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Thread: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: June 29]

  1. #181

    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: May 31]

    Quote Originally Posted by Swaeft View Post
    I somehow managed to miss your previous update, which means I was in for a treat reading two updates at once. I think you'll find me a broken recorder if I started to praise your writing and character interactions again Out of everything I am most eager to see what happens to Far'am, especially since he now has renewed purpose. Special mention also to Mun'at who seems to be going against some of his morals now...
    Well, I'm glad you enjoyed the two-fer Swaeft! And I am glad to hear that Far'am is proving interesting. I wasn't sure at first about all of the new characters/sub-plots that came in at the beginning of chapter 4, but they are necessary, and it's nice to see they are also appreciated!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    It sounds like Mun'at and Mubsamat are both working towards the same goal, the unity of their people. It also seems that Mun'at is feeling the responsibility of his command as a heavy weight, almost like Frodo carrying the burden of the One Ring - he wants this but finds it repellent, too.
    Yeah, there are similarities between them, but also stark differences that will become more clear when Mun'at and his band finally get to Saba' lands. In particular, their respective views on power are very different (as evidenced in this last update), and that will likely lead to later issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turkafinwë View Post
    I wonder how Mun'at is able to convert so many to his cause. I would've thought that the different tribes would be very suspicious of outsiders no matter how beautiful their words are, or how much they promise, come to think of it especially then. Perhaps the livelihoods of the tribes are so in danger that they are desperate for any kind of salvation. Nonetheless he must be a very charismatic speaker indeed.
    This is a tricky bit. Normally, what you are saying would be correct, especially the further south they go, as the "Greek threat" is less apparent there. However, the Nabati control the head of the overland incense trade routes from southern Arabia, so their word will hold extra weight. The gold from Yathrib is also an important factor here too. And finally, the previous actions of Mun'at's army outside Yathrib will have made them somewhat famous, more likely to be trusted, and also somewhat feared. I guess the main point is that you are right that this is something unlikely, and something that is abnormal, but the previous events make it more than possible. In a land where so much of the wealth flows from trade over massive distances with no garrisons or protections, the brutal policing actions of Mun'at's forces would be very well received by all, and make them a force to be treated with respect and (cautious) admiration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turkafinwë View Post
    I was really intrigued with the "lie" that Mun'at is spreading and the concept behind it, him finding he is a fraud and should tell people the truth yet he knows this is what needs to be done. It made me think on the nature of lies and what makes them viewed as 'lesser' in value by the majority of mankind than the 'truth'. People always preach that the 'truth' is something very valuable (and it is don't get me wrong) and that lies are something to be avoided and generally viewed as bad, yet we all lie and often the lies we tell are more powerful than the truths we speak. Then again what is the truth? If you live your whole life believing a certain lie is the truth does it in the end matter that it was a lie? To that person I don't think so, in that case, I think, the truth doesn't matter. I think it's a very interesting subject to examine and I could probably talk about my opinion on it for hours so I will stop myself right here. Still this chapter inspired me to revisit my thoughts on it which is lovely.
    A lot of this was inspired by T. E. Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom. In that Lawrence is fighting for the Arabs, helping to lead them to a free and independent state, but as an English officer he knows that his loyalties are not ultimately to them, but to the crown, and he recognizes that some of what he tells them will be flatly contravened by higher-ups in the English command. This makes him feel a fraud even though he is acting as honestly as he can, and it is a sentiment I thought would fit well here. At any rate, if you want to see my source for stealing material general inspiration for much of what goes on in here, check out his book! It is awesome in so many ways! To the larger points on lies and truth, I could also talk at (far too much) length, and so I'll also stop myself. But the topics are super interesting, and I'm glad to hear the update got you thinking about such things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    Aaalright, read it up to this very point and its finally time to repay your for all your faithful, motivational comments in my thread. Phew.

    You know why I took so long? Because I take my time. I need a lot of it, not because I'm weary of what I'm dealing with, but the opposite. Good things are worth my time to delve into. That's exactly the reason why I have some video games with playing times far above average.

    Your AAR delivered (so far ). I read it straight after Skotos' and Cookies AAR. Every AAR feels different, no doubt, but I could not make out a "better" or "worse". They're all awesome. Which is why I view MAARC only as a plaything.

    You really have a skill for descriptions. You did it well, made the magic of the land and the feeling of the characters come alive. One could feel the character's conflict, wandering the endless sands, conquering a city, doing the dirty deed of a soldier's lot ...

    This is a rather unusual scenery you've chosen. It's very brave of you to dedicate your story to such a mysterious place in such an interesting time, giving praise to cultures long forgotten.

    I had a delve into EB II. And what did I find there? Ooohh...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Very interesting to see the groundwork of your AAR. I can see how you build the characters around these traits, all the while imagining your own things into them.
    Derc, I have to say I am super glad you've liked it so far! I really had no idea what your reaction would be given how image-heavy your AAR is, cause I thought the lack in mine might have been a turn-off. I am really happy you have enjoyed it without pics though!

    Also, it's cool to me you cracked open EBII to check out the mod/setting. I did indeed take much of the basics from there, but some things I changed in turn one. The biggest thing was that I used console commands to tweak some traits, mainly to make Mun'at more loyal, and to give him a couple cool ancillaries that I thought were befitting. But other than that, it's all taken from the EBII base setup. I figured that they've done so well to make a righteously awesome mod, I could take it as is to make an equally cool AAR (even if it's image-light).

    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    Without much further ado, here's the obligatory list :

    1. That was a very dark and strong part. You really managed to instill an oppressive atmosphere there.
    2. That part of the misinformation was very refreshing. Nabateans almost had slaughtered each other. Phew.
      I liked your maps a lot. Very helpful and very nice to look at. I have to say I didn't even miss some fierce battle screenshots all too much. Your AAR works really good as is.
      Mun'at's conflict sitting around in the city was compelling. I could feel the interal conflict of this restless nomad's soul.
    3. That was so well described that you actually managed to activate this ugly feeling in me. The feeling of waiting and being at unease. Bravo.
    4. I could spam an entire textwall for it, but let's keep it short. Why would someone willingly give up their freedom to some foreigner for the sake of 'unification'? Yes, this is the global goal and yes, you did manage so far to let this seem like a hard task. Everything comes at a price. Your last part, 4 - VI, was very intriguing in that regard. I hope it will stay challenging for the Nabateans to unite the tribes. Let's see what you have up your sleeve with the Sabaeans and eastern Arabia.
    5. Loved this.
    6. This one I did not. Disgusting.
    7. Well, the smell of rape was in the air. Tbh there was a lot of potential but it was a very dangerous scene, both in terms of story and storywriting. Could also have screwed up a lot.
    8. Very mighty scene where evil had to be done to prevent further evil.
    9. Oh yeah, the best ideas appear in everyday's situations.
    10. I love your detailed descriptions in landscape and behaviour of the locals. You did your research.
      Although sometimes your descriptions are a bit too dreamy. Or romantic, if that makes any sense. Perhaps just my imagination.
    11. The burden of the rich man, well explained.
    12. I start to understand why the arabs cover the image of the prophet Muhammad.
    13. Huh, that was unforeseeable. Bravo. Liked this. Poor Hasan.
    14. Pretty dumb answer but I always found Google Earth together with its various plugins and huge community very helpful for any problems I had in terms of geography.
      Do also keep in mind, however, that ~2500 years have changed the landscape. Some wadis have appeared, others vanished. Well ... wth cares anyway?
      Also, I demand more Fata Morganas!
    15. I've read this multiple times in this thread.
      No need to apologize for anything. How would Cookie have to feel otherwise?
      Hey, shouldn't you as a philosophy guy know that you shouldn't stress yourself all too much?
      Here - have a pic from Spec Ops, a very philosophical game (Set in a devastated Dubai btw.). It fits both you and the story.
      Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    16. Very, very useful and I'm grateful for it.
    17. It took me some time to figure out this was to indicate a shift in scenes. I thought it was just something decorative.
      Now that I know it, it's all the more helpful. Great idea!
      It looks pretty btw. Well done, Cedric. Adds a lot to the atmosphere.
    18. I am very happy that you help fighting these false assumptions.
      It would be a pretty dumb and somewhat stereotypical thing to assume that all of the Middle East is a barren desert. Most of the places in the world are very diverse.
      Guess where the following pic was shot.
      Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



      Eh?
      Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
      Diyala River Valley, Iraq
    19. Ewww. You vile LaTeX user! It's incredible not having found any errors whatsoever, then in the last update ... that! Make it go away before it burns my eyes. Ewwww...!
    20. You asked that question somewhere. I can't seem to find where.
      To answer it: Well, the forum software encourages to read this post per post, not as chapters. The chapters themselve, however, felt slightly different from each other. I can't explain well, as I'm not of a chapter guy myself, but heck - if you would make a book out of this, it would already be well readable.
    21. Just right.
    Thanks a million for the list, especially the small crits here and there. To some of the particular points:

    @6: Not my fault, so I won't apologize for it
    @7: I think Cook is still not totally happy with it, but I am, because, as you said, it could have gone off the rails quickly. I know how it could plausibly have worked out as I hint afterward, but there is no way I could have written that scene out and had it not end in blood, and likely death, which would have killed the whole story arc. So I stand by my choice, even if it was possibly somewhat contrived.
    @8: Well, if you liked that, you'll be happy with later parts, as that will come again and again. This is not a pretty place or time, and the vastness of the place means that messages have to stick. Completely. Without needing a restatement ever. So yeah, brutality will sometimes be a necessity for moving forward.
    @10: I can take that. I like rich (possibly romantic) description, and there is something about the desert I find alluring in a romantic way anyway. If you feel it comes across that way too much, do let me know, but if it's just the occasional thing, then I am okay with that, and it's probably even intentional
    @14: Yeah, that is my most valuable resource for a lot of this. The main reason I want a good map though is for names of things. Wadis may have changed (and changed name), but the general geography is very much the same due to how climate is there. And I don't necessarily need the era-appropriate names for everything (how could I even find that?), but I would like at least some name for all geographical features where a description is worth giving. I've managed so far, but if you come across a good map of the area with local names for features, you send it my way!
    @15: Thanks for that! The apologies are I think mostly because I myself would like to be moving along more quickly, but I will try to remember the sweet spec ops wisdom
    @18: Nice river shot! I think that on closer reflection we all realize these places are rich and diverse, but it's just such an easy shorthand for our brains to think "Arabia --> hot dry desert", and I wanted to combat that a bit.
    @19: Oh my god, that was a massive oversight. Thank you so much for catching both of those! Usually the tex markup is easy for me to find/remember because it's footnotes which break the text in an obvious way. These inline ones can sneak past my radar though. At any rate, it's fixed already, and I will be more vigilant in the future!

    Quote Originally Posted by Derc
    Sorry if my post may feel a bit mixed up but checking and writing so much was pretty exhausting . I hope it helps as much as it can.

    TL;dr: Mun'at has the following to say about this AAR:

    "I like it!"

    Nice research you did, nice writing. Really, keep it up! But don't stress yourself all too much pls.

    [thesis writing stuff]

    Exactly the situation I am in right now.
    No need to apologize. It is a lovely post, and I'm glad to have it!

    And I will try to remember not to stress about it. I love getting work on it done, and my main reason for "stressing" is not cause I am really stressed, but more that I wish I was working on it more. But I can try to manage that. At any rate, you working on a thesis as well makes you more able to understand my issues with time and planning and getting everything done. It's tough, but I'm enjoying sticking with it all!
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  2. #182
    Cookiegod's Avatar CIVUS DIVUS EX CLIBANO
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    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: May 31]

    Critique, definitely not as a list(!):
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    - Very nice new part (goes without saying, but felt like saying it regardless)
    - I'm somewhat surprised to see the Houthi's here. Is it a common name or was there an ancient tribe by that same name? Because the Houthi's of today cannot be related to them in any way.
    - Choice of words is maybe a tad too sophisticated even for me. I don't actually mind it personally, and this part had me look up and thereby improve my English in spite of all the American; but it had me confused/somewhat mixed in a couple of places:
    -- "umbra mountains" - no idea if umbra is meant as a word (does it mean something like shadowy?) or if it's a name (in which case it would have to be capitalised?)
    -- "arcadian landscape" isn't an expression most international readers are familiar with, and I'm not sure if all native English speakers are. Also, since your story is placed in the antiquity, when Arcadia was still alive and well, that confuses for a moment (imagine me using the term byzantine meaning "complicated" in OWaP, where Byzantium is very alive and very well, and I think you might know what I mean). Plus that Greek just feels out of place, especially since it's set in an introspective context ("despite of it, Mun'at's soul was heavy"), working a bit counter to the Arabian ambience which you otherwise work on, and successfully so, if I might add).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilo11 View Post
    @7: I think Cook is still not totally happy with it, but I am, because, as you said, it could have gone off the rails quickly. I know how it could plausibly have worked out as I hint afterward, but there is no way I could have written that scene out and had it not end in blood, and likely death, which would have killed the whole story arc. So I stand by my choice, even if it was possibly somewhat contrived.
    Since you're talking about it again, I might mention I have that same Mubsamat problem myself, which is why I've held off posting that next part yet.
    I too have a story element I don't want to go off rails, but at the same time find a bit hard to cut off without risking a plot hole.

    I still think Mubsamat missed out of a defining moment, though I do agree that you as the captain need to feel it and steer clear of waters you deem unsafe.

    On a much more serious sidenote: I was happy to notice you fixed the bug I mentioned earlier. Then I tried to click the link to read part VIII. My tender heart was broken yet again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
    Qualis noncives pereo! #justiceforcookie #egalitéfraternitécookié #CLM

  3. #183

    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: May 31]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    - Very nice new part (goes without saying, but felt like saying it regardless)
    Hey man, glad you liked it! And thanks for specific points you mentioned. I'm gonna hit them one by one, cause I actually am not sure about a couple, and would like your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    - I'm somewhat surprised to see the Houthi's here. Is it a common name or was there an ancient tribe by that same name? Because the Houthi's of today cannot be related to them in any way.
    So, what do you mean by this, and do you have any specific information to your point that the contemporary Houthi tribe was not there at that time (i.e. some info on migration patterns of that tribe)? I have been super hard pressed to find any reliable data on anything more than broad migration patterns, and so I just went with picking out some tribes that made sense to me. I figured that since the Yememi plateau is so rich, tribes would have stayed there rather than emigrating to somewhere else, thus making it plausible that contemporary populations can likely be tracked to the same ethnic groups from earlier eras. Do you have info to the contrary though? And if so, would you happen to know who would have been there instead? This point is important to me because I would like these little historical details to be right, but I just don't know how to verify these types of things, so if you know, do tell!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    - Choice of words is maybe a tad too sophisticated even for me. I don't actually mind it personally, and this part had me look up and thereby improve my English in spite of all the American; but it had me confused/somewhat mixed in a couple of places:
    -- "umbra mountains" - no idea if umbra is meant as a word (does it mean something like shadowy?) or if it's a name (in which case it would have to be capitalised?)
    -- "arcadian landscape" isn't an expression most international readers are familiar with, and I'm not sure if all native English speakers are. Also, since your story is placed in the antiquity, when Arcadia was still alive and well, that confuses for a moment (imagine me using the term byzantine meaning "complicated" in OWaP, where Byzantium is very alive and very well, and I think you might know what I mean). Plus that Greek just feels out of place, especially since it's set in an introspective context ("despite of it, Mun'at's soul was heavy"), working a bit counter to the Arabian ambience which you otherwise work on, and successfully so, if I might add).
    -"Umbra" is a misspelling from me : I had in mind the color umber and my brain chose umbra (probably because it has a nicer ring to it), and I failed to catch the mistake. Fixing it now!
    -"Arcadian" is something that I also was not sure of, for the exact reasons you point out. My problem is that there is no other word I can think of or find that captures that idea correctly. I have been careful throughout to not use imagery that relies on modern things (for example, check back and I reference iron a lot, but never steel), and this breaks that spirit in a bad way, but I really just can't think of a replacement. I'll look at it again though and see what can't be done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Since you're talking about it again, I might mention I have that same Mubsamat problem myself, which is why I've held off posting that next part yet.
    I too have a story element I don't want to go off rails, but at the same time find a bit hard to cut off without risking a plot hole.

    I still think Mubsamat missed out of a defining moment, though I do agree that you as the captain need to feel it and steer clear of waters you deem unsafe.
    Hah. Take that dude!

    But more seriously, I know your pain. It can be tough in that situation to balance moving the plot where it needs to go, taking opportunities for character development, and not letting things fly off the rails. If you're willing to take advice on it, I'd say just to write it out and get the post up, and then we can discuss any potential improvements then. I think for you half the battle is just letting go and writing it out. So that would be my advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    On a much more serious sidenote: I was happy to notice you fixed the bug I mentioned earlier. Then I tried to click the link to read part VIII. My tender heart was broken yet again.
    It's gonna keep happening. You're just gonna have to learn to deal with it.
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  4. #184
    Cookiegod's Avatar CIVUS DIVUS EX CLIBANO
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    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: May 31]

    The current Houthis are unofficially called that because of their leaders family name. It's not a tribal organisation, but a religious one (Zaidi Islam) with the official name "Ansarullah" (supporters of god). The leading family, and many of its supporters, do of course belong to a minor tribe called Houthi, but it's a kinda small one and because of that I'd wager they're probably not that old (relatively speaking). But also: They're quite small. Small ones don't last that long usually. So what you're perhaps looking for are the Banu Hamdan/Hamdanids, who are mentioned in Sabaic enscriptions. But maybe this tribal confederation is again a bit too big, and you're far more the expert. You could just continue calling them the Houthis. It's not completely unreasonable. Though certain tribes did branch out and migrate.

    Basically I was more asking than criticising on that one. It could be that a Houthi tribe already existed as part of the Hamdanids at that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
    Qualis noncives pereo! #justiceforcookie #egalitéfraternitécookié #CLM

  5. #185
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    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: May 31]

    Glad it is of help for you. Hey, come on, just because I'm a picture guy doesn't mean I am scared by text-only stories. I would've missed out on some exceptional gems otherwise.

    You have me hooked with Prophet Mun'at's (Munahed, Mohammed?) rendezvous with the Saba. The Saba are a very exotic and interesting faction in EB.

    Fun fact: I read the recent parts of your AAR in the garden. It made me get a sunburn, adding to the atmosphere of this story.

    @14: Yeah, that is my most valuable resource for a lot of this. The main reason I want a good map though is for names of things. Wadis may have changed (and changed name), but the general geography is very much the same due to how climate is there. And I don't necessarily need the era-appropriate names for everything (how could I even find that?), but I would like at least some name for all geographical features where a description is worth giving. I've managed so far, but if you come across a good map of the area with local names for features, you send it my way!
    Not wadi specific but I found the UNESCO World Heritage List to be very useful. Not only is it a reliable source regarding cultural and natural highlights but also has a very useful, improved version of Google Maps running, showing the features of the land on a relief-based map very well.
    Every so little help can be useful, so perhaps this is a nice link for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilo11 View Post
    I love getting work on it done, and my main reason for "stressing" is not cause I am really stressed, but more that I wish I was working on it more.
    A very good point and sometimes the only way to get something rolling.
    *Looks at Cookie and myself* Although I'm not so sure anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Critique, definitely not as a list(!):
    - [...]
    - [...]
    This is still a list, even though you hide it behind irony and the omission of BB-Codes.
    Betraying people is ok but false lists are unacceptable. Atone for your sins at once!

  6. #186

    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: May 31]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Houthi/Hamdan stuff
    Hmm... I know I've used the subgroups of Banu Hamdan before in the updates, referencing both the Hashid and Bakil clans (I think that's in the first update with Mubsamat), but I wouldn't want to use the overall group name for two reasons. First, it captures too much for what I am trying to evince here, which is the fragmentariness of tribal societies, and so using the name for the larger tribal group undermines that to a small extent. But second, and more importantly, from what I've read the core of Banu Hamdan (aside from the aforementioned Hashid and Bakil tribes) resided/resides further north, up around Qarnawu and Najran, making it more likely that the group would have been more aligned with the kingdom of Ma'in (Minaeans). I will think about it more, but maybe I'll change every instance of "Houthi" to "Hashid", which takes care of your concern while keeping things at the level of individual tribes here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    Glad it is of help for you. Hey, come on, just because I'm a picture guy doesn't mean I am scared by text-only stories. I would've missed out on some exceptional gems otherwise.

    You have me hooked with Prophet Mun'at's (Munahed, Mohammed?) rendezvous with the Saba. The Saba are a very exotic and interesting faction in EB.
    Good to hear! And the Saba are indeed a cool faction. Right after starting the Nabati campaign I started one as Saba', both to get some information on that faction for the AAR, and just because it is really cool. The government of Saba' is also an interesting thing in EBII, and worth checking out more fully! (Pro tip, for checking out governments in the mod, have a look at the player guide that has been put together!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    Fun fact: I read the recent parts of your AAR in the garden. It made me get a sunburn, adding to the atmosphere of this story.
    Hah. Sorry about that. Next time I'll try to keep it short enough that readers outside won't be burned

    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    Not wadi specific but I found the UNESCO World Heritage List to be very useful. Not only is it a reliable source regarding cultural and natural highlights but also has a very useful, improved version of Google Maps running, showing the features of the land on a relief-based map very well.
    Every so little help can be useful, so perhaps this is a nice link for you.
    Thanks for the link! The relief map is indeed very high quality, and really easy to view and follow. I'll definitely have a closer look at that when I need to see where the army is moving next!

    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    This is still a list, even though you hide it behind irony and the omission of BB-Codes.
    Betraying people is ok but false lists are unacceptable. Atone for your sins at once!
    He put up another update, so I guess we can consider his sins atoned.


    EDIT: One last quick thing (mainly for Cookiegod):
    Quote Originally Posted by Cook
    "Arcadian" is the wrong word to use, for various and compelling reasons
    Would you mind having a quick look at the first paragraph of Part VII again, to see if my change for "Arcadian" sounds good to you? I know it works technically speaking, but I'm wondering if the ring of it is right.
    Last edited by Kilo11; June 04, 2019 at 09:14 AM.
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  7. #187
    Cookiegod's Avatar CIVUS DIVUS EX CLIBANO
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    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: May 31]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilo11 View Post
    EDIT: One last quick thing (mainly for Cookiegod):
    Would you mind having a quick look at the first paragraph of Part VII again, to see if my change for "Arcadian" sounds good to you? I know it works technically speaking, but I'm wondering if the ring of it is right.
    The replacement seems worse imo. Pastoral is connected to pasture and thus to a landscape that has human influence. So a landscape like those in Wales and New-Zealand where you have lots of sheep farms I'd consider pastoral. What you're trying to go for here is that the scenery is rugged, yet beautiful terrain untouched by humans, right? I'd go for "idyllic scenery", but if the choice is between arcadian & pastoral I'd go for the former.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
    Qualis noncives pereo! #justiceforcookie #egalitéfraternitécookié #CLM

  8. #188

    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: May 31]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    The replacement seems worse imo. Pastoral is connected to pasture and thus to a landscape that has human influence. So a landscape like those in Wales and New-Zealand where you have lots of sheep farms I'd consider pastoral. What you're trying to go for here is that the scenery is rugged, yet beautiful terrain untouched by humans, right? I'd go for "idyllic scenery", but if the choice is between arcadian & pastoral I'd go for the former.
    Meh. For some reason I have always hated the word idyllic. To me it is just such a lazy term, as it's so generic and unhelpful as far as imagery goes. This is not to defend my choice, as I am not myself 100% behind it, but I wouldn't think of pastoral as necessarily having anything to do with a landscape that has human influence. In fact, I think rather of steppe country that is not touched by human hands at all, but is pasture through and through. I'll have to think about it more. That word is important to me, as it sums up a general feel and needs to be right (at least, it does for me to be happy about it), and so far none of the options that have come to my mind really fit. I'll think of something though.
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  9. #189

    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: May 31]

    Hey folks, it's been crazy long since the last update, and though I feel I should apologize for the delay, I also feel like those apologies have become somewhat tired. Suffice to say, I have absolutely no intention of abandoning this work, and will see it through till the end. It is just that with writing a PhD at the same time, I am sometimes very pressed for time, and also out of creative energy for writing (e.g. the past weeks I have been revising a paper for resubmission to a journal, and that has dominated all of my writing since early June). However, I will keep at this as often and as faithfully as I can, and hopefully be able to get back onto some sort of schedule of posting again. Until then, I hope you all forgive my delays, brief absences, and general lack of stable posting habits, and I would like to again say how lovely you bunch are as readers, and how pleased I am to have you all on the journey with me. Please don't give up on me

    And now, to give you something good, here is the next update! Below I've also given a quick reminder of what has happened so far, for those who've somewhat forgotten due to my long delay!
    Recap

    Mun'at and the Nabati have been moving ever southward in the quest to unite the tribes of Arabia. After liberating Tabuk they conquered Dedan and then rescued Yathrib from the imminent ravages of lawless men. Now they are nearing Bakkah, a holy city and neutral territory, where none may shed blood or make war. Meanwhile, Tharin, Queen Mubsamat's lover and captain of guard, waits in Bakkah for the approaching Nabati army. His orders are to convince the northern forces to ally themselves with the Saba' Queen, and if successful, he is to join them on their march south.



    P.s. I also plan to post a new whisky review tonight, so stay tuned for that!
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  10. #190

    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: May 31]

    Continued from Chapter 4 - Part VII


    Dramatis Personae

    Nabati:

    Mun'at Ha'Qadri: General of the Nabati army, tasked with uniting the tribes of Arabia and subduing the Saba' confederations that control Arabia Felix.
    Shullai Ha'Maleki: Prince of the Nabati, riding south under Mun'at's command.
    Ravîv'êl Bikrum: Crown Prince of the Nabati. Currently governing the conquered settlement of Dedan.
    Malka Qênu: King of the Nabati, and leader of the united tribes.

    Rana'in: Elder warrior and long-time friend of Mun'at.
    Khalil: Raider under Mun'at's command, usually tasked with leading the cavalry and light skirmishers.
    Haza'el: Captain of the Nabati.
    Wayyuq: A spy and pathfinder in the service of the Nabati, but not of their tribe.

    Sabeans (Saba'):

    Mubsamat: Queen of the Saba' with ambitions to end the tribal rivalries that plague her people.
    Tharin: Captain of Mubsamat's guard, tasked with contacting the approaching Nabati on Mubsamat's behalf and bringing them over to her cause.
    Lord of the Northpass (Qayl): Ringleader of a group of Saba' nobles arrayed against Mubsamat.
    Halik Il'Yakif: Landowner and noble of the Saba' who initially followed the Qayl's plans but has since been turned by Mubsamat.
    Far'am Rafshan: Half-Qatabani exile in league with the Qayl.
    Karab: Son of the Athtar Yazi' clan and great leader of the Hashidi warriors of the northern plateau. He is also in league with the Qayl against Mubsamat.
    Hasan: Deceased brother of Karab.



    Chapter 4
    New Friends, New Enemies


    --------------------------------------------------
    (Part VIII)


    For four days now Mun'at and his steadily growing band had flitted their way southward over the coastal lowland plain, moving almost carelessly between fishing hamlets on the sea and close villages of date and palm groves clinging to the beds of narrow seasonal rivers or huddled about carefully dug wells. They moved slowly, as much by choice as by the dictates of the ever-shifting land; for the most part their road was comprised of long flats of packed gravel half-hardened by the winter rains, easy going for both men and beasts, but at odd intervals the camels would begin to lurch and strain as the pebbled earth merged into narrow fields of drift-sand humped about larger stones or against the bristling roots of low scrub. They would puff and groan their way forward at an agonizing pace until without warning their path was cut by a broad field of basalt and lighter scoriae, the sudden sureness of footing allowing them to plunge onward briskly to make up for lost time. Each day the land changed, but the sights remained the same. On their right glittered the white-capped waves of the narrow sea, the stripe of water the Greeks called "Erythrà Thálassa", the Red Sea, while to their left rose the rain-wracked serried mass of the Hijaz ranges.

    At Khoreiba the long unbroken string of peaks was breached by Wadi Al-Fora'a, the walls of gray-green granite cut deeply and without mercy. The watershed began as a gully no more than a dozen paces wide where the winter rains would roar forth in a torrent, but as it descended to the broad vale below it slowed and spread, opening into a delta six miles wide. The waters, when they flowed, ran largely underground, seeming loathe to disclose the seasonal river's strength, but the close covering of brush and sturdy thorn trees betrayed the hidden vitality of the place.

    Upon reaching the northern edge of the delta Mun'at looked out and smiled thinly. To either side of the stony riverbeds could be seen the imprints of many feet, their marks fresh, for no sand had yet filled them despite the sighing winds that slipped over the countryside, and the lower foliage of the thorn trees had been closely cropped up to the height of a man. A great party of men and beasts had walked the road recently, heading south, and Mun'at was certain it must have been the comrades they had left south of Yathrib, the Nabati army now commanded by young Shullai, himself herded by the subtler hands of Khalil and one-eyed Haza'el. They could be no more than a half-day's march ahead. The commander out of Edum spurred his mount onward, crying encouragement to the men behind as he did so.

    They crossed the feathered interwoven rivulets of Wadi Al-Fora'a quickly, leaving the cooler ground and foliage behind, and were soon once more striking over hot earth. At first their road wound over a long flat of shattered flint, the black stones shimmering in the afternoon heat, after which they were met with a seemingly interminable plain of limestone packed in leaden gray sand. This they walked for much of the remainder of the day, watching the sun slowly sink in the sky, but an hour before nightfall their way was cut by another lava-field, a great flow of fire-blackened rock heaped into a long finger reaching toward the sea. Mun'at's men carefully skirted the sharp hill's broken edges, herding the camels away lest they lame themselves in the half-light of dusk, and as they came about the western spur of the low mount they found themselves less than a mile from the last stragglers of a great party, its distant vanguard lost in the haze over the horizon. Mun'at's band had regained the Nabati army.

    That night they feasted well, slaughtering six score young goats in defiance of their ever-lightening stock of supplies. The companion cavalry who had ridden the coast road with Mun'at then dispersed into the forest of tents and open-roofed camps, finding their families or close comrades-in-arms, and the general was left with his charge of new recruits, their eyes still wide and jaws gaping on confronting such a tremendous force. Together with Rana'in, Mun'at herded the boys and would-be men to the quarters of the guardsmen, hopeful soldiers not yet of fighting age and old veterans with more scars than teeth whose wounds had rendered war and raiding mere memories. They would teach the shepherds and lesser merchants' sons the ways of spear and ax, that one day they might fight alongside the Nabati warriors, and in the meantime their presence would be put to use securing the flanks of the baggage train during the long march south. With the converts settled amongst their new brothers Mun'at then went to find Khalil, Haza'el, and Shullai, Rana'in walking beside him.



    Continue to Chapter 4 - Part IX
    Last edited by Kilo11; August 12, 2019 at 12:56 AM. Reason: Set link
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  11. #191
    Cookiegod's Avatar CIVUS DIVUS EX CLIBANO
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    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: July 30]

    Hey,
    Great that you're back! I enjoyed this!
    I think there were a couple of comma's missing. And I didn't see the enemies promised in the title!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
    Qualis noncives pereo! #justiceforcookie #egalitéfraternitécookié #CLM

  12. #192
    Turkafinwë's Avatar The Sick Baby Jester
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    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: July 30]

    Hej hej (I think the Swedish have rubbed off on me )

    Indeed welcome back! We all encounter some rough patches when the writing just doesn't come out, myself included (also with writing other papers and a thesis and then festivals and vacation). I think we all want to know the end of this piece of writing!
    To quote a stout and loyal fellow: “Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens."

    A lovely update to ease back into the story!

  13. #193
    Swaeft's Avatar Drama King
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    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: July 30]

    Well, I think you already know what I'm going to say about downtimes between updates since I've done that many times, so I'll skip that and instead say this: Great to see another update!

    With all this information though, you have me wondering what the climax will be about. This seems to continue to be a build up to some sort of crisis or major event that will then shape the direction of the story. Very exciting times, and yeah, what cookie said about the enemies

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  14. #194

    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: July 30]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Hey,
    Great that you're back! I enjoyed this!
    It's good to be back, and I'm glad the re-entry was well-received!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    I think there were a couple of comma's missing. And I didn't see the enemies promised in the title!
    Pics or it didn't happen!

    But more seriously, I'll take another look, but if you saw specific spots where it's missing, do let me know. Also, sorry about the lack of clear enemies. The chapter title is more of a play on the two story arcs going on right now. So it's new friends for the Nabati and new enemies for Mubsamat (though, to be fair, her enemies aren't new; we are just only getting their names and faces in this chapter).

    Quote Originally Posted by Turkafinwë View Post
    Hej hej (I think the Swedish have rubbed off on me )

    Indeed welcome back! We all encounter some rough patches when the writing just doesn't come out, myself included (also with writing other papers and a thesis and then festivals and vacation). I think we all want to know the end of this piece of writing!
    To quote a stout and loyal fellow: “Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens."

    A lovely update to ease back into the story!
    Thanks Turk! I can guarantee that this won't just disappear at any point, so you'll get an ending at some point, though it may be a good ways down the road (for context, I'm planning on ten chapters, and we're just finishing up chapter 4).

    Quote Originally Posted by Swaeft View Post
    Well, I think you already know what I'm going to say about downtimes between updates since I've done that many times, so I'll skip that and instead say this: Great to see another update!

    With all this information though, you have me wondering what the climax will be about. This seems to continue to be a build up to some sort of crisis or major event that will then shape the direction of the story. Very exciting times, and yeah, what cookie said about the enemies
    I am not sure this is "build-up" in the usual sense, given that I am just following their journey. There will obviously be more action as they get into the southland, but I will stay true to the events and story I think, even if that makes it somewhat more dull at times. To me, that is a sort of cool aspect of adventure-story writing, that you can have sections of drawn nothingness to help portray the passage of time or space. In suspense or other genres that isn't usually as accepted, but I feel okay with that in a story like this.
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  15. #195
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    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: May 31]

    A nice chapter with another romantic description of the landscape. You almost make me want to go to Arabia. You're at fault if I get captured.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilo11 View Post
    Mun'at and his steadily growing band
    Just to get an idea, how many men are they now approximately? Or do you intend to let that be up to the imagination of the reader?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilo11 View Post
    It is just that with writing a PhD at the same time, I am sometimes very pressed for time, and also out of creative energy for writing (e.g. the past weeks I have been revising a paper for resubmission to a journal, and that has dominated all of my writing since early June).
    Doing an AAR while writing your PhD can be very though, as I experienced myself.
    Good luck with your work, man! This +rep shall encourage ye further.

  16. #196
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: July 30]

    Like Derc, I'm enjoying your description of the 'ever-shifting land', such as the wadi cut 'deeply and without mercy' and the trees revealing the place's 'hidden vitality' - great phrasing!

  17. #197

    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: July 30]

    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    A nice chapter with another romantic description of the landscape. You almost make me want to go to Arabia. You're at fault if I get captured.
    Hah. I take no responsibility. After all, visiting a dangerous place doesn't mean you have to get captured. Learn more evasive maneuvers Derc!

    Quote Originally Posted by Derc
    Just to get an idea, how many men are they now approximately? Or do you intend to let that be up to the imagination of the reader?
    I am not 100% sure of the answer to that myself. Obviously, the game numbers are not going to be true, but the extrapolations that seemed reasonable given my chats with the EBII team members were leaving me with numbers that on closer examination seemed to be too high. I think in my mind they are about 10,000 strong. I have had some say that number is too high, and that resupply wouldn't be possible, but it seems that there were enough people scattered over the area at that time to allow for 10,000 to be gathered from northern Arabia (which, to stress, is a massive area, roughly comparable to the size of Germany). Moreover, the whole idea of "organizing resupply and logistics" for the army is a notion indicative of a settled mindset, as basically every Arab would know how to find water and pasturage, and all would be more accustomed to periods of hunger thirst followed by plenty. Put shortly, they can handle it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derc
    Doing an AAR while writing your PhD can be very though, as I experienced myself.
    Good luck with your work, man! This +rep shall encourage ye further.
    Tell me about it! But I am committed to both, and both will continue. And hopefully once you've started your next campaign I'll have my rep sorted again and can hit you up with one

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Like Derc, I'm enjoying your description of the 'ever-shifting land', such as the wadi cut 'deeply and without mercy' and the trees revealing the place's 'hidden vitality' - great phrasing!
    Thanks Alwyn. I had a lot of fun with those descriptions, and with some in the coming update as well. Truth be told, I just really like doing landscapes and scene-setting. Language is so malleable and interesting, and I get a lot of enjoyment out of playing with expressions


    And now, here is the final installment for Chapter 4, in which a "New Enemy" is finally given a proper introduction! (And I am not bowing to group pressure by adding that enemy in; it was planned from the start!)
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  18. #198

    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: July 30]

    Continued from Chapter 4 - Part VIII


    Dramatis Personae

    Nabati:

    Mun'at Ha'Qadri: General of the Nabati army, tasked with uniting the tribes of Arabia and subduing the Saba' confederations that control Arabia Felix.
    Shullai Ha'Maleki: Prince of the Nabati, riding south under Mun'at's command.
    Ravîv'êl Bikrum: Crown Prince of the Nabati. Currently governing the conquered settlement of Dedan.
    Malka Qênu: King of the Nabati, and leader of the united tribes.

    Rana'in: Elder warrior and long-time friend of Mun'at.
    Khalil: Raider under Mun'at's command, usually tasked with leading the cavalry and light skirmishers.
    Haza'el: Captain of the Nabati.
    Wayyuq: A spy and pathfinder in the service of the Nabati, but not of their tribe.

    Sabeans (Saba'):

    Mubsamat: Queen of the Saba' with ambitions to end the tribal rivalries that plague her people.
    Tharin: Captain of Mubsamat's guard, tasked with contacting the approaching Nabati on Mubsamat's behalf and bringing them over to her cause.
    Lord of the Northpass (Qayl): Ringleader of a group of Saba' nobles arrayed against Mubsamat.
    Halik Il'Yakif: Landowner and noble of the Saba' who initially followed the Qayl's plans but has since been turned by Mubsamat.
    Far'am Rafshan: Half-Qatabani exile in league with the Qayl.
    Karab: Son of the Athtar Yazi' clan and great leader of the Hashidi warriors of the northern plateau. He is also in league with the Qayl against Mubsamat.
    Hasan: Deceased brother of Karab.



    Chapter 4
    New Friends, New Enemies


    --------------------------------------------------
    (Part IX)


    The next morning they arose as the sky was still dark, the waning crescent moon half-hidden behind the jagged stripe of midnight that marked the eastern horizon. They began walking in silence, enfolding themselves in the still and quiet of pre-dawn, and only when the sun had finally gained the peaks of Hijaz did they allow themselves the comforts of easy speech and occasional song. Their way was much as it had been in the days before, long flats of sand and gravely rock intermixed with flows of knife-edged lava-stone and burning basalt, marks of a time when that land was yet more terrifying than they found it now. They pressed on without mention of it, the new men gradually warming themselves to the soldier's life.

    After three days more of walking the army veered from the coast road, taking a slanting and baked wadi that ran southeast toward a long low spur of Hijaz. With each hour the peaks grew, their lines etched in coarse granite and splintering slate, the lower foothills of sandstone dancing in and out of focus as the afternoon heat slid across the land. Higher and higher rose the wall of earth and stone before them, seeming bent on barring their way, but as they neared the range's scrabbling fletched base the Nabati found a widening cleft opening before them. To east and west the arms of Hijaz stretched out, scratching at the sky and impossibly long, but between them wound a broad road leading to a city sheltered amongst the lower vales of the Barrier Hills. Cradled in Hijaz's embrace lay the Holy City of Bakkah.

    Quickly and without need for command the army of Edum slowed its march and abandoned all thought of its martial dispositions, the soldiers of the vanguard peeling back through the ranks to find their families, creating eddies and countercurrents in the stream of men and beasts. Bows were unstrung and blades packed away, and soon enough they had become nothing more than travelers. Travelers both numerous and moving with a purpose, to be sure, but travelers nonetheless, and no threat with which to be reckoned. To an outsider their actions might have seemed odd, if not outright foolish, to lay away their strength when in a foreign territory, and one which they could not right call "friend", not yet, but Mun'at and his men knew that to raise arms in the vale of Bakkah would be doom for them all. The Holy City was by common law and custom a place of peace, a space set apart from the petty quarrels of the merchant folk and the occasional bloodletting of the raiders and warrior-tribes, and any who breached that law would become enemies to all, beyond the point of redemption or mercy. And so they came as pilgrims, as brothers and sisters for their brief time within the environs of that place, forgetting for at least a moment their past enmities and strife.

    As the Nabati ascended the dusty wadi toward Bakkah the spires of Hijaz began to crowd closer and closer to left and right, slowly transforming their broad avenue into a narrow lane choked between mountains of stone. Mun'at slowed their march further and moved to the head of his men, his eyes flickering from one towering peak to the next, when suddenly he gained a crest in the road and saw spread before him a city of purest white, its edges adorned with long splashes of green and gold, orchards and ripening fields watered by the annual rains that collected in the valley's basin. His eyes then lowered to the way ahead where he saw a small band of men waiting patiently astride the road, a lone individual standing a bowshot ahead of the rest, his gaze locked on the approaching army of Edum.


    He stood at the base of the mountain pass, his legs parted to shoulder-width and set firmly, his eyes unflinching in their survey of the approaching figures. Their progress was slow and they were still far distant, but their warriors' bearing could be plainly seen, even if no weapons were visible among them. Silently, he let out a sigh of relief, for after so long waiting he had begun to fear they might never arrive. Zaadi Il'Bayyin, Lord of the Northpass and King of the Saba', gave an inward word of thanks to the gods and his ancestors, relaxed his stance, and waited patiently for the arrival of his Houthi warbands.



    Continue to Chapter 5 - Part I
    Last edited by Kilo11; October 01, 2019 at 12:36 AM. Reason: Added link
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  19. #199
    Swaeft's Avatar Drama King
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    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: Aug 12]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilo11 View Post
    I am not sure this is "build-up" in the usual sense, given that I am just following their journey. There will obviously be more action as they get into the southland, but I will stay true to the events and story I think, even if that makes it somewhat more dull at times. To me, that is a sort of cool aspect of adventure-story writing, that you can have sections of drawn nothingness to help portray the passage of time or space. In suspense or other genres that isn't usually as accepted, but I feel okay with that in a story like this.
    Well I was referring to the feeling that we are slowly approaching a major conflict, and since we have come quite a long way (you've written quite a lot now, congrats!) I just can't quite seem to pinpoint whether it will be the climax or apex of your story, and that is part of what makes it exciting, but I am also wondering whether you plan on letting the story continue as such - eventually Mun'at and his allies will accomplish their goal, there will be some battles along the way...but I am searching for something deeper that I can't quite make out. Also I seem to be rambling a bit, do pardon me if I'm not making sense here Also...


    An update! Tension is building, and only the brave dare plant themselves in the path of an army, especially when they are so few. I wonder what will happen next...

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  20. #200
    Cookiegod's Avatar CIVUS DIVUS EX CLIBANO
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    Default Re: Written in Sand (Nabataean AAR for EBII)[updated: Aug 12]

    I just realised how stupid I was. I thought that each part had a different title, but now I get that the entire chapter has the same one.

    Those Houthi's gotta be boss like opponents. Can't help but think of those countless videos you can find online where some malnourished, flip flop wearing warriors keep destroying formations with some of the most advanced weaponry the world has to offer... INSIDE Saudi-Arabia. If not one of your guys is gonna wield an AK, I'm gonna be disappointed.

    I think I faintly remember being the one pestering you that your troop numbers were very high. The logistics issue might seem a bit from the settled viewpoint, as you put it, but it's more about small areas of land having to sustain a huge force it wasn't prepared for to begin with. With 10000 men you'll need to have logistics, unless you're living of plundering the conquered territories mongolstyle and only worrying about the short term future.

    Thing is, the larger your army becomes, the more cumbersome and ineffective it also becomes. That's why reasonably sized armies usually fared better than the bloated ones.
    To quote Medieval 2 loading screens: Better to have 10 soldiers where you need them, than to have 10000 where you don't need'em. Mithridates Ktistes, the founder of the kingdom of Pontos, started his journey to conquer a realm for himself with a mighty force of 6 horsemen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
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