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Thread: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

  1. #1
    paleologos's Avatar You need burrito love!!
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    Default Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

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    After just another killing spree in a high school does anyone here keep their fingers crossed for any real gun regulation to be made law in the U.S.A., or would the country have to wait until the witnesses of such events grow up and start voting?

    The parts of the story that (IMO) are the most pertinent to the issue of gun regulation:


    • The shooter did not own the firearms (one shotgun, one 0.38 pistol).
    • He simply had access to them, they were available to him (carelessly kept).
    • There does not seem to be anything exotic about the firearms used in the attack (plain pieces).
    • It happened in Texas, it appears that in gun country there were no "good guys with guns" nearby "to stop the one bad guy with guns".


    It seems to me that the NRA arguments against gun regulation are not able to hold any water in this case.
    Anyone care to argue otherwise?
    Last edited by paleologos; May 20, 2018 at 10:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    Guns don't kill people. Doors do. Too many doors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

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    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    Regulations for gun ownership? Pff, let's continue arming civilians until everyone is self-protected against any such attacks - oh wait, has it actually ever worked?

  4. #4
    paleologos's Avatar You need burrito love!!
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    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting


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    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    Fact:Apples taste good, and you can throw them at people if you're being attacked
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    paleologos's Avatar You need burrito love!!
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    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    So the answer of gun libertarians has shifted to become: "oh, crazy people are here, they are homicidal, let's get used to it..."
    That's taking a page from the book of global warming deniers: from "...it's not real...", to "...we are not the ones doing it...", to "...we are going to have to learn how to live with it...".

  7. #7
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    It's satire. And to a point. They were right anyway. Lone-wolf attacks are pretty hard to prevent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  8. #8
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    I like guns. I like to shoot guns and take guns to the range with friends and family. Other people enjoy hunting and outdoor sport shooting. That being said, there's no reason to have a bump stock to make your semi-automatic into a fully automatic. Where's the sport in doing that? And what deer requires a fully auto to kill? Sure as hell doesn't apply to skeet shooting or target practice, either.

    I think there are sensible things we can do about gun legislation to meet halfway with the NRA folks. How about a national conversation and push for raising the minimum age of purchasing a firearm to 21 and older? That would at least prevent some of these high school shooters from acquiring their weapons, for those who didn't steal legally-owned firearms from their bumbling parents who don't have the wherewithal to buy a gun safe and lock them away where they belong. Unfortunately for many politicians even approaching this topic means getting a lowered score and nasty review from the NRA, and of course becoming targets of deranged gun nuts.

    Last but not least, why is it that Canadian, Swiss, and Czech citizens in their own countries own firearms, yet they don't see a school shooting every five seconds like in the US? Mind you, proportionately there aren't nearly as many gun owners per capita in these countries as there are in the USA, but still, why? Mental illness and firearms both exist in these countries, yet they don't have an epidemic like the USA. Is it simply because it's just too easy in most states to acquire firearms?
    Last edited by Roma_Victrix; May 20, 2018 at 01:54 PM. Reason: another question

  9. #9

    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by paleologos View Post
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    • He simply had access to them, they were available to him (carelessly kept).
    I read your link. It does not say that the shotgun and pistol were "carelessly kept".

  10. #10
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    I read your link. It does not say that the shotgun and pistol were "carelessly kept".
    If the father had stored them away properly, in a gun safe for instance, then his psycho kid wouldn't have had access to them in the first place. It's a thing most people a long time ago would have called common sense. Perhaps you've heard of it. It's kind of outdated, though.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    If the father had stored them away properly, in a gun safe for instance, then his psycho kid wouldn't have had access to them in the first place. Common sense.
    You don't know that at least not from the article which is in the OP which does not support the assertion made.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by paleologos View Post
    Main Link

    After just another killing spree in a high school does anyone here keep their fingers crossed for any real gun regulation to be made law in the U.S.A., or would the country have to wait until the witnesses of such events grow up and start voting?

    The parts of the story that (IMO) are the most pertinent to the issue of gun regulation:


    • The shooter did not own the firearms (one shotgun, one 0.38 pistol).
    • He simply had access to them, they were available to him (carelessly kept).
    • There does not seem to be anything exotic about the firearms used in the attack (plain pieces).
    • It happened in Texas, it appears that in gun country there were no "good guys with guns" nearby "to stop the one bad guy with guns".


    It seems to me that the NRA arguments against gun regulation are not able to hold any water in this case.
    Anyone care to argue otherwise?
    1. There was evidence on social media that the shooter had some violent tendencies. Why this wasn't reported or acted on by those who knew him is baffling to me. Seems to me that this could have been preempted, but that is probably unrealistic since the Parkland shooter was known to authorities who refused to act.

    2. I'm interested to know what regulations you think, specifically, would have prevented this shooting. The shooter broke several laws before he fired his first shot.

    3. There were no good guys with guns because schools are gun free zones. Interestingly, the vast majority of shootings in this country occur in gun free zones (schools, churches). In this case, a school resource officer was shot and wounded. Unfortunately that fact alone eliminated the first line of defense for this school. SROs have traditionally served that role as the first line of defense. Sometimes they are very successful in stopping an attack before anybody is killed. Tragically in this case, it didn't work. Unfortunately, SROs are uniformed any any serious shooter familiar with the school would probably try to eliminate the SRO first. This is the benefit of concealed carry and why I think those who choose to open carry are making a stupid decision with regard to their own self defense or defense of others.
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; May 20, 2018 at 02:28 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    3. There were no good guys with guns because schools are gun free zones. Interestingly, the vast majority of shootings in this country occur in gun free zones (schools, churches). In this case, a school resource officer was shot and wounded. Unfortunately that fact alone eliminated the first line of defense for this school. SROs have traditionally served that role as the first line of defense. Sometimes they are very successful in stopping an attack before anybody is killed. Tragically in this case, it didn't work. Unfortunately, SROs are uniformed any any serious shooter familiar with the school would probably try to eliminate the SRO first. This is the benefit of concealed carry and why I think those who choose to open carry are making a stupid decision with regard to their own self defense or defense of others.
    Huh? The SRO wasn't shot first, he exchanged fire with the suspect, at least from what I read.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    Where did I say he was shot first?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    I'm sorry, I thought that is what you were implying with the "no good guys with guns" and the comments about trying to eliminate the SRO first.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  16. #16
    goro's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    It seems the shooter went crazy because a girl he had a crush on, turned him down.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    It seems the shooter went crazy because a girl he had a crush on, turned him down.
    Which is ironic, because in prison he's not going to be able to turn anyone down.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    It seems the shooter went crazy because a girl he had a crush on, turned him down.
    You gotta link to news saying this? Not that I don't believe you, just not seeing yet on places I check.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Which is ironic, because in prison he's not going to be able to turn anyone down.
    Oh, a reference to prison rape.

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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    Here

    Don't know if it's 100% accurate. I saw it on other sites as well

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Santa Fe, Texas, high school shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    I like guns. I like to shoot guns and take guns to the range with friends and family. Other people enjoy hunting and outdoor sport shooting. That being said, there's no reason to have a bump stock to make your semi-automatic into a fully automatic. Where's the sport in doing that? And what deer requires a fully auto to kill? Sure as hell doesn't apply to skeet shooting or target practice, either.

    I think there are sensible things we can do about gun legislation to meet halfway with the NRA folks. How about a national conversation and push for raising the minimum age of purchasing a firearm to 21 and older? That would at least prevent some of these high school shooters from acquiring their weapons, for those who didn't steal legally-owned firearms from their bumbling parents who don't have the wherewithal to buy a gun safe and lock them away where they belong. Unfortunately for many politicians even approaching this topic means getting a lowered score and nasty review from the NRA, and of course becoming targets of deranged gun nuts.

    Last but not least, why is it that Canadian, Swiss, and Czech citizens in their own countries own firearms, yet they don't see a school shooting every five seconds like in the US? Mind you, proportionately there aren't nearly as many gun owners per capita in these countries as there are in the USA, but still, why? Mental illness and firearms both exist in these countries, yet they don't have an epidemic like the USA. Is it simply because it's just too easy in most states to acquire firearms?
    Not alone the latter. The answer is imo. pretty obvious: Because in the US (while probably different per state/s), it exists a weapon-cult, another mentality (and this for centuries ... i would say, that goes back to the whole development of the US). Supported in principle by the US government(s) and most of all, furthered heavily by the American weapon industry. A cult and mentality, which is absent in the mentioned countries. Besides, that in those countries, the access to weapons for underage guys is more restricted, afaik. Can you, or any other one, show us comparable school-shootings in these mentioned countries, fe. more as one, within a decade of years, or overall?
    Edit: The readyness to "solve" conflicts with bloody violence is but a common development of our contemporary time for young people, in other words, the inhibition level is lowered. Add to this what i wrote above, and you have an indicator.
    Last edited by DaVinci; May 20, 2018 at 05:21 PM.
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