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Thread: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

  1. #1

    Default [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    Hey,

    first of all I have to thank our modders for this masterpiece. I waited so long and this is just the Beta of it. I LOVE it. Thank you guys!

    After three days I think I slowly understood the mechanics and the economy system. I was a bit overwhelmed by the historical facts (f.e. with the parthian buildings - so much detail) and the totally new system behind this mod.
    I thought maybe some other people have the same problem.

    I have to say that English isn't my first language but I try it. Feel free to correct me or give better advice. These tips are for Romans, because most of you will play as Romans like I've seen in the poll Maybe Parthia will follow but for now I try to explain it with the example of Rome.



    A. Mainproblem - The start
    Like everything else in life the start is the toughest. In every campaign I played we face these two d*amn problems: public ordner (PO) and money.

    I. Frist problem: Public Ordner
    1. The problem itself
    It's a doom loop. I always had no money, because the public order was so low that the tax rate was at -100 %, even free them from taxes will give you just 2 PO points more. So you can't win that way. Without PO I won't generate enough money, so less PO. Less PO, less money and boom you can't play over round 20.
    2. Solution
    You can install the softcore submod http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ore-(Optional) OR you can make it own your own.
    a) Governors
    A key postion is the politic system. Aedile generates 2 PO in the governed province, the tribune of the Plebs generates 1 PO in ALL provinces! That's a huge buff. Make sure you give these postions to the best characters which are the governors of the top 2 / 3 worst provinces. Good characters with badass cursus honorium (Aedile etc) make the difference!

    UPDATE 2.0:
    b) Food
    Grain storages are useless right now. In the next patches grain storages will become more effective again but right now it's better to build farms. Notice there are three kinds of food.
    If you have some serious food problem with the newest patches like me, you have to build more ports. To be precise you have to build fishing ports. Why? Because fish is in summer AND winter available while in winter your grain harvest drops badly. So you have to found another solution.
    The solution is quite simple: "If they have no bread, let them eat ... fish!"

    [OLD: Build grain storage, this are essencial for your next 10 rounds. If the plebs is hungry you'll notice that in PO. So FIRST target with your money: BUILD GRAIN STORAGE / in Ajax the local fisheries (80 food and 120 fish as tradeable ressource) and the Forum Piscarium (20 food and 105 fish). This is your MAIN task in the first round. Have to improve your food system and storage. Notice there are three kinds of food.]

    c) Amicus et Socius
    The Amicus et Socius is the most important thing to reduce the angryness of the plebs. From - 20 to 0 in 1 round. Amicus et Socius needs just 1 round to be build and only costs 600 denary. First target of these buildings is Macedon and Spain.

    UPDATE:
    d) Public Fountains, public wells and Aqueducts
    Every historian says that the key role for the great empire of rome was: water. Beside roads, standing armies and the whole organisation of the state, water was the most important thing to rule, because people needed water to live.
    So check out the sanitation & squalor icon (the green / red fountain icon in every city) and build at least one public well. Why? Look at the tier 2 = +1 fertility. That's a major buff, because with more fertility you pick more grain. More grain to eat, more grain to export and sell, more grain for your armies and citizens. If you still have to deal with PO problems build public fountains.

    e)Temples
    If you have money left you can build temples but I didn't need them because Amicus et Socius solved the PO problem for me.

    f) Interim result
    Congratulations, you solved the first task and you should have a much better PO.



    II. Second problem: Money
    1. The Problem itself

    "Warfare needs three things: money, money and money" - Gian Giacomo Trivulzio

    2. Solution
    With this in your mind you can focus on the next target. The money problem. Even when Amicus et Socius gives you more taxes because more PO means more taxes, you need more. Much more.
    a) Trade
    Trade with everybody you can and demand money for it. As much as they can give you. You need it more than them Build two ships. One goes to Britannia and the other to Anatolia. You have to find more trade partners. But beware! Those barbarians could start a war with you! But for now you're safe when Armenia declares war on you but maybe others could follow their example ...

    b) Buildings
    You need to check which ressources you have. With Rome you have fish, olive oil, silver, gold, salt, wine, marble, iron and timber. Gold is the most expensive thing after Elephants. So build Gold Smelt Works etc for gold and silver. You have to calculate if the ressource makes more money than it's maintenance! For example Malaca gives 40 gold x 27 (value) = 1.080 with tier 1. Tier 2 building gives you 80 gold, so 2.080, 100% more money with 640 maintenance cost. Build Quarries those push your economy.



    B. Result:
    After 2 rounds:
    7.000 in Winter and 10.000 in summer.
    from 0 to 15 public order each round and better.


    I hope this helps you out if you stuck like me three days on the first 30 rounds
    Last edited by Nihahs; August 10, 2018 at 10:00 AM.

  2. #2
    Joysong's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    nice work man!
    ;
    Campaign modder - Culture/AI/BAI - DB Editing

  3. #3

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    I'm glad you like it. I hope other people will give some feedback too.

    Atm I'm in round 20 and make 20.000 denarii each turn and every settlement is at least over 50 PO (most are over 90), so my little tutorial works Three full stacks but Hannibal was too strong after his defeat against Scipio so I can't beat him right now. The next 5 years Hannibal will be dead on the ground of the razed city formelly known as Carthage

  4. #4

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    I've created a shortcut for my desktop. Thanks for the info. I don't have as much problem with $$ or PO but with supplying my legions. Does this method solve a supply problem??

    zimm out

  5. #5

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    Love it, and I think it does an excellent job putting out the information in a well ordered mannered. Great work!

    I would like to tack on a few things I noticed as well, that took me a bit to realize.

    Governors
    These are guys you need to keep a very, VERY close eye on. The reason being is traits. Every turn or two your generals and governors will get 1-3 random traits, often as not bad ones. You can handle a few without issues, but some of them are real game changers. I have replaced a level 3 governor before with an unknown level one and instantly went from -13 PO a turn to +2, as well as increased my taxes from -20% to +5%. It wasn't that the new guy was great, he was actually just moderate, rather how horrible the old guy had been with traits. Massive PO issues, sanitation problems, and things of that nature had him running the place down. With the ancillaries tacked on, the level 1 guy was a huge turn around. So keep a close eye on these guys and replace them when needed. Levels in this mod aren't that incredibly powerful, thankfully, so its not a huge problem to replace a guy going downhill, even a leveled on.

    Money
    Money hurts at first, as noted, but I found the best strategy is to focus on Italia and the islands first. You can build these places up rather quickly (upgraded well in Italia to curb sanitation issues first and foremost) and at 30 turns in I am seeing those provinces worth 10-12k easily a turn with a decent governor. This has the "Raised Taxes" edict, and they still have +PO, so it works very well. Continue to improve here as most of your provinces will pay less with the tax breaks you grant to lower their PO issues. Also, worry about trade agreements foremost to any income. It doesn't fluctuate, so if it is worth 300 gold a turn, that is ALWAYS 300 gold, winter or summer, which helps keep you stable. Trade goods now are almost always worth building, even if just a little extra gold, but some are worth a fair bit extra (anything worth 6+ seems to be a heavy focus), though wood is needed for your own buildings so get that. AI doesn't seem to build many trade goods, so you need to build your own for your needs. Wood and Marble are important in your own economy.

    War
    Carthage isn't an option, so fight them and sack the city. I sacked and turned around and liberated the faction there for a strong ally to compliment your starting ally there. It allowed my to run my one army around back and forth sacking different cities in Africa and healing with two different allied nations to support me. From there, I focused on taking the other island (can't remember the name) as well as starting to consolidate Italy proper. I go to war as needed, but try not to over extend since at first it is hard to raise armies and keep them. As a note, once your economy is stable, you can raise an entire legion in 2 turns in Roma, so you can always have a small stack ready to be grown in one turn to protect the homeland if desired instead of wasting money with a standing army that could be fighting wars and winning gold, not costing it. I haven't wared in Spain yet, but that is my next target after I clear up the Greeks.

    Culture
    This is a hard one. Attila has religion, this is the same thing but much harder to work with. Many of the lands have very high native influences you cannot stop. Some parts of Spain have around 15 local traditions for a single type, making a replacement of culture next to impossible. So don't bother, build PO to counter it and as noted in the OP, use the town center to decrease the unrest a lot. For me, a culture fight hasn't really been worth it. Even in Roma I seem to have -10 or so unrest due to native issues, so I rather focus on building things for PO to counter the 10-15 extra unrest instead of massive culture focus. Seems to be working out, and feels more authentic since Rome really didn't try to convert people outside of Italy, they just subjugated them.

    Otherwise, the guide is really great and right along with my own experiences. Have fun, restart a lot to learn, and trade.
    It is what it is, nothing more, nothing less
    In life, pain and death are the only things shared by everyone

  6. #6

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    Great, thanks for the additional information

  7. #7

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    Pretty good information in this thread, I was recall struggling at first and didn't have enough time to read up on the different building chains I have, this thread put me on the right track so Thank you and +rep.

  8. #8

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer1lb View Post
    Does this method solve a supply problem??
    Sorry, I forgot to answer you. What do you mean by supply problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by kanzy View Post
    Pretty good information in this thread, I was recall struggling at first and didn't have enough time to read up on the different building chains I have, this thread put me on the right track so Thank you and +rep.
    You're welcome.

  9. #9

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    How do you guys deal with loyalty?

    Playing as the Seleucid Empire, money and PO are not my main problem - the dwindling loyalty of my governors and generals is!
    I know that influence plays a role - particularly if a governor or general has more influence than your faction leader.
    Apart from that, I don't know what to do about it.

  10. #10

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    At the moment I suffer from the same problem. My patriach is a woman because the sons weren't old enough to reign Rome I'll have to kill her. After I found a solution I'll post it

  11. #11

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    Max out magna gracia first. Just put all your resources into that. Put sextus as the governor. Magna gracia can get to 15-20k really fast if you focus on it. I guess you could do italy as well, but it will be harder because you won't be able to up the main settlements without heavy investment in sanitation that takes a lot of turns to get rolling. I think the big lesson is don't spread your resources over too many provinces, stick to one or two and ignore the others as much as you can. If there is about to be a revolt just uncheck "tax this province", that should stabilise it so you don't have to send troops there.

    I don't believe in grain storage, i think its a waste of a slot compared to an estate or other sort of farm.

  12. #12

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    Hey guys, how can I get the Marian reforms ? Research or somehow ? What are the requirements ?
    And what is the barrack ? I can only build some garrison buildings
    Last edited by vodangvn1; May 28, 2018 at 08:56 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    As far as I know you have to research the Marian Reforms.

    Barracks are only for experience and garrison etc not for recruiting like in vanilla. AE uses AOR. Until the Marian Reforms you can only recruit hastati, princeps and triarii in Italy. After the reforms you have to follow this Legion AOR map for recruiting (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-and-Resources) My last update was that the AOR system is bugged and they're working on it. Maybe they fixed it already.

  14. #14

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    I have many questions:

    - Sanitation is a big deal too, should I prioritize it over granaries and native discontent?
    - How many granaries do I need per province, just 1? How do they work exactly? My understanding is that they store summer+fall surplus food to use during winter. But then some provinces just don't produce enough food. How should I deal with this, when I also have to deal with public order issues? Is importing food worth it?
    - Where do I need Amicus at Socius exactly? I would say everywhere instead of the Italian peninsula, but even Magna Graecia has pretty big native discontent, as well as Caralis and Ajax, both starting with the tributary settlement building which is a bit misleading because Latin culture is low. Would converting them be a good idea?

    My plan is to:
    - get at least one granary in every province
    - get fish or farms wherever food is needed
    - get aqueducts or wells wherever sanitation is low
    - build up resource buildings for trading, starting with the gold in Malaca
    - convert every settlement to Amicus et Socius everywhere except in Italia and Magna Graecia

    Should I be good? Any other tips? Anything else I might have missed? What would be good specialized provinces? What would be good recruitment provinces?

  15. #15

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    Quote Originally Posted by synagas View Post
    Rome really didn't try to convert people outside of Italy, they just subjugated them.
    But most conquered territories eventually converted didn't they? Inhabitants actually needed to work towards embracing Roman culture because that was a requirement to being granted Roman citizenship. I am pretty sure they actively wanted to be Roman rather than defending their local traditions with teeth and nails. Does the mod reflect this behavior in any way? I may be completely mistaken though.

  16. #16

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    Grannaries are totaly useless, independet state put in every town for spain and macedonia, when you defeat hannibal move scipio to palma to capture it to reduce native discontent and ensure you 3/3 town. focus getting in spain first 3/3 towns for every province at start but for that it will take you money. trade with everyone and don't provoce gauls since they are sons of and will unite and poke u every turn. Once you caputre 3/3 regions for all starting provinces move to gaul and get the next 2 provinces under your control- after that baricade on top and move to carthage

  17. #17

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    Granaries are only useless right now, they will soon be very useful once we add in their correct effects back in.
    Vespasian's own: Up the Augusta! For Cato!

    AE: Battle Balancing and BAI.

  18. #18

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    No need to change the cities in the islands; leave them as tribute cities. Put one of your four governors there, bread and circus edict, build an arena. Then lots of fish and sanitation.

  19. #19

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    Quote Originally Posted by danielahmed View Post
    Grannaries are totaly useless, independet state put in every town for spain and macedonia, when you defeat hannibal move scipio to palma to capture it to reduce native discontent and ensure you 3/3 town. focus getting in spain first 3/3 towns for every province at start but for that it will take you money. trade with everyone and don't provoce gauls since they are sons of and will unite and poke u every turn. Once you caputre 3/3 regions for all starting provinces move to gaul and get the next 2 provinces under your control- after that baricade on top and move to carthage
    I am not sure I understand what you mean with "focusing 3/3 towns".

  20. #20

    Default Re: [Tutorial] How to ... The Romans

    Quote Originally Posted by Petellius View Post
    Granaries are only useless right now, they will soon be very useful once we add in their correct effects back in.
    So why did OP listed building granaries as essential first steps?

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