[Experimental Battle Pack] - New stat and combat system (09.03.2018)

[Irishmafia2020]

Thanks for including a slower combat version!

[KAM 2150]

Probably they have only daggers assigned hence they don't have much charge bonus, plus they are not even riding war horses so charge for them would end badly

Weapon damage will stay as it is because the game works in a bit odd way when it comes to balance and damage. Which is why I've added slower combat version that buffs armour, it is on the bottom of the main post.

Overall, battles can't take too long time, for example if regular 20v20 battles takes on average 20-30 minutes, it is almost like playing on a cheat mode because AI can't handle it.

[Rendon]

Apologies in advance if this is nitpicking, but I'm a bit confused as to how unit speed is determined? For example, Royal Peltast speed should probably be 3 in accordance with similarly equipped elite medium infantry like the Pergamene Elite Peltasts which are faster than them. That one may be an oversight. However, fully Armored Cataphracts being the same speed as unarmored heavy cavalry...which are the same speed as medium skirmishing cavalry. It seems most cavalry are set at either speed 8 or speed 10. Or super heavy Royal Spartan Hoplites moving at the same speed as Thureos wielding swordsmen in cloth tunics. Shouldn't there be a middle ground here?

[KAM 2150]

No because these speeds add nothing to gameplay and only add bugs. There are no gameplay benefits if one unit moves at a speed of 2.3 and other at 2.6 outside of them not marching in good order.

For cataphracts it looks a bit odd but keep in mind they tire faster so eventually they move slower, they just dont bug in melee early on and AI will not suicide it against your medium cav. First version had ultra heavy cav at speed 5, heavy at 6, medium 7, light at 8, while all had higher charge speed but like I explained, it bugged heavy cav disengaging as game enginge gives chasing unit infinite charge bonus as long as they are moving.

As for Royal Peltats yes, I will need to change their speed entry. There are defo much more of them so it will take time to fix.

[gary]

Excellent mate I have just started using this mod... will follow this with interest. well done.

[KAM 2150]

Thanks I will also add a version without unit speed changes.

[ostendadler]

Kam how many of those experimental packages have you produced over the years ?

I still remember the days where you had rollo from viking as your avatar. Times zooms past us ...

[leonardusius]

Yea, but still many weapons are bellow HP of 55 and armor value of naked skin is 8 ?! Cloth is even better of 16. Also I don't know why every single mod till now is depicting blocking chance of shields so low. I use my own mod for personal use and scutum is always at 80%, not 50-60%. Do you ever handled a real scutum ? Scutum was one of the biggest shield there. It's all about surface of deflection. Little shields have 30% in mods but are 1/4 in real surface.
Another thing remarked is heavy infantry weight is 170 and very light cavalry is 200. That's too unrealistic by far. Your goal to make charge impact more realistic than in vanilla steamroller (which historically/realistic; I mean horses charge completely mowing down an entire unit) is welcomed/needed. Also guys recovering from an impact in knockdown_getting_up_delay_max =3 is a joke. I understand your issue here too, but it's unrealistic. A guy crashed by a charging horse will stand up in minimum minimorum of 10 seconds. I managed to fix this by playing with:
-bracing_charge_reflector_bonus
-bracing_calibration_ranks_multiplier
-bracing_calibration_ranks
-collision_damage_immunity_timer
-impact_reflection_attack_cooldown_timer
-knockdown_getting_up_delay_armour_multiplier
-knockdown_getting_up_delay_max
-melee_attack_interval (extremelly important to raise it up)
-melee_charge_factor_power_divisor
Still making experiments tough to find the sweet spot.

[KAM 2150]

Cloth is not 16, it is helmet. For some reason combat works better if unit have any armour values on them.

Real life values do not mean anything when it comes to game engine and mathematical calculations as they do not take real life values into consideration.

[leonardusius]

And please one more question: 'multiple soldiers can again fight single target at the same time', what do you mean ? What specific parameter changed ?

Cloth is not 16, it is helmet. For some reason combat works better if unit have any armour values on them.

Real life values do not mean anything when it comes to game engine and mathematical calculations as they do not take real life values into consideration.

But some are ridiculous. A horse meaning only a difference of 20......common. Maintain the realistic ratios and play with the parameters. That's my way. Anyway the good news is here: matching HP with the damage. But also you must go on and work same with the missiles.

[KAM 2150]

kv_rules - melee_secondary_attack_probability

If you set it to 1, more than one soldiers can attack single target at the same time, if at 0 there will be only 1v1 fights.

[leonardusius]

kv_rules - melee_secondary_attack_probability

If you set it to 1, more than one soldiers can attack single target at the same time, if at 0 there will be only 1v1 fights.

Thank you. I know this parameter but I didn't knowing its effect. I was thinking it allows opponent to strike twice in a row. Net wrong explanations, as usual. What lacks most for Total War series is a guide for those parameters.

[leonardusius]

Also I see you're placed charge_timeout into morale kv rules. Why ?

[KAM 2150]

Also what is important is that it changes how melee intervals work. Melee intervals are applies to teach individual so for example is single guy is attacked by 3 soldiers, they might attack him constantly despite longer melee intervals as each of them has separate interval.

[KAM 2150]

It was always there.

[leonardusius]

It was always there.

But it have not connection with morale tough..

[Basilius]

Thank you for this Kam.

Do you intend on eventually integrating these changes into the base DEI Mod, or will it remain a submod?

[KAM 2150]

Some of them probably yes, some of them not. That is why this is a test pack to see how people find some of the changes.

Once I will get more reports, it will be easier to make decission.

[Maetharin]

My first thoughts when seeing this:
"Damn KAM, what the heck, another one of these?
Don´t overwork yourself man!"

Then I read what you actually did...
DAMN KAM, WHAT THE HECK, THIS SOUNDS AWESOME!

I´ll test this out as soon as finals permit!

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

My first thoughts when seeing this:
"Damn KAM, what the heck, another one of these?
Don´t overwork yourself man!"

Then I read what you actually did...
DAMN KAM, WHAT THE HECK, THIS SOUNDS AWESOME!

I´ll test this out as soon as finals permit!

He couldn't resist. KAM needs his battle balance dosage every now and then.