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Thread: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

  1. #1
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    Rise of Three Kingdoms Frequently Asked Questions





    Q: What is this mod about?
    A: This mod takes place in China during the Three Kingdoms period, a celebrated era of civil war and heroes, with our mod starting in the winter of 194 CE.

    Q: Is this mod based on the Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel by Luo Guanzhong?
    A: No. this mod, while incorporating a few minor elements of the novel, is mostly based on the historical records of the period. Such sources are Sanguozhi ("Records of Three Kingdoms") by Chen Shou, Zizhitongjian ("Comprehensive Mirror for Aid in Government") by Sima Guang, Sanguozhizhu by Pei Songzhi, and the various works of Rafe de Crespigny (who is currently working with CA on their upcoming Three Kingdoms title).

    Q: Is this Dynasty Warriors for Total War?
    A: No. Dynasty Warriors, while well-known to the general public, is based on the novel and extremely fictitious. No "one-man armies" in this mod.

    Q: Why the 194 start date? Why not earlier or later?
    A: This date is when things really began to get shaken up and the various warlords firmly established themselves as independent regional leaders. Prior to this, the Han dynasty was still recognized as the ruling body of the land and actions were taken on their behalf (Yellow Turban Rebellion, Anti-Dong Zhuo coalition, etc.). At this date it is essentially a full-fledged civil war, despite various leaders still conducting themselves for the Han Emperor.

    Q: What difficulty is recommended for this mod?
    A: We don't have a recommended difficulty setting, although Hard/Hard difficulty can be where you can start and adjust as necessary.

    Q: My trade income suddenly dropped a lot. What happened?
    A: Trade works on the principle of diminished returns and depends on the specific settlement. Starting at the city level, trade income will start to drop off; Fortified Passes, Strategic Towns, Towns, and Large Towns are not affected by this. The reason for this is because income will simply be too ridiculously high unless curbed a bit. Making trade agreements with other factions, and also upgrading roads, markets, ports, and any temples that increase trade income, are the best ways to keep trade income as high as possible.

    Q: Why isn't {insert character} in the mod?
    A: While some liberties were taken with character ages for gameplay purposes, we have tried to stay as true to history as possible. If a specific character is not in the mod, it is more than likely because he was historically dead, was not born when the mod starts, or is the least significant of their siblings and can't fit on the family tree.

    Q: How historically accurate are the weapons and armor?
    A: I would say, when taking everything together, we are (with v2.0) about 95% accurate. While there is a lot of information on the armaments of Three Kingdoms period soldiery, it is impossible to know exactly what happened, who wore what and when exactly it was worn during the nearly 100 years of civil war nearly 2000 years ago in ancient China.

    Q: Why don't all factions have different looking units? Why do they look the same between factions?
    A: Remember that we're talking about a single nation in the midst of a civil war. While there are obviously regional differences in culture, heritage, and construction of armaments, things are not so dissimilar between the nation as a whole. As such, we won't just "make up" new units/visuals just for the sake of there being a visual difference. In the mod unique faction units and bodyguards, depending on the region the faction hails from, will have unique looks.

    Q: What factions have special missions?
    A: The Cao clan, Sun clan, Liu clan and Yuan clan all have special missions when controlled by a human player. The missions, in essence, represent the factions rise to power and establishment as one of the three kingdoms that gave the era its name.

    Q: Why was Han Xuan replaced with Zhang Xian?
    A: Han Xuan was a leftover from the original RTW mod and, up until recently, there was really no other option for a leader in the Jingnan region, as there aren't any definitive records as to who controlled the Jingnan region in late 194/195. Previously the Jingnan faction was a "union" of the four commanderies of southern Jing Province (Changsha, Wuling, Lingling and Guiyang). This is an ahistorical faction, for two reasons: 1) The four commanderies were never in a union and all four were independent of one another (having prior been vassals of Liu Biao) and, 2) We only know that Han Xuan and the other three Administrators were in power in 208 (after Liu Biao's death and during Liu Bei's conquest of southern Jing province after the Battle of Red Cliffs). So while they were probably in power at least a couple years before 208, maybe as early as 200, that is still a ways off from our 194 start date. Leadership of Jingnan, therefore, has been passed to a man named Zhang Xian. He was a popular vassal of Liu Biao, ruling Changsha, Guiyang and Lingling (not 100% sure about Wuling), but rebelled against him in 198. We can assume he was in command of the region before 198. So even if it was 197 or 196, that is still way closer to our winter 194 start date than Han Xuan and company (minimum of 200). Zhang Xian was attacked by Liu Biao in 200 and died during a siege, then his son took over and was defeated by Liu Biao. It was then, or at least a few years later, that Han Xuan and the other three Administrators were given command of the four southern commanderies. I think this change in leadership would be more historical because 1) Even if not technically at 194 start date, is at least within 2.5 years of it and; 2) Jingnan was historically unified under a single leader with Zhang Xian, unlike with our old Jingnan faction under Han Xuan.

    Q: Why were Liu Yao, Yan Baihu and Wang Lang split into separate factions?
    A: While Liu Yao, Yan Baihu and Wang Lang all fought against Sun Ce around the same time, they were not a unified force. Liu Yao allied himself to Yan Baihu, while the latter was allied to both Liu Yao and Wang Lang. They were all independent leaders, with their own independent domains and vassals, who just so happened to have a common enemy in Sun Ce. As such, Yan Baihu and Wang Lang were broken off from the Yangzhou faction and made independent factions.

    Q: Why were Ma Teng and Han Sui split into separate factions?
    A: The Xiliang faction was a sort of "union" of Ma Teng and Han Sui. However this was historically incorrect and was in need of changing. While Ma Teng and Han Sui were allied together and fought together at different times (against common foes), they were independent of one another and fought some rather bloody wars against each other (with many family members killed on both sides). Not only that, but the original placement of the Xiliang faction was only partially correct. Wuwei was not under either Han Sui or Ma Teng's control in 194. In addition to that, Ma Teng was in control of territory further south (Longxi, Wudu) than previously, while Han Sui controlled much of what the old Xiliang faction had (Jincheng, Xiping).

    Q: Why are there some special character models (ie; Ma Chao, Guan Yu, etc.) from Dynasty Warriors?
    A: The simple answer is recognition. Guan Yu, for example, is culturally recognized as having a long beautiful beard, wielding a guandao, and donning green attire. Plus they look better than what I can make from scratch.

    Q: What is the Unaligned faction in the campaign?
    A: They represent characters who were not attached to specific factions on our start date. What they are meant for is bribing, so that you can add another general and/or administrator to your faction's ranks.

    Q: A faction was defeated and some of their generals turned rebel, but I can't bribe them to join me. What gives?
    A: When a general first joins the rebels (due to their faction being destroyed), they will have a high-ish Fealty trait (because they were just a member of a faction) and will either always refuse or the price is simply too high for you to afford. Wait a few turns, at least 1-2, and allow that Fealty trait to lower down a bit (have your diplomat keep tabs on their loyalty pips). With the Fealty trait down low and enough funds, you should be able to bribe them. Remember, as in vanilla, all generals and units in a stack affect the total cost to bribe.

    Q: Why are there a bunch of rebel stacks (Wuhuan, Xiongnu, Qiang, etc.) in the periphery regions?
    A: These large rebel stacks represent the "barbarian" peoples that warred with the Chinese before, during, and well after the Three Kingdoms period. Specifically they are represented by unique units and characters depending on the tribe/people being represented. In this mod the "barbarian" peoples we have represented via rebels are the Xiongnu, Wuhuan, Qiang, and Di. The Shanyue and Xianbei are represented by their own, unique factions.

    Q: What is better, crossbows or bows?
    A: Depends on what you want. Bows typically have longer range and can affect an area, while crossbows do more damage and pierce armor. Also, there are unique bow and crossbow units for a few factions.

    Q: Why don't cavalry smash everything they charge into?
    A: The stirrup wasn't invented yet, meaning ancient Chinese cavalry did not have the kinetic energy of a feudal European knight (stirrup and lance). While armored cavalry (used as shock) developed late in the period, for the most part cavalry were only really used for flanking attacks, skirmishing, recon, chasing down fleeing enemies, and engaging other cavalry - not for massed charges into enemy lines.

    Q: Why are polearms so advantageous against cavalry in melee?
    A: The ji halberd was a great, all-around versatile and effective weapon. It was especially good against cavalry; cavalry who, mind you, were disadvantaged against polearms in close quarters. So, while halberdiers will take some losses during the initial impact of a charge, they will usually win a melee with cavalry. On that note, cavalry should not sit and engage in melee against weapons specifically designed to counter cavalry (halberds, spears, pikes).

    Q: I completed a mission but I can't get the next one. What gives?
    A: But did you complete the mission? Each mission given will have text giving you background and explaining what is going on, and then there will be objectives listed. They can be taking and holding specific settlements or destroying specific factions or both. Also some missions will state that after completing it, you will have to wait X number of turns before the next mission is given. All of the missions work. Ensure that you read the text carefully and understand the objectives you have to meet to complete the mission when the mission is given.

    Q: Why continue to make this mod when CA has a Three Kingdoms title coming out in 2019?
    A: I can guarantee I know Three Kingdoms history better than anyone working at CA. It has been my passion for twenty years and being able to put the Three Kingdoms into Total War has been my pleasure. Plus this mod is awesome and is worth developing. I'm not going to say anything bad about CA... besides, I can't judge their representation of the Three Kingdoms or how good/bad their game is until it actually comes out.
    Last edited by Seether; March 06, 2019 at 09:55 AM.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
    A Wolf Among Sheep: A Rise of Three Kingdoms AAR

  2. #2

    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    Quick question, is there any plans to add events that turn the more famous generals of the era to your side when playing as Imperial Han, example: Conquer 10 (15?) regions and ssome generals from other factions join you such as Ma Chao or something? No worries if not just thought it could be a neat Eventual addition should the modders will it.

  3. #3
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    No plans to do so, although it could be added as an optional script in the future.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
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  4. #4

    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    Hey, are you supposed to not be able to upgrade settlements in this mod? Because I have plenty of towns that should be able to upgrade to the next tier. Unless the requirements are a lot higher in this mod? Also, I'm not using a 2.1 campaign but the update before that since I was mid campaign, not sure if that was changed. 2.01 or something.

  5. #5
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    There are population thresholds that must be reached before you can upgrade. In the settlement panel, hovering your cursor over the population will tell you at what population you can upgrade.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
    A Wolf Among Sheep: A Rise of Three Kingdoms AAR

  6. #6

    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    Thanks, is that a thing in vanilla med 2? I guess I never noticed it. Are the population thresholds higher in the mod then? Probably a good thing anyway, having a ton of fun in a Sun campaign and have just started to see some settlements grow into full cities. Most of Yan province soon will be cities in my game and I should be able to just pump heavy troops and pikemen all day then.

  7. #7
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    Yes, it is a vanilla thing. And while I don't remember what the population thresholds are in vanilla, I do believe that this mod has higher thresholds.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
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  8. #8

    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    I wasn't sure if this was worthy of a new thread so I guess I'll just post this here, where does the music for this mod come from? Particularly the battle music.

  9. #9
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    I don’t recall where most of it comes from (came from original RTW port), but I do know music from the ‘White Vengeance’ soundtrack is used.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
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  10. #10

    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    What is the reasoning for dropping out the concept of different regional troops that the previous versions had?
    Since now the regular units are all Han troops, where before was depending on the region of the settlement.

  11. #11
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    While the regional recruitment offered unit stat variations between regions, the issue with it was that you couldn’t replenish troop numbers when in a different region. So if you were in Jingzhou and had Jingzhou troops, went campaigning in neighboring Jiangdong and captured settlements, you couldn’t replenish those Jingzhou troops at all. I really liked the idea of the regional troops, but it was impractical when attacking neighboring settlements that were in a different region, let alone conducting far-reaching campaigns.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
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  12. #12

    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    I like slow paced campaigns, that's why i like that system. Having to travel back those troops to replenish and create new regional forces in the new conquered settlements.
    But i understand the feeling. I tought that the reasoning for taking down that way of recruiting troops was because of the AI not being able to comprehend where to replenish the troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seether View Post
    While the regional recruitment offered unit stat variations between regions, the issue with it was that you couldn’t replenish troop numbers when in a different region. So if you were in Jingzhou and had Jingzhou troops, went campaigning in neighboring Jiangdong and captured settlements, you couldn’t replenish those Jingzhou troops at all. I really liked the idea of the regional troops, but it was impractical when attacking neighboring settlements that were in a different region, let alone conducting far-reaching campaigns.

  13. #13
    MilesNDavis's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    It was also not really accurate, historically. As said before, this is a single country in a massive civil war. For the most part, bar the extreme north and south, the culture and people are pretty much identical to each other- think of it like the USA. Massive lands masses, with many different internal states, but all rather (somewhat lol) unified under one banner.

    If we're getting into personal thoughts on it: I love it, the old system was initially cool, but got annoying for me after a while.

  14. #14

    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    Is there a purpose for why the trade resources that merchants can go being so worthless?
    It really makes you think why there is merchants in the mod at all if they give you so little.

  15. #15
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    That’s already been addressed for the 2.2 Patch - all resources will have a significant increase in value.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
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  16. #16

    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    Do you intend to add more historical missions to other factions?
    I think that it's already ok as it is with the three main factions.

  17. #17
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    The Yuan Clan will probably get missions, but outside of them we don't plan on doing it for any other faction.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
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  18. #18

    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    why I can only recruit 1 diplomat agent ?

  19. #19
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    Quote Originally Posted by vodangvn1 View Post
    why I can only recruit 1 diplomat agent ?
    You need to construct a higher tier Administrative Agency building (Taishou Fu, Cishi Fu, etc.) to be able to have more than 1 diplomat.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
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  20. #20
    Rhodri the Great's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: [三国上] Rise of Three Kingdoms F.A.Q.

    Is it possible for you to make two different update options? Like one option that includes older patches and one for only the new patch. It is kind of frustrating to download same things twice espacially when you have really slow internet connection.

    Also, thanks for the great work as always.

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