How to play as Carthage?

**Boxerbrad** · June 16, 2018, 03:34 PM

Fancied a change of campaign and given I've so far dabbled with Rome and the Hellenistic Nations I thought Carthage with it's colony based empire would be interesting.

Only issue is, how do I get characters elected general and secondary general, I'm at war with the rebels so surely this counts?

Also did regional administrators have the right to lead defensive campaigns if they did not have this status? Just trying to play though in relation to the anti-barcid/vs barcid conflicts, plus in relation to the senatorial positions assigned.

**Lusitanio** · June 16, 2018, 04:17 PM

Check this link that talks about the same: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...s-for-Carthage

But to get characters elected generals you have to start wars with other factions beside the rebels. Do not put your FMs in Carthage, otherwise they will get the secondary general trait on the next turn.

Let Numida develop until they are strong enough to give you a good challenge and il also benefits you because if you're not allied with them, you will suffer some random raids.

**Rad** · June 17, 2018, 05:02 AM

I usually crush Numidia as soon as they start being hostile - I hate having a messy back yard.
I let Rome, Celtic, Iberian and Hellenic factions develop for the fights.

Thats it, I am startin a new campaingn!

**Boxerbrad** · June 17, 2018, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Rad

I usually crush Numidia as soon as they start being hostile - I hate having a messy back yard.
I let Rome, Celtic, Iberian and Hellenic factions develop for the fights.

Thats it, I am startin a new campaingn!

Having read the link in the prior message and messed around with an old save, I found that simply blockading Syracuse prompted the war leader script, I now have a war leader, a second commander, and several FM's elected to general positions?

Is this meant to happen?

And does this end if I take syracuse or simply till the rebels are destroyed?

**Genghis Skahn** · June 17, 2018, 10:04 AM

Is this meant to happen?

And does this end if I take syracuse or simply till the rebels are destroyed?

1. Yes

2. No, basically by taking any sort of aggressive action(blockading ports, attacking armies) you build up "war points" which will allow the War Leader to stay in power until said "war points" run out. They decrease every turn automatically AFAIK, but taking hostile action will raise them again. If you don't want a War Leader anymore simply wait without taking hostile actions against anyone. You can't really destroy the rebels since they continue to spawn rebellious stacks randomly in provinces which you own(and are called aphistamenoi).

**Boxerbrad** · June 17, 2018, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn

1. Yes 
 
2. No, basically by taking any sort of aggressive action(blockading ports, attacking armies) you build up "war points" which will allow the War Leader to stay in power until said "war points" run out. They decrease every turn automatically AFAIK, but taking hostile action will raise them again. If you don't want a War Leader anymore simply wait without taking hostile actions against anyone. You can't really destroy the rebels since they continue to spawn rebellious stacks randomly in provinces which you own(and are called aphistamenoi).

So, let me get this straight, I'm early in my campaign an there are a few largish rebel stacks in my territory. Both Sicily and North Africa. If I keep Syracuse blockaded I can use my war leader and his generals to mop these up. Then remove the fleet from Syracuse, which after some turns on non-military activity, reduces the 'war points' down? My game play strategy is generally to put most young family members in 'anti-rebel' armies unless they look like they have the capacity to get good traits in cities with schools. So, once the Numidians attack me should I wipe them out or confine them to one territory as a client? Which is best to ensure I have a steady but manageable supply of rebels to keep my family members occupied and to ensure I regularly get 'war leaders' when I'm not campaigning against other factions?

**Boxerbrad** · July 17, 2018, 01:44 PM

Resurrecting this - just wondering if Carthage ever gets heavy artillery weapons like Rome and the Greek states?

Also is there a 'road map' for the Carthaginian political system - eg, what each title is for, requirements for a FM to be elected to the position?

**Rad** · July 17, 2018, 02:37 PM

Nope, only the light arrow throwers - which is fine by me.
Second question - no real idea.

**Boxerbrad** · July 17, 2018, 04:10 PM

Aw, I'd love for Carthage to get the large scale stone throwers after a military reform or after controlling certain cities.
Nothing in between though, given the recruitment pool I think that would make them OP.

Anyone know how to work the political system? No?

**Kull** · July 19, 2018, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Boxerbrad

Anyone know how to work the political system? No?

This looks a LOT nicer in Chap's v2.35 "Player's Guide", but until that's released here's the ugly, all text version

Political Assemblies

ha'Hasgot 'al Me'ot we-arba'a
The council of one hundred and four is primarily for judging the performance of the
military commanders. They are chosen from the Roshim for life.

Roshim
The senate deals with the elections and all domestic and foreign policy. It is composed of
hundreds of elder aristocrats and only aristocrats can become apart of the Roshim.

Ham
The citizens assembly vote on who shall lead the armies of Qart-Hadast.

'Am Mahnet
The assembly of the camp are citizens in the army who can form a council with limited
powers to influence the course of action during war.

Political Factions

Two factions are contending for the future of Qart-Hadast. The Barcids believe in order
to thrive they must look across the sea towards Europe. While the Anti-Barcids believe
the best path is securing Africa.

Barcid -1 Law

Anti Barcid -1 Unrest

Wealth

In the city of Phonecian merchants wealth is everything. People are expected to be an Adernim and Wealthy before they even try to be apart of society. They must also maintain their high status and never lose Wealth or Influence.

There are many ways to gain wealth for an ambitious melkan. The easiest way is to stay in highly developed settlements with a variety of buildings such as markets, mines, ports, farms, ect. Sacking or enslaving settlements for loot can also make you wealthy, depending on the generals personality. Some people prefer to share the loot with their ever grateful warriors.

Society

Ish Nokhe(Faction Leader)
Leading man in politics
3 Influence, 2 Personal Security, 10% Happiness

Ish Nokhe Akher(Faction heir)
The other leading man in politics
2 Influence, 2 Personal Security, 10% Happiness

Citizenship
Phonecians born outside of Qarthadast have a chance to gain citizenship and a social status, if they are Wealthy and stay in Qarthadast.

'Am Qart-Hadasht
Citizen of Qart-Hadast

Rosh
Member of the Roshim(senate)
Very Wealthy, Adernim, 1 Influence, Age 35,
1 Influence

SheHasagim
Member of ha'Hasgot 'al Me'ot we-arba'a
(The council of one hundred and four)
Fabulously Wealthy, Adernim, 2 Influence, Rosh
2 Influence

Social Status
Citizens must be considered an Adernim before they are allowed to hold office.

Adernim
Aristocrat

Sa'irnim
Commoner
may become Adernim if they are Wealthy and 5 Influence
-3 Influence

Non Elective Offices

Kohen
Priest
Chosen in any Settlers Colonies
'Am Qart-Hadasht, Very Wealthy, Age 25, Devout
1 Law

Rab Kohenim
The chief of the priests
Chosen in Qart-hadast
Adernim, Fabulously Wealthy, Kohen, Devout,
2 Influence, 1 Law

Ish 'al' Arast
Colonial Governor
Chosen in any Carthage government with a Trade or Settlers Colony. (Except Supervised Colony or Barcid Capital.) Lost when leaving the province.
Wealthy, 2 Influence, Age 25, 'Am Qart-Hadasht, Adernim
1 Influence, 1 law, 5% Tax Bonus

Government & Administration Offices

Elections are held in Qarthadasht every winter. The candidates must be Wealthy, 'Am Qart-Hadasht and Adernim. Characters in elections have a good chance of retaining their current office. Losing the Wealth or Influence required to get in to office is disgraceful and they will lose their title.

Shopet
Judge, one of the 2 rulers of Qart-hadast
Fabulously Wealthy, 4 Influence, Age 40,
Previously held office
Does not lead armies
3 Influence, 1 Law, 2 Personal Security,
10% Trade Bonus, Farming Bonus,
-70% Movement

Ex Shopet
1 Influence

Rab ha'Soperim
Chief Scribe
Wealthy, 2 Influence, Age 20, Scholarly
1 Influence, 5% Trade Bonus

Shaqal
One who collects shekels, tax collector
Wealthy, 2 Influence, Age 20,
10% Tax Bonus, -3 Personal Security

'Abd bet
Servant of the temple
Wealthy, 2 Influence, Age 20
1 Law

Rab
Religious administrator
Fabulously Wealthy, 3 Influence, Age 35,
Previously held office
2 Influence, 1 Law, 1 Personal Security

Ex Rab
1 Influence

Miqim elim
The one who raises divinity from the dead and husband of Astarte. Manager of the festival.
Fabulously Wealthy, 4 Influence,
Ex Shopet or Rab
2 Influence, 1 Law, 2 Personal Security

Mehashebim
Accountant administrator
Very Wealthy, 2 Influence, Age 20,
Good Administrator
1 Influence, 5% Tax Bonus

Shloshim Ishim 'al ha'Mesh'atot
The 30 men in charge of taxes
Very Wealthy, 2 Influence, Age 20,
Devout
1 Influence, 5% Tax Bonus

Military Momentum

The Roshim decides when war is appropriate. These actions will convince the Roshim that war is necessary.

An enemy has:
Besieged or Assaulted your settlement
Attacked your army in the field
Blockaded your port

If you:
Besiege a settlement
Blockade a port

It does not matter if your faction is officially at war with another, only the Roshim can decide if it is time to elect the generals to lead the armies of Qart-Hadast. If those actions have not occurred for while then the Roshim will declare peace and the elected generals will have their titles relinquished.
War Leader Player Elected General Same function as the Rab Mahnet, cannot be Faction Leader or Faction Heir.
2 Command when attacking, 3 Influence, 2 Authority, 1 Morale

War Leader

The Ham elects the generals in times of war. When the Roshim have declared a state of war, you have the opportunity to play as the Ham and decide who shall be the Rab Mahnet. You can choose anyone, anywhere who is not the Faction Leader or Faction Heir.

War Leader
Player Elected General
Same function as the Rab Mahnet, cannot be Faction Leader or Faction Heir.
2 Command when attacking, 3 Influence, 2 Authority, 1 Morale

You may decline to do this by clicking X when the notification comes up. This will stop the War Leader script for the rest of the campaign, you can not choose any more. This will let the citizens of Qart-Hadast decide on the Rab Mahnet. You must bring eligible characters to a Council Administration such as the one in Qart-Hadast.

Choosing a War Leader is not available right at the start of the game when the Roshim is at war with Epiros.

Military Offices

Generals are elected in a Council Administration when the Roshim have decided to go to war. The candidates must be Wealthy, 'Am Qart-Hadasht and Adernim. Losing the Wealth or Influence required to get in to office is disgraceful and they will lose their title. These offices are relinquished when the military momentum has run out and the Roshim have decided to disband the generals.

Rab Mahnet Elected general
Fabulously Wealthy, 2 Influence, Charismatic Cannot be a Shopet
2 Command, I Influence, 1 Morale

Rab Sheni Elected deputy general (NOTE: We've recently changed the code to make these less likely in v2.35)
Very Wealthy, 1 Influence, Charismatic Cannot be a Shopet
1 Command, I Influence, 1 Morale

Mishtar
Recruiting officer
Elected in Qart-Hadasht
Fabulously Wealthy, 2 Influence, Age 30
20% Recruiting Discount, 25% Movement

'Am Mahet Assembly of the camp (military)

Accepted the General
A Charismatic Rab Mahnet or Rab Sheni may be chosen.
1 Command, 1 Morale, 5% Movement

Rejected the General
You are not the Rab Mahnet, Rab Sheni or an Ish 'al' Arast.
-5 Command, -5 Looting Settlements,
-3 Morale, -1 Map Vision

Military Disgrace

Losing battles in your favour is an absolute disgrace. The council of one hundred and four will condemn incompetent generals.

Lost Command
You should have won this battle
-5 Command, -1 Confidence, -4 Influence, -4 Authority, -3 Morale

Disgraced
An embarrassing and humiliating defeat. (This person would normally be executed, but that can't be done in-game)
-8 Influence, -8 Command, -2 Confidence, -8 Authority, -50% Movement, -5 Morale

**qwertykov** · August 22, 2018, 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by Kull

This looks a LOT nicer in Chap's v2.35 "Player's Guide", but until that's released here's the ugly, all text version

Military Offices

Generals are elected in a Council Administration when the Roshim have decided to go to war. The candidates must be Wealthy, 'Am Qart-Hadasht and Adernim. Losing the Wealth or Influence required to get in to office is disgraceful and they will lose their title. These offices are relinquished when the military momentum has run out and the Roshim have decided to disband the generals.

Rab Mahnet Elected general
Fabulously Wealthy, 2 Influence, Charismatic Cannot be a Shopet
2 Command, I Influence, 1 Morale

Rab Sheni Elected deputy general (NOTE: We've recently changed the code to make these less likely in v2.35)
Very Wealthy, 1 Influence, Charismatic Cannot be a Shopet
1 Command, I Influence, 1 Morale

Mishtar
Recruiting officer
Elected in Qart-Hadasht
Fabulously Wealthy, 2 Influence, Age 30
20% Recruiting Discount, 25% Movement

'Am Mahet Assembly of the camp (military)

Accepted the General
A Charismatic Rab Mahnet or Rab Sheni may be chosen.
1 Command, 1 Morale, 5% Movement

Rejected the General
You are not the Rab Mahnet, Rab Sheni or an Ish 'al' Arast.
-5 Command, -5 Looting Settlements,
-3 Morale, -1 Map Vision

So based on the above, in order to be become a "confirmed general" to legitimately lead armies, the FM has to be either a charismatic Rab Mahnet or charismatic Rab Sheni?

So whats the downside if the FM lead armies into battles if as a "rejected general"? Will there be implications or affect his career development in the game?

**Genghis Skahn** · July 17, 2018, 06:21 PM

Sorry bud, it was SamueleD who created their political trait system; I've just done some bugfixing and tweaking on the triggers where things weren't working so good(eg. chivalry penalty for disgraced general L2 actually resulted in a character with 10 dread, an effect unused in EBII). I'm not a very experienced Carthaginian player either, so I really can't comment on it much.

**Rad** · July 19, 2018, 04:58 PM

Thank you Kull.

1. At 2.3, I have Rab Sheni who are uncharismatic types. Unless being charismatic is a new, 2.35 prerequisite for those offices, I believe you are mistaken. I get that charisma helps leading armies, but leave my grumpy ol generals alone!

2. Why and how are you making Rab Sheni less likely to happen?

3. I cannot get non Punic FMs to be go through the citizen-noble-general route. Will this be changed in 2.35, or was citizenship and military strictly available to folks of Punic descent?

4. Ish 'al' Arast - do those guys have authority to lead armies in their own province? If so, I could use them defensively...

**Kull** · July 19, 2018, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Rad

Thank you Kull.

1. At 2.3, I have Rab Sheni who are uncharismatic types. Unless being charismatic is a new, 2.35 prerequisite for those offices, I believe you are mistaken. I get that charisma helps leading armies, but leave my grumpy ol generals alone!

2. Why and how are you making Rab Sheni less likely to happen?

3. I cannot get non Punic FMs to be go through the citizen-noble-general route. Will this be changed in 2.35, or was citizenship and military strictly available to folks of Punic descent?

4. Ish 'al' Arast - do those guys have authority to lead armies in their own province? If so, I could use them defensively...

Honestly, i haven't played Carthage in a while, so I'm not much help on how this plays out in-game. Also can't say for sure which of these features are 2.3 vs 2.35, although I think most (or all) are 2.3.

The change was that almost any FM left in Carthage for one turn became a secondary general, and we made that less likely to happen. Here's the code as it (probably) exists in v2.3:

As coded, here's what makes you eligible for the office:

Code:

;------------------------------------------
Trigger CarthageGainRb_snyEligible
	WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart

	Condition FactionType f_carthage
		and Trait Wealthy > 1
		and Trait Carthage_Citizenship > 0
		and Trait Carthage_Status = 2
		and Attribute Piety > 1
		and Trait Rb_sny < 1
		and Trait NaturalCharisma > 1
		and Trait Spt != 2
		and Trait Rb_mhnt != 2
		and Trait CarthWarLeader != 1
		and Trait Carthage_Military_Disgrace < 1

	Affects Rb_sny 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------

And here's the code for getting elected:

Code:

;------------------------------------------
Trigger CarthageElectionRb_sny_InCarthage
	WhenToTest CharacterTurnEndInSettlement

	Condition FactionType f_carthage
		and not I_IsFactionAIControlled f_carthage
		and I_EventCounter ecCarthageWarPoints > 0
		and Trait Rb_sny = 1
		and Trait Rb_mhnt != 2
        and SettlementName sett_170 			;;; Carthage
		and Trait Spt != 2
		and Trait CarthWarLeader != 1
		and Trait Rb_mhnt != 2

	Affects Rb_sny 1 Chance 95

;------------------------------------------

So yes, charisma does enter it. Surprising that you would have uncharismatic types getting this office. If you can confirm that, it might be a bug of some sort. Anyway, "less likely" includes an age requirement (>25) and a major reduction in the percent chance (from 95 to 25).

**Genghis Skahn** · July 19, 2018, 08:42 PM

4. Ish 'al' Arast - do those guys have authority to lead armies in their own province? If so, I could use them defensively...

Unless I'm mistaken, I think you can or it was at least intended. Again, you'd have to ask both SamueleD and Trarco about the specifics for code and history respectively.

**Rad** · July 20, 2018, 12:30 AM

If I am reading the traits properly, the first level of NaturalCharisma is the basic one and there are five levels... these code things are a mess lol
Anyhow, I will post a screen of my grumpy generals later on.

**Genghis Skahn** · July 20, 2018, 12:59 AM

That's right, so only the most uncharismatic characters can't receive the trait. People with L2 charisma(still shown as Uncharismatic in game--only level 3+ becomes Charismatic) and above are all eligible.

**Rad** · July 20, 2018, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn

That's right, so only the most uncharismatic characters can't receive the trait. People with L2 charisma(still shown as Uncharismatic in game--only level 3+ becomes Charismatic) and above are all eligible.

Thanks Genghis!

**Lusitanio** · August 22, 2018, 08:39 AM

From my experience I didn't saw any consequence of leading FMs with rejected general (beside auto-resolve battles). It may influence moral and that's it.