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Thread: Sigh... Isengard is so unbalanced

  1. #41

    Default Re: Sigh... Isengard is so unbalanced

    Quote Originally Posted by Vifarc View Post
    Problem while playing Lorien, is that the time we are able becoming a serious force, Isengard has destroyed Rohan, Mordor has destroyed Gondor, Easterlings has destroyed Winemakers, Thranduil has betrayed and attacks Dale. So Lorien is alone against giants Isengard Mordor Easterlings, and slowly Lorien desappear.
    I recently played a Lórien campaign and a lot of what you said did not happen. In my campaigns:
    60% of the time Rohan stomps Isengard.
    Never saw any faction betray another, ever. The weirdest behaviors of AI i've ever seen were Lórien allying with Dol Guldur(when not at war) in my Khazad-dûm campaign and Rhûn allying with Dorwinion in my Angmar campaign.
    Rhûn indeed destroys Dorwinion, aways(except in my Angmar campaign, see above).
    Gondor and Mordor stays on a stalemate until Dol Amroth starts to fall.

    How did your campaign go so badly? At turn 6 i gathered every single unit at my disposal with Celeborn and i took Dol Guldur by turn 13. Then i started taking their remaining settlements 1 by 1 and pushing them east until i bordered Woodland Realm to the north and Mordor to the south. After that i stopped expand and let them remain to rebuild my economy and then after their repeatedly attempts at taking the village south of Dol Guldur i decided to finish them for good. Then i marched to Mordor and now i'm at turn 130 and took Cirith Ungol, Black Gate, the fortress north and the town east of Cirith Ungol.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Sigh... Isengard is so unbalanced

    Quote Originally Posted by Goat rider View Post
    I played Lórien campaigns:
    At turn 6 i gathered every single unit at my disposal with Celeborn and i took Dol Guldur by turn 13.
    Yeah, now I feel Lorien is not for the cool players, but for those who rush the more. Rush-rush-rush. I feel rushing taking DolGuldur at turn 50, but as I don't like rushing, I don't rush enough... And as the devs balance the game against you, it's even far worst against others who don't rush enough as the anti-rush units live longer and take more settlements.

    Then i started taking their remaining settlements 1 by 1 and i bordered Mordor to the south. After that i stopped expand, to rebuild my economy, and then i finish them for good. At turn 130 took Cirith Ungol, Black Gate, the fortress north and the town east of Cirith Ungol.
    The very few times I'm able to win, it's rather by turn like 325...

    60% of the time Rohan stomps Isengard. Never saw any faction betray another, ever. Gondor and Mordor stays on a stalemate until Dol Amroth starts to fall.
    So I've no luck with Isengard, which makes me to lose the campaign, as I can't stand fighting against 3 giants.
    Threanduils betrays for he is bored having no longer enemies, so he finally attacks the weaker neighbourg, Dale already fighting against Easterlings. I allied with Dale too, and I choose to keep allied with them. I don't keep allying with bully elves.
    As I don't rush enough, I can't save Gondor.
    Last edited by Vifarc; September 12, 2018 at 10:03 AM.
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  3. #43

    Default Re: Sigh... Isengard is so unbalanced

    Quote Originally Posted by Vifarc View Post
    Yeah, now I feel Lorien is not for the cool players, but for those who rush the more. Rush-rush-rush. I feel rushing taking DolGuldur at turn 50, but as I don't like rushing, I don't rush enough... And as the devs balance the game against you, it's even far worst against others who don't rush enough as the anti-rush units live longer and take more settlements.
    That's on you then not the Mod. They balance things based on pople who don't roleplay and possible rushers of course. As they should. What do you think would happen if they balanced around roleplayers and someone decided to use their faction leaders or rush? It would be a snooze fest.
    Roleplaying is meant to be a additional challenge you put on yourself not a default. Roleplayers, as far as i'm aware, are the minority. We can see this by reading the comments of this forum and by Galu's tips and difficulties on his faction overviews where he almost aways suggest "rushing"(why would he do that if the majority were against rushing, a.k.a. roleplayers?).

    And why the patronizing comment about the game not being for the "cool players"? You were the one who decided to hamper yourself on purpose. Just because everyone else don't doesn't mean they are not "cool".

    Chillax dude.
    Last edited by Goat rider; September 12, 2018 at 10:29 AM.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Sigh... Isengard is so unbalanced

    Quote Originally Posted by Vifarc View Post
    Problem while playing Lorien, is that the time we are able becoming a serious force, Isengard has destroyed Rohan, Mordor has destroyed Gondor, Easterlings has destroyed Winemakers, Thranduil has betrayed and attacks Dale. So Lorien is alone against giants Isengard Mordor Easterlings, and slowly Lorien desappear.
    Can you upload your save file? That sounds epic.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Sigh... Isengard is so unbalanced

    Not sure if this is necro, but I have recently been playing an isengard campaign until the destruction of Rohan and fairly recently won a Lorien campaign. I find that the key to success is to be aggressive. This doesn´t neccesarily mean blizzing but rather taking action against the enemy instead of having them come to you. Divide and conquer basically. In my Isengard campaign, I quickly rushed down the rebel settlements in the vicinity and moved my troops towards the forts. A great early game advantage of isengard is that you can have nearly an entire stack upkeep free and just take them out whenever you need assistance against a large enemy army. Anyway, turn 6 something, Rohan attacked, or perhaps I attacked them laying siege to foldbburg. I don´t really remember since the first 8 or so turns were played a year ago. a battle ensued anyway on the very next turn and I crushed the fairly sizeable Rohan force. I did not let Rohan recover from this loss and pressed the attack, taking my army and hitting smaller rohan armies while simultaneously recruiting as much as I can get my hands on nad placing them in the upkeep free zones. I basically ignored all the AP units and basically spammed spears and berzerkers because those are what´s going to be good against Rohan. My army lead by Lurtz (Saruman was pinned in Foldburg and Ugluk in some previously rebel town to keep order) was fairly small and I was forced to pull back in the face of a large Rohan army approaching. They laid siege to foldburg but I pulled out my reserves from the forts and crushed them, and then I just brought that army to the hornburg, attacked the army standing outside it, sallying the defenders forth and slaughtered them all so that the fortress was empied and I could occupy it without a battle. this was turn 10 or something. At this point my army was fairly large and all I needed to do was to advance while engaging all the Rohan armies, not letting them merge into lare stacks that could threaten me. At some point enedwaith decided to attack and I gathered some reserves with a general and relieved the siege and placed a garrison of mostly cheap troops there. For the rest of the rohan conquest, they could not advance, regularly siegeing but failing to take the settlement because enedwaith is really bad at sieging since they mostly have missiles. The only army Rohan managed to form worthy of stopping my advance was holed up in Edoras, but they were too many for one stack and spread over two instead, which allowed me to attack the outer army again, getting me a bridge battle where one of the armies was trapped across the bridge and the other attacked from my side, so I barricaded the bridge with my half orc spears and placed my archers in a position to mow down the incoming attack on the bridge and moved the rest of my army to take down the Rohan reinforcements. Despite their numbers Rohan got absolutely wrecked by the half orcs and archers at the bridge and one Rohan army was not enough to stop the rest of my forces due to my tactical manouvering and army composition which countered cavalry. After edoras, the only remaining threat was the doomstack that spawned with some elite units. I garrisoned everything in Edoras preparing for a difficult siege, but walked north towards another town I conquered. At this point I was bringing a second stack towards the field, and I set everything up to trap the army inside the settlement once they captured it, laying siege to it immidiately, but the army fled instead, allowing me to just casually merge my forces together into two stacks and then I could challenge the army at the next town and basically do hammer and anvil with an AI teammate, except the AI had no intention of performing the role of the hammer like I wanted but it wasn´t needed as I won anyway with the AI only making the last stages of the battle less costly. At this point rohan proved no more challenge. Enedwaith managed to get an army to a small town in the south, think it might be bregnas, and captured it, but the other garrison held firm and after Rohan got destroyed, I´m preparing to start pushing them back, though I hate fighting open battles against them. That´s as far as I have come, turn 40 something.

    Lorien campaign was a bit similar but more difficult requiring a lot of kiting with archers and being really careful with the lives of your elves.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Sigh... Isengard is so unbalanced

    Don't know what all the fuss is about. The campaigns are mostly easy. Some are tougher when you fight on multiple fronts but it's really not too much trouble if you know what you're doing. I just won an Ar-Adunaim very hard campaign where I sailed to Angmar and made Carn Dum my capital. Now that was quite a challenge. Anyway you need to keep some things in mind when playing...

    The AI ONLY attacks towns it borders (unless scripted like Ar-Adunaim attack Mithlond)
    This is a fact. Use it wisely to create chokepoints. In many campaigns you tried holding on to Derwath while enemies were coming from all sides - that's mandess! Blitzkrieging Foldburg, on the other hand, would allow you to bottleneck all Rohan armies. With bottleneck towns you can exploit Armory buildings to get free troops every time they attack you. You can also use the bridges which in a way act like towns...

    Bridges are your friends
    Bridges are amazing because the AI goes herpa derpa on them. It always just charges its entire force across the bridge. Some fridges and fords are better than the others but in general they are very easy to hold since you can exploit your own pikemen, archers, and ballistas/catapults to the maximum extent. If you have stakes you can also have a laugh as their entire army just suicides in some cases.

    Don't bite off more than you can chew
    When you're weak early on and enemies are left and right you must pick your battles. You know that it's only a matter of time before both Enedwaith or Rohan declare jihad against you so you have to get a plan of stopping them. For example you can try bottlenecking Rohan at Foldburg. Another idea is to abuse allies by giving settlements away which you can't defend - e.g. blitzkrieg Foldburg and then trade it in to Dol Amroth for an alliance. Now Rohan can't attack you since it's not your neighbour anymore, Dol Amroth won't attack you since they're at war with 3 factions, and Rohan can't attack Dol Amroth because it would break its alliance with Gondor (or make Gondor betray Dol Amroth lol that would be funny). Cavalry really aren't good at sieging towns especially if you get a lot spearmen defending them. You can also ally with Rohan since allying with Enedwaith is tough due to their war with Dunland... later on you can of course stab them in the back once your position in Enedwaith is secure.

    Learn to win against the odds
    You must be able to win fights manually. Rohan mostly uses cavalry - a good formation against that is to form a square of spears and to avoid offensive attacks against them on the field so that they're the ones who are forced to attack you. Cavalry units will die even to trash spears and trash dunnish pikemen if they can't outflank them (which I believe are the worst pikemen in the mod even being worse than farmhands).

    I haven't played Isengard myself. Their army seems really boring to me and their campaing doesn't have that much wiggle room it seems. In 2.2 I won with Dorwinion, Angmar, and Moria Orcs. In 3.0 I've won with Bree and with the Ar-Adunaim. The Angmar orc campaing was also very hard especially since I made a rule for myself banning all humans and sent Aganduar, that wraith dude, and the Rhudaur Chief to suicide attacks and refused to train Rhudaur troops... Though eventually I allowed all Rhudaur based stacks once I almost won becaue that Rhudaur Chief survived like 10 suicide attacks (probably because he had archer bodyguards) and he deserved it.

  7. #47
    Vifarc's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Sigh... Isengard is so unbalanced

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthillidan View Post
    fairly recently won a Lorien campaign. I find that the key to success is to be aggressive. This doesn´t neccesarily mean blizzing but rather taking action against the enemy instead of having them come to you. Divide and conquer basically.
    difficult requiring a lot of kiting with archers and being really careful with the lives of your elves.
    So how do you plan your economy? fielding an elf army is very expensive, so I buy the more buildings each turn, and do what I can with my small army. I plan for the future. The only time I suceeded in so many campaigns tried, I could muster a very nice army of elites, but it was VERY long and though doing this (I won by turn 350 IIRC).
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  8. #48

    Default Re: Sigh... Isengard is so unbalanced

    Quote Originally Posted by Vifarc View Post
    So how do you plan your economy? fielding an elf army is very expensive, so I buy the more buildings each turn, and do what I can with my small army. I plan for the future. The only time I suceeded in so many campaigns tried, I could muster a very nice army of elites, but it was VERY long and though doing this (I won by turn 350 IIRC).
    I won by turn 86. It was some time ago so I don´t remember exactly how it happened, but I think I mostly constructed buildings if they actually provided enough benefit to be worth it while fielding as big an army I could afford and had the manpower for. it´s easy to see how much money a building will generate by going in to settlement details. I expanded to increase my income. This was 2.2 and I quickly took Dol Guldur and somehow dealt with the doomstack, and that gave me the boost to wipe out the rest of Mirwood and then go south and take Mordor. the trick is to cram as much from your units as possible. your strength is your archers, so I avoided melee combat whenever I could and sometimes found myself full on kiting the enemy. Every battle you fight against difficult odds and still have to come out on top with barely any casulties. Haldir and Celeborn carried a lot of the burden and with those two, I could often find ways to defeat foes of far superior strength.

    I also had to pick my battles. The AI is stupid enough not to always group up its units and that´s when you strike, divide and conquer, fighting for numbers control first and settlements second.

  9. #49
    Vifarc's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Sigh... Isengard is so unbalanced

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthillidan View Post
    I won by turn 86. see how much money a building will generate. I expanded to increase my income.
    Yes, but that's sad there are so beautifull units and we will barely use them. That's part why I plan for a long campaign, but that's quite impossible.
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