[Experimental Battle Pack] - New stat and combat system (09.03.2018)

[ivanpera]

I quickly tried this pack with the latest beta today. For the most part it seems to work ok. I've noticed that formation behavior seems a little changed (phalanxes loks less static to me) and, even though I'm not sure of that, ranged units (expecially low tier ones) seems weaker.
The spirit of the pack is still there though, if someone else was worried about that. The removal of spaghetti lines also makes spread out barbarians scarier d:

It seems to me that derpy animations with soldiers warping or entering enemy formations are more frequent thoug.
Can someone confirm what I observed?

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I quickly tried this pack with the latest beta today. For the most part it seems to work ok. I've noticed that formation behavior seems a little changed (phalanxes loks less static to me) and, even though I'm not sure of that, ranged units (expecially low tier ones) seems weaker.
The spirit of the pack is still there though, if someone else was worried about that. The removal of spaghetti lines also makes spread out barbarians scarier d:

It seems to me that derpy animations with soldiers warping or entering enemy formations are more frequent thoug.
Can someone confirm what I observed?

Since it's not updated yet, you'll surely find issues.

[ivanpera]

Since it's not updated yet, you'll surely find issues.

No doubt about that, I was just trying to point out stuff to KAM to make his life easier

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

No doubt about that, I was just trying to point out stuff to KAM to make his life easier

No problem. I just wanted to make sure you're aware.

[CadetNewb]

- and, even though I'm not sure of that, ranged units (expecially low tier ones) seems weaker.

I mentioned this before too. It's less noticeable with elite ranged units, but really stands out with the low tier skirmishers. Cretans and Gastraphetes are still awesome though. Anyone else look at those naked spear guys killing Principes yet? I don't exactly blame folks for not wanting to, but come on guys, the genitals aren't even rendered!

[Tiny]

I did some further testing with the Gaisatoi (Naked Spears), and it really isn't encouraging I'm afraid.

Against Hastati, they win handily. I mean, it's kinda hopeless for them. Still, the Hastati do some damage, so they're not totally useless.

Against Principes, if the Spears do not charge them, they will do heavy damage, and it seems the fight is up in the air. It's a man-to-man fight much of the time. If they get a counter charge in though? Decisive victory for the spears.

Against Triarii...well, if the Triarii get the charge, they will do very well against them. If they charge one another, it's totally up in the air. Either could win.

Long story short, an armor-less, low-cost unit can go toe-to-toe and win against a diverse Roman Polybian army. They have expert charge defense, and can perform well against melee cavalry. They have high morale and can maintain a battle line. Their only weakness is to missiles, and it's pronounced. They will get decimated by a missile heavy force...something the Romans aren't generally suited to.

Spam the Gaisatoi, and you will do very well with a cheap and highly adaptable army. It can take on some of the best heavy infantry early-mid game, though I wouldn't try this against Hoplites lol. You'll need to outmaneuver those killing machines.

And I've done all of this with the slower version.

[KAM 2150]

I did some further testing with the Gaisatoi (Naked Spears), and it really isn't encouraging I'm afraid.

Against Hastati, they win handily. I mean, it's kinda hopeless for them. Still, the Hastati do some damage, so they're not totally useless.

Against Principes, if the Spears do not charge them, they will do heavy damage, and it seems the fight is up in the air. It's a man-to-man fight much of the time. If they get a counter charge in though? Decisive victory for the spears.

Against Triarii...well, if the Triarii get the charge, they will do very well against them. If they charge one another, it's totally up in the air. Either could win.

Long story short, an armor-less, low-cost unit can go toe-to-toe and win against a diverse Roman Polybian army. They have expert charge defense, and can perform well against melee cavalry. They have high morale and can maintain a battle line. Their only weakness is to missiles, and it's pronounced. They will get decimated by a missile heavy force...something the Romans aren't generally suited to.

Spam the Gaisatoi, and you will do very well with a cheap and highly adaptable army. It can take on some of the best heavy infantry early-mid game, though I wouldn't try this against Hoplites lol. You'll need to outmaneuver those killing machines.

And I've done all of this with the slower version.

This is actually not a big issue and easy to sort out.

Basically it comes from two points:
-their cost is too low, being fantaic unit, their price should be equal to most expensive infantry units of other factions
-they retained their bonus vs infantry from base DeI where tier 5 units (limited to few units that are light but elite units so they trade armour for damage)

Both can and will be easily fixed. Overall I do want them to be able to go toe to toe vs Principes or at least cause large casualties to them due to not being subject to rout that easily. What I would do is to increase their price by x3, increase their morale and take away bonus vs infantry.

[Tiny]

This is actually not a big issue and easy to sort out.

Basically it comes from two points:
-their cost is too low, being fantaic unit, their price should be equal to most expensive infantry units of other factions
-they retained their bonus vs infantry from base DeI where tier 5 units (limited to few units that are light but elite units so they trade armour for damage)

Both can and will be easily fixed. Overall I do want them to be able to go toe to toe vs Principes or at least cause large casualties to them due to not being subject to rout that easily. What I would do is to increase their price by x3, increase their morale and take away bonus vs infantry.

I'll admit I do not remember their cost precisely, so I could have exaggerated their spammability. Figured their lack of armor would be a big part if it.

In any case, I think it has to do with the bonus versus infantry, because 7 attack and 11 defense wouldn't be so decisive on its own, given the fights I've seen between different tier units. How much power does bonus vs infantry transfer into in terms of melee attack and defense?

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Just a reminder guys. This isn't updated yet. In case you're suing it with the beta.

[Tiny]

No beta for me! Waiting for full release just for convenience sake.

Does the new beta heavily affect combat? Didn't see anything about it in the patchnotes.

[KAM 2150]

I think they get +1 or +2 to melee attack and damage but base damage of tier 5 weapon is also above normal.

[Tiny]

I think they get +1 or +2 to melee attack and damage but base damage of tier 5 weapon is also above normal.

All the more reason they do so well against armored units. The picture is starting to become very clear.

[CadetNewb]

You're probably busy as hell with the new DLC and Family Tree stuff, but how's this play with them? Do they get along? I'm hesitating to try out the family tree beta because I actually like the direction of this battle pack by quite a bit.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

You're probably busy as hell with the new DLC and Family Tree stuff, but how's this play with them? Do they get along? I'm hesitating to try out the family tree beta because I actually like the direction of this battle pack by quite a bit.

It's not updated to the latest beta. Now how it could play with it ? I'm not sure since I haven't tested it yet.

[CadetNewb]

Bummer, but thanks for the heads up. I just hope KAM managed to get some useful data off of this.

[KAM 2150]

I am just waiting a bit for closer release date so that way I hope we will not have any updates. Luckily thanks to my new stat formulas it is very easy to update those mods.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Υοu crazy scientist.

[ryancup123]

Is this going to be added to the main DEI in 1.3?

[Dardo21]

Parts of it atleast, it needs to be updated first, and possibly additionally tested.

[SacredBoltgun]

Gonna give it a try with a new Macedon or Ptolemaic start