Macedonia Naming Dispute: Solved?

**Abdülmecid I** · October 20, 2018, 05:21 AM

As I had predicted, contrary to the doom and gloom scenarios of the media, two thirds of the Macedonian parliament voted to modify the Constitution. The process is not over yet, because every change needs to be approved separately, but the majority required is much smaller and comfortably covered by the representatives of the governing coalition. In essence, from the Macedonian side, the most serious obstacle has been surpassed, which means that the only thing that can seriously jeopardize the agreement is a possible failure of the Greek Parliament to gather the absolute majority (1/2+1). I genuinely didn't understand all that pessimist attitude following the referendum. Sure, the participation rate was disappointing, but the victory of "Yes" was overwhelming, so Skopje was perfectly justified, from a moral perspective, to pursue its goal. After all, the referendum was only advisory and solely intended to legitimize the policy of Zaev's administration, something that the 90%+ percentage casually achieved. I suspect that the support from several opposition MPs was guaranteed in a perhaps controversial manner, but that hardly undermines the validity of the result, considering the overwhelming endorsement of the government's proposal by the Macedonian society. It's too early to celebrate before the Greek Parliament ratifies the deal, but I am optimist it will pass, even if the current government collapses. Ironically enough, the Greek Minister of Defense is presumably outraged over yesterday's events. He's the head of "Independent Greeks", a far-right party and member of the ruling coalition, so he's anxious to avoid a potentially embarrassing vote. I suppose he's afraid of provoking the fall of the government (and thus the loss of his precious political and financial power) by rejecting the negotiations, but he has also difficulties in adopting an initiative that is obviously viewed as treacherous by his voters. A typical self-contradiction of right-wing populism, when chauvinist bubble conflicts with reality and your personal interests...

**Sir Adrian** · October 20, 2018, 05:43 AM

I cannot believe we might finally see the end of the most shameful, puerile and sleazy dispute in human history.

**Yayattasa** · October 22, 2018, 08:06 AM

But, seriously, why not Dardania or Paeonia? It has a nice ring to it, and alludes to ancestral kingdoms in their borders.

**Beorn** · October 22, 2018, 08:52 AM

^It rings no glorious notes in the irrational ears of their nationalistic part of the population

@Abdulmecid you are Turk(?), so you should be more familiar with sleazy voting processes, for example according to local sources several opposition MPs voted Yes in exchange to immunity against corruption charges

Kammenos is a prick and an idiot, and indeed he is going to be in a pretty tough position come voting time in the greek parliament. Good riddance tbh

**Abdülmecid I** · March 28, 2020, 05:25 AM

As an epilogue to the name dispute and the diplomatic interactions, yesterday, slightly more than one year after the Hellenic Parliament ratified the Prespes agreement, the Republic of North Macedonia was finally accepted into NATO. The Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs, now controlled by the conservative government, which succeeded the center-left party that successfully initiated the negotiations, congratulated North Macedonia on her membership in the international coalition. The event was expected and not at all surprising, but I think it at least confirms beyond any reasonable doubt that the dispute is at last over, at least on an official level. Nationalists from both countries may continue to whine about the "treasonous compromise", but the intensity of their complaints has been in a gradual decline, as the political opposition silently accepts the fait accompli, while the public realises that the paranoia about stolen heritage and territorial revisionism does not match with reality.

**Kyriakos** · March 28, 2020, 06:50 AM

This needs a new thread, instead of reviving one from October which was about the name, not Nato.

**Aexodus** · March 28, 2020, 07:27 AM

The name issue was why Macedonia couldn’t join Nato I imagine.

**Morticia Iunia Bruti** · March 28, 2020, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I

As an epilogue to the name dispute and the diplomatic interactions, yesterday, slightly more than one year after the Hellenic Parliament ratified the Prespes agreement, the Republic of North Macedonia was finally accepted into NATO. The Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs, now controlled by the conservative government, which succeeded the center-left party that successfully initiated the negotiations, congratulated North Macedonia on her membership in the international coalition. The event was expected and not at all surprising, but I think it at least confirms beyond any reasonable doubt that the dispute is at last over, at least on an official level. Nationalists from both countries may continue to whine about the "treasonous compromise", but the intensity of their complaints has been in a gradual decline, as the political opposition silently accepts the fait accompli, while the public realises that the paranoia about stolen heritage and territorial revisionism does not match with reality.

I think otherwise european patience would be really low with greek pseudo-problems during Corona crisis.

**ggggtotalwarrior** · March 31, 2020, 07:39 PM

Reading up on this I think it’s absurd that the country’s name was what was holding up their entrance into NATO. Absolutely absurd Greece was willing to pull some veto

on their entrance because of them taking a name from a state that existed 2000 years ago as if modern Greeks have *such* a connection to ancient Macedonians. I saw Greeks going nuts on Reddit over this issue as if the name of another country is so offensive to them and is something they should really be testing a global political struggle over.

so it was fine when it was called Macedonia as a part of Yugoslavia but they become independent and suddenly they’re not allowed to use the name? Toms of “wahhh they’re Slavs” is all I see online as if their heritage means they’re not allowed to use a name their people have used for generations and the people of Greece are “real Macedonians” despite the fact their modern land has been conquered for foreign empires for centuries half a dozen times in the 2000+ years since Macedonia was a Greek Kingdom. Meanings of words change and if they want to claim the name Macedonia when it isn’t in use by a free country who gives a

?

**Beorn** · April 01, 2020, 03:56 AM

Thank you, next

**conon394** · April 01, 2020, 09:17 AM

Good to see this issued closed.

I am pretty sure neither Socrates nor Demosthenes would have approved of Greeks caring about who was calling themselves Macedonians.

**irontaino** · April 01, 2020, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by ggggtotalwarrior

Reading up on this I think it’s absurd that the country’s name was what was holding up their entrance into NATO. Absolutely absurd Greece was willing to pull some veto

on their entrance because of them taking a name from a state that existed 2000 years ago as if modern Greeks have *such* a connection to ancient Macedonians. I saw Greeks going nuts on Reddit over this issue as if the name of another country is so offensive to them and is something they should really be testing a global political struggle over.

so it was fine when it was called Macedonia as a part of Yugoslavia but they become independent and suddenly they’re not allowed to use the name? Toms of “wahhh they’re Slavs” is all I see online as if their heritage means they’re not allowed to use a name their people have used for generations and the people of Greece are “real Macedonians” despite the fact their modern land has been conquered for foreign empires for centuries half a dozen times in the 2000+ years since Macedonia was a Greek Kingdom. Meanings of words change and if they want to claim the name Macedonia when it isn’t in use by a free country who gives a

?

That's petty Balkan nationalism for ya.

**Beorn** · April 01, 2020, 03:34 PM

We (aka reasonable Greeks) are also glad that the issue was resolved with a reasonable result.

Being in Balkans etc, I think it's obvious why Greece wanted to minimize the chances that at some point in the future an irredentist movement from a neighboring country may gain sway and bite back. I don't think that we need to reopen old discussions about classical or hellenistic-era states either.