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Thread: Three Kingdoms Historical Information & Discussion

  1. #41

    Default Re: Three Kingdoms Historical Information and Discussion

    Nice biographies, will you be doing more?

  2. #42

    Default Re: Three Kingdoms Historical Information and Discussion

    Perhaps at some point. Sort of buried under several projects at the moment. If I do, I'll probably put the on the character pages on the wiki.
    My Three Kingdoms Military History Blog / Military Map Project -
    Ask me a question!

  3. #43
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Oct 2005

    Default Re: Three Kingdoms Historical Information and Discussion

    This is for you, zoner... why are Zhang Kai and Gong Du part of the Yellow Turbans in TW:TK, let alone majors in their faction? I understand that Gong Du is incorrectly labeled as a Yellow Turban in the novel (he was historically a White Wave bandit), but I have yet to come across any sources stating Zhang Kai was a Yellow Turban. CA has the event in which Cao Song is killed, sparking war between Cao Cao and Tao Qian, but Zhang Kai doesn't serve Tao Qian to commit the deed? Instead he is a major in the Yellow Turbans, a group he was never a part of? Gong Du, on the other hand, they could have made him a White Wave bandit with Han Xian, Yang Feng and Li Le. So two Yellow Turban factions and one White Wave faction, instead of three weak Yellow Turban factions. *shrug*

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhang Kai
    Zhang Kai was a bandit, assassin and military officer during the Three Kingdoms era. Zhang Kai was not a Yellow Turban, nor did he claim to be one, and he did not fight in the 184 Yellow Turban Rebellion - he was just a bandit at that time. After the Yellow Turban Rebellion he quit his bandit ways and joined the ranks of Tao Qian, serving as Commandant of Langye. He was particularly corrupt and ruthless, yet Tao Qian did nothing to reign him in. In 193 Cao Song, Cao Cao's father who was residing in Tao Qian's Xu province, decided to move to his son's stronghold in Yan province and he requested Tao Qian provide him an escort, as he would be transporting many family members and a wealth of gold and treasure. Tao Qian sent Zhang Kai for the task, yet Zhang Kai killed every family member in the party and stole Cao Song's fortune. This sparked off a war between the rivals Cao Cao and Tao Qian, yet Zhang Kai apparently disappeared. He apparently resurfaced in 197, this time in the service of Yuan Shu. In that year Yuan Shu had requested supplies from King Liu Chong of Chen, yet was rebuffed. In response Yuan Shu sent a man named Zhang Kaiyang, who very likely is the same man as Zhang Kai, to kill Liu Chong and his Chancellor. Both Liu Chong and Luo Jun were assassinated, with Yuan Shu absorbing the state of Chen into his own realm. After that, nothing is heard of Zhang Kai again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gong Du
    Gong Du was a famous commander of the White Wave bandits - in the novel he is incorrectly identified as a Yellow Turban. He was highly active in the areas around Runan and was opposed to Cao Cao. Yuan Shao sent Liu Bei to assist him however, Cao Cao attacked and shattered Liu Bei's army, forcing him to seek refuge with Liu Biao. In these same engagements Gong Du and his forces scattered and nothing is heard of him again.
    Last edited by Seether; July 19, 2019 at 08:02 PM.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
    A Wolf Among Sheep: A Rise of Three Kingdoms AAR

  4. #44

    Default Re: Three Kingdoms Historical Information and Discussion

    Gong Du's entire faction is a mess. He starts in Wudu Commandery for some reason, a place I can't find any record of Yellow Turban activity at all, much less him. As you said, in the novel he's one of the Yellow Turbans who raises havoc in Yu Province with Liu Bei and has the be put down by Cao Cao's men. My guess is that his time under Ou Xing (in the novel) is what attracted CA to him, but the issue is I think that they were trying to force someone into the whole "Master of the Land" archetype and needed to diversify the start positions. I'm ok with a little bit of interpretation for the sake of gameplay, but there's not really a good explanation for this. The fact that Liu Pi is nowhere to be found just hurts this explanation even more. If anything, Liu Pi should be leading the faction with Gong Du as his henchman, if we're going to go the Romance route.

    Zhang Kai is weird however. It'd make a bit more sense to me if not for the fact that his employment under Tao Qian is important for that drama that CA loves so much. His time with the Yellow Turbans in the novel is only ever a background note, and obviously not a factor in history. CA have written themselves into a weird corner if they ever want to make Tao Qian a playable faction, as it precludes his employment under him. I can't imagine why he was put into a Yellow Turban faction except for the fact that someone at CA thinks his story is cool and likes the "Former Yellow Turban" part of it a bit too much. His position in this game feels like fanfiction, where someone's favorite character got shoved into some important role that they had no prior association with.

    I do actually find the lack of a White Wave faction to be a problem with the game. Currently, Yang Feng and Xu Huang are just a Han Empire army that attacks Nanyang and Xiangyang at the start of the game and usually gets wiped out by either Liu Biao or Yuan Shu, and since neither of the officers are legendary, that's usually all you see of them. It'd be nice to have a bandit faction that isn't starting up in the Heishan mountains, and it would help Yang Feng and Xu Huang survive much longer.
    Last edited by zoner16; July 20, 2019 at 03:06 PM.
    My Three Kingdoms Military History Blog / Military Map Project -
    Ask me a question!

  5. #45

    Default Re: Three Kingdoms Historical Information and Discussion

    here is an episode on 3K from History Respawned - a great channel (and a podcast) where historians discuss video games.

  6. #46
    PikeStance's Avatar Greater of Two Evils
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    May 2011
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    Default Re: Three Kingdoms Historical Information & Discussion

    ^ That was interesting

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