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Thread: General improvements to future games

  1. #1

    Default General improvements to future games

    A lot of TW gamers chat about what they would like to see from future games, but almost always in the context of specific games. Here is a thread about what changes you would like to see in future games, regardless of what those games might be.

    To start, regardless of period, future games should have realism in terms of moving armies by sea. Why is it that I can get a full stack army onto a sloop? Surely there should be a limit to the number of troops I can have on one ship.

    Also, why should I be able to move an army any distance without worrying about desertion or lack of supplies. To give an example, in ETW I can march on Moscow without worrying about how to feed my army. Future games should give me a choice of either having baggage wagons with my army or else feeding my army by plundering the land (as Napoleon did).

    Baggage wagons should be recruitable like other military units, but should slow down the army. Living by plunder should be impossible when taking your army through friendly territories, and should increase hostility towards your army when in enemy territory - increasing the likelihood of attack by irregulars.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    All I want are complex modding tools and an at least competent AI.

  3. #3
    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    Quote Originally Posted by LinusLinothorax View Post
    All I want are complex modding tools and an at least competent AI.
    Make two of us...I would replace the word complex with COMPLETE....
    There are moments (in history), in which a nation owes,
    if it wants to be considered as a great one, to be able to fight.
    Even without hope of winning. Just because it has to.
    Greek War motto.
    XXI Armored Brigade. Proud that served in that unit in 1996!
    "Spartans do not ask how many (enemies are) but where they are"!
    XXI Armored Brigade's motto.
    The Greek Secret (or why they will fight again if it will be necessary or why they do not sell their history).


  4. #4

    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    Competent AI for once, just once. An AI that does not depend on excessive cheats to make its way.

    Modding support allowing for overhauls at the scale of Medieval 2 to allow for a game to become immortal beyond its otherwise somewhat simplistic self.

    More smooth pathing and general mechanics to units.

    A return to characters being interesting as a wider push, medieval 2 style where characters could actually be strangely unique.

    Frankly, there's lots of elements I'd like to see come back from the Medieval 2 era. Mixed with a few of the good elements from modern games and one or two tricks from the oldest of total war games, combined with a new level of actually capable AI and some general polish, I think you could get an 'ultimate total war' sort of experience.

  5. #5
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    Quote Originally Posted by olivialees12 View Post
    A lot of TW gamers chat about what they would like to see from future games, but almost always in the context of specific games. Here is a thread about what changes you would like to see in future games, regardless of what those games might be.

    To start, regardless of period, future games should have realism in terms of moving armies by sea. Why is it that I can get a full stack army onto a sloop? Surely there should be a limit to the number of troops I can have on one ship.

    Also, why should I be able to move an army any distance without worrying about desertion or lack of supplies. To give an example, in ETW I can march on Moscow without worrying about how to feed my army. Future games should give me a choice of either having baggage wagons with my army or else feeding my army by plundering the land (as Napoleon did).

    Baggage wagons should be recruitable like other military units, but should slow down the army. Living by plunder should be impossible when taking your army through friendly territories, and should increase hostility towards your army when in enemy territory - increasing the likelihood of attack by irregulars.
    Welcome to TWC, olivialees12! I enjoy Empire Total War and it seems odd to me too that a sloop can carry a full stack army. Yes, desertion and supply issues were important historically, so it would make sense to include them. My only concern is that I wouldn't want to end up needing a spreadsheet to keep track of the supply of food, supply wagons, ammunition and so on for each army.

    In Rome II, the player can choose to put an army in a 'stance', such as forced march and raiding. Each stance has advantages and disadvantages, for example forced march allows faster movement but your army can't recruit units and is vulnerable to ambushes. Maybe a choice of stances be used to create the options of relying on supply lines (which would mean slower movement) or plunder (as you said, which would increase hostility from the population and the owning faction, and which could lead to attacks by irregulars.)
    Last edited by Alwyn; June 03, 2018 at 03:17 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    Quote Originally Posted by olivialees12 View Post
    To start, regardless of period, future games should have realism in terms of moving armies by sea. Why is it that I can get a full stack army onto a sloop? Surely there should be a limit to the number of troops I can have on one ship.
    Even Sid Meier's Colonization (1994) is more realistic in this aspect.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    - a 64 bit engine utilizing at least four cores that is capable of portraying ancient warfare
    - stability
    - a competent AI
    - better modding capabilities (-> total conversions)
    - more settlement types (for example cities and castles)
    - more building slots
    - mass and collision system like in Medieval II
    - Medieval II animation system instead of Warscape 1vs1 forced duel system
    - old region system
    - manpower and logistics
    - real time campaign like Knights of Honor
    My Mods:
    RCM 2 for Medieval II Total War Kingdoms
    A battle realism mod for all four Medieval II Total War Kingdoms campaigns

    Shogun II Total Realism
    A realism mod for Shogun II, Rise of the Samurai and Fall of the Samurai

  8. #8

    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    If I had to choose one improvement from a long list of stuff then I would go for more sophisticated combat AI and more realistic battles. Clicking an ever growing number of special ability buttons and keeping track of statistics doesn't really do it for me. And maybe tone down the laser light shows and luminous eruptions cascading over the battlefields. I don't need throbbing orbs to tell me where a gate is, I can see it perfectly well.

  9. #9

    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    nobody wants bigger battles ? imo by this time we should have had realistic battle sizes reaching up to 100k men

    would gladly trade graphics in exchange for that, the reason i started playing TW is beause of the screenshots showing thousands of soldiers fighting

    i think graphics should have just stopped at med2 and they should have instead focued on everything else, and this is probably one of the biggest problems with tw, they dont seem to build on what they have and expand, instead they completely reinvent the wheel with every new game and many great features are left out

  10. #10
    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    What is the point to have huge number of soldiers in the field when they wont know what to do? Most of others requests do not over load a game but a game that would have such number of soldiers in one battle would require a monster PC. After all huge number units can not fit on settlement walls as ALL TW games proved.
    There are moments (in history), in which a nation owes,
    if it wants to be considered as a great one, to be able to fight.
    Even without hope of winning. Just because it has to.
    Greek War motto.
    XXI Armored Brigade. Proud that served in that unit in 1996!
    "Spartans do not ask how many (enemies are) but where they are"!
    XXI Armored Brigade's motto.
    The Greek Secret (or why they will fight again if it will be necessary or why they do not sell their history).


  11. #11
    Huberto's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    Quote Originally Posted by Dekhatres View Post
    nobody wants bigger battles ? imo by this time we should have had realistic battle sizes reaching up to 100k men

    would gladly trade graphics in exchange for that, the reason i started playing TW is beause of the screenshots showing thousands of soldiers fighting

    i think graphics should have just stopped at med2 and they should have instead focued on everything else, and this is probably one of the biggest problems with tw, they dont seem to build on what they have and expand, instead they completely reinvent the wheel with every new game and many great features are left out
    I'm not sure the problem is graphics/CPU limitations. I think the problem is largely that
    CA is wedded to a very specific (and at this point boring) "real time strategy" approach for battles that emphasizes micro management. This has sort of reached its absurd zenith in Warhammer and by neccessity must limit army size, because there are only so many units a player can micro.

    What they should do is experiment with different battle systems, for example having the player is restricted to a specific sector of the battle for a time while the rest of the army is led by friendly AI fighting according to broad orders. I imagine a timer that covers 5 minutes, then would reset and allows the player to pick a different sector of the battle to manage. This would work great for gunpowder games and could allow for deployments of 50K plus per side. Needs a good BAI though but I dream of this approach. Best of both worlds.

  12. #12
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    Quote Originally Posted by Destin Faroda View Post
    - a 64 bit engine utilizing at least four cores that is capable of portraying ancient warfare
    - stability

    - more settlement types (for example cities and castles)
    - more building slots

    - old region system
    - real time campaign like Knights of Honor
    -WHs and 3K are running 64 bits and it is showing with much better performance, CAīs own words were there are now barely scratching potential.
    -stability with 64 bits is quite good.

    -WH allows gate settlements in Ulthuan basically working like gates on campaign. But ability to build on map forts or having special settlements would be nice.
    -slots..just wrote into similar post, it could be crackable :-) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post15601141
    -Whs are allowing more slot in province capitol, basically any number. But minors are sadly limited to 4. I hope they will unlock this in future...

    -old region system is in my opinion worse than current province/region system. But it needs some tweaks. Thatīs for sure.
    -real time is bad system. This is one feature that will probably turn me away...battles ok, campaign map not.

    EDIT: with laboratory mode in WH2 CA wanted some feedback how certain combinations are running. There are people outside able to run much more bigger
    Last edited by Daruwind; June 03, 2018 at 03:06 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    What is the point to have huge number of soldiers in the field when they wont know what to do? Most of others requests do not over load a game but a game that would have such number of soldiers in one battle would require a monster PC. After all huge number units can not fit on settlement walls as ALL TW games proved.
    i want most of my battles to actually look like battles and not like some random skirmishes thank you very much

    i am not saying every battle should reach 100k, just that we could actually have most battles hover around 40-70k in total and reaching 100k sometimes

  14. #14

    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    I have a crazy idea, how about SEGA deciding to stop preventing their games from being sold on GOG, while there is still a little hope that this great selling platform remain a unique place?

    Before I go on, I am no pirate of steam, since I don't want any of this malware, even pirated on my harddrives.

    My point is that not everybody might pirate steam for a question of money. It might be to have a game copy that work without internet requirement to install and launch, nor to have a online malware spying on them while the game is running. And that will keep working on any computer without internet, because I am sorry but steam are loaning, they aren't selling.

    Digital distribution doesn't mean a mandatory need for internet beyond downloading a offline installer, like the GOG selling platform proved it for years.
    I never liked steam but I used to be less pissed off, until recently when I saw a very disturbing line in a few of my games on my GOG account. I am sure other GOG customers will know what I am talking about.

    Then I discovered that the pure offline installers were still there, only hidden but I still made a run of my backup installers copy, and quickly downloaded those I were missing, the pure offlines installers, those without this move that GOG pulled of integrating the optional galaxy client within the others. Before I come back to my account one day to discover that there is no 'option' anymore and that GOG became steam bis. With me not really being a online guy when I am not modding, I might just find out a year after it happened, that GOG finally crossed the line where they will have sold out, gave in to the publishers like, well SEGA, that don't want to hear of people which don't want any of their beloved malware 'clients'.

    Maybe I will cross a line myself that day. But it won't be to give in to steam and publishers blackmail, that's for sure.

    This might seem off topic but I don't think so or I woudn't post. How can I care about any post M2TW games when I can't play them? So that's the improvement I want before even deciding of what quality are rome 2, Attila or whatever I would gladly try otherwise, if only to make my own idea of these games.

  15. #15

    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    Something that always bothered me about TW, is the marketing campaign, first we see a fancy trailer, then we see battle graphics, then we see battle gameplay, and only at the last part of the marketing, when the game is almost done, do we see some campaign footage. And it's always the same mechanics, overhyped by some b$ political narrative.

    They really need to understand the battles are just fine, it's the campaign that sucks, WORK ON THE CAMPAIGN.

    And about the battle numbers discussion, I agree, I would like it very much if they stopped pushing the graphics, and started pushing the scale. I would rather play with M2TW graphics and 40K per army than the current graphics and less than 8K total. It just ruins the immersion, which brings me to the next point: the campaign is designed for an absurd number of small armies. Battles should be scarse and decisive, losing one should really put you in a bad position. I would also like the diplomacy of war had more sense, I think paradox manages the war aspect a lot better, the war is decided by a general score.
    Last edited by Sir Sesshaku; June 07, 2018 at 09:21 AM.

  16. #16
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    Quote Originally Posted by Dekhatres View Post
    i want most of my battles to actually look like battles and not like some random skirmishes thank you very much

    i am not saying every battle should reach 100k, just that we could actually have most battles hover around 40-70k in total and reaching 100k sometimes
    You actually can taste much larger battles. Technology is almost there. In WH2 we can try Laboratory mode to play with some settings like physics, gravity,... unit size and others. CA said they are looking at feedback and stats for future. I just saw one reddit post and remembered what you ask for.. I know it is not 100% what you wanted but i would take it as glimpse of future. :-)
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...t_entertained/
    Last edited by Daruwind; June 09, 2018 at 07:31 AM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    The wargamer inside of me speaks

    To increase battle size one aspect they could do is simply change the scale of the figures and also the terrain. So if this was a table top wargame using 25mm scale miniatures (1/76th scale or OO gauge for model railways) where 1 foot equals 4mm use 15mm (1/120th scale) or even use 6mm (1/300th scale). People who like to zoom in would be disappointed if you used an equavalent 1/300th scale but you would certainly get more than the example posted of 18000 v 60000 or a more comfortable method to run such an example.

    I'm a great fan of 1/300th scale first coming accross for wargaming with microarmour and even here the infantry looks good even doing Napoleonics look good at this scale as your are dealing with blocks of infantry, cavalry etc.

    If you wanted to go even further use 2d sprites

    Certainly will get a larger sense of scale than Scrouge of War Waterloo has which is vastly larger scale than a battlefield in Napoleon Total War

  18. #18

    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    This boils down to opinion of course, but I'd prefer seeing more interesting engagements and mechanics and battle details over raw numbers of troops on the field. Unpopular opinion, but I've always liked the numbers seen in current total war games. What I'd prefer to see is more detail in what is there, rather than adding more fluff men for the sake of scale. But that's a matter of personal preference.

    Still, in light of braindead AI and other issues, I'd consider scale to be one of the last serious priorities, even if I would agree that for sheer authenticity it should be a priority down the line.

  19. #19

    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    This boils down to opinion of course, but I'd prefer seeing more interesting engagements and mechanics and battle details over raw numbers of troops on the field. Unpopular opinion, but I've always liked the numbers seen in current total war games. What I'd prefer to see is more detail in what is there, rather than adding more fluff men for the sake of scale. But that's a matter of personal preference.

    Still, in light of braindead AI and other issues, I'd consider scale to be one of the last serious priorities, even if I would agree that for sheer authenticity it should be a priority down the line.
    Agreed. The desire for huge battles is a fetish for some players but it wouldn't actually improve gameplay. Animations and graphics would have to be dumbed down so the game would only look better zoomed out, but not up close. Also, realistic battle sizes + realistic kill rates (which players always want in mods) = realistic battle lengths. Battles going on for 3+ hours is not my idea of fun.

  20. #20
    The Wandering Storyteller's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: General improvements to future games

    A night mode for campaign.





















































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