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Thread: Elite hoplite unit more susceptible to ranged damage?

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  1. #1

    Default Elite hoplite unit more susceptible to ranged damage?

    In my Sparta campaign I've been noticing that my 300 elite unit gets brutalized by ranged units to the point where I win battles with every other unit taking ~10% damage while the elite unit takes like 50% damage.

    I think the reason is probably because the ranged units always focus on the elite unit. But furthermore, (I have no concrete evidence for this) it feels like the elite unit actually takes more ranged damage somehow. They really drop fast to the focus ranged fire whereas other homoi units almost take no damage from them.

    I would appreciate your insight on this!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Elite hoplite unit more susceptible to ranged damage?

    No elite units are not more susceptible to damage but for ranged combat few things matter.
    1) terrain, There are terrain types that give bonus to ranged units (it is noted in the terrain description on the map with coloured indications)
    2) Angle of attack (obviously you already know this. An attack from behind will obliterate almost any unit with 2-3 hits)
    3) Faction and type of battle (Defenders during siege or certain elite ranged units or factions. Also Sparta is penalized more than averege factions during sieges due to its well know ineffectiveness as a besieging force)
    4)Omens give general attack and defense bonuses or malus (Psychological reasons afecting efficiency of armies).
    5) Elite - heavy units as heavier and cannot chase or reach fast-raged units taknig more casualties as an outcome

    Generally I have heard observations varying greatly from "hoplites are tanks" to "they drop like flies" so I think that with my experience all the above factors can give a widely different outcome. If 2 same armies clash in different "dates" or different place you get different outcomes

    As a final remark I would say that there is not a clear view among historians conserning ranged unit effectiveness on hoplites. From mentions of "tank hoplites" in Marathon battle were Athenians were marching under a shower od arrows (or the same in Thermopylae) to "weak hoplitic defense" in Thucididis for example during Peloponnesian war were Iphicratean peltasts defeated elite Spartans and the same in Sfacteria were the Spartan prisoners complaining about their dishonorable way they were defeated by saying "The arrow cannot distinguish the brave from the coward"
    We tried to be somewhere in between

    P.S For the homioi there might be some other explanation as well. To represent their will to fight even wounded we increased the health a bit. So it is not that they do not take damage but due to game mechanics they add up damage up to a certain point until they start to drop. (300 are homioi though with the same hp. So in your case is probably fire consentration)
    Last edited by Phalangitis; July 08, 2018 at 09:55 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Elite hoplite unit more susceptible to ranged damage?

    I actually notice something similar when playing as Athens or Boeotia that my larger unit tends to take more casualties.
    It does really seem that the AI is focusing the unit and it doesn't take too many engagements for that elite 300 unit to be at 160 just like the others...While my other units of 160 are at full strength maybe down to 120-130sh.

    Now I'm not complaining about the AI in this matter because often my elite unit is on the right or left flank and I feel like in real life they would be targeted as well.
    When I read or listen to ancient literature I am often surprised how key figures can be killed in battle despite relatively light casualties overall.

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