Where now are the horse and the rider...

[Mithridate]

I don't see how your posts have any more value to the thread than Lift's, mine, or anybody else in this thread. Why should he specifically stay out? What do you have to say that's worth more than what he has to say, and for that matter, why is everyone else's position so far more important than his own interjections?

I'm sad you think that, I've got rep from both sides so I'd not be so sure. He should preferably stay out because several people including me want nothing to do with people in moderation, including him. He has little to do with the community here and as such I value his input little, whilst aware that people will look for an excuse to lash out which we don't need any more of.

Enlighten us, what is Hader trying to do here?

Aside answering peoples questions: Calm things or least not inflame them, not have to take further action and if he does - hear people out so that he'll do the right things.

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

I'm saying that people were not forced to leave

Then I apologize, I badly misread your post.

I'm sad you think that, I've got rep from both sides so I'd not be so sure. He should preferably stay out because several people including me want nothing to do with people in moderation, including him. He has little to do with the community here and as such I value his input little, whilst aware that people will look for an excuse to lash out which we don't need any more of

I would say some of the inputs and even individuals in this thread have contributed basically nothing, but I wouldn't say any of them should 'preferably' stay out (though if we go into that area, I'd say we 'preferably' have no reason to be here and have a thread like this). If you want nothing to do with his posts, ignore them. If people who look for an excuse to start latch onto his posts, then those people will further prove that they have nothing to add and make themselves and their causes (though 'cause' is a strongly defining word for the abstract nonsense that is the entire affair) look like royal arses on a publicly viewable forum. Moderation can handle the rest in that case.

[Hader]

It's been over 12 hours. Where is this PM you speak so highly of? Are you an even worse typist than I am?

If they pay you zero you are being paid too much. You didn't reply to my first post in this thread. In fact you haven't replied at all. You needed Liffy to reply for you.

If Liffy is Content Director and he said that we Gaming Staff were Content Staff does that actually put him in charge of GS? If so, then there is no need for you to even have a job here.

And this statement by you proves that the rules and FAQs listed under the tabs at the top of every page are incorrect! Even the people in charge can't follow the rules & ToS

YOU WERE THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE TO TELL ME WHY i WAS REMOVED FROM GAMING STAFF. I SHOULD NOT HAVE HEARD ABOUT IT FROM A VISITOR TO THIS FORUM. YOU APPOINTED ME, YOU REMOVED ME, YOU OWE ME THE REASON. PUT THAT IN THAT PM YOU ARE CLAIMING TO SEND ME.

Reading comprehension is one of your problems, I see. Where exactly did I "bash" one of the OTHER moderators? I had to re-read my posts here just now and as I thought I only "bashed" you. You deserve what I give you.

And the point you have proven is that you are not a man. Just a statement of fact.


====
TRANSPARENCY?? You can't even use spellchecker to spell it right! I intend to change my viewpoint when you give me reason to change. NOW MAN UP AND SEND THAT PM

I have PMed you. You got no response in this thread to your first post(s) because as I said, they were deleted, before I got to see them, and for the sake of continuity and not being off topic responding to posts no one else here could see, I would PM you on it. Apologies that it was not my absolute top priority to PM you, but if all you can do with anything I say is comment on my manhood then we're not going to get very far discussion wise, here or in a PM.

[Jadli]

I'm sad you think that, I've got rep from both sides so I'd not be so sure. He should preferably stay out because several people including me want nothing to do with people in moderation, including him. He has little to do with the community here and as such I value his input little, whilst aware that people will look for an excuse to lash out which we don't need any more of.

You cant be serious.... Lifthrasir has been instrumental to many hotseats/GS activites, by creating reward signatures for winners of various (GS) hotseats (really many of them), especially in the main section, and creating signatures for Hotseat Awards, which is another even crazier amount of signatures. As well as other things, such as the art for Aesir and Vanir, Pantheon of The Immortal. He also provided art for some of the most favourite hotseat mods, such as my TES submod (the new logo and signature), or Soul's AWOIAF. He is also apparently going to make signatures for the new season of Hotseat Awards, signatures for several ongoing hotseats, and other projects.... It all, while he absolutely doesnt have to. (and while he has never played in any HS)

What have you or Loose done in the recent years for the community? Pretty much close to absolute nothing (not even participating in any HS currently, nor recently). Yet, you both, especially Loose, are making this thread all about you, and calling him out. (to save you time Loose, the recent years are not 2013-2015)

So, I very friendly suggest you take that back.

[Cookiegod]

Hader & other admins: You are not using your time efficiently. I don't care what Jadli did or didn't do, who is at fault and who isn't (the most likely answers are both and no one).
I should be able to sympatise with Soul. That twenty minutes rant and those two PMs are almost my exclusive source of information, and I, too, have been a hotseat community leader (though in a different forum) and in the end quit because of some drama. But that's it. Once I left I didn't try to sabotage it out of spite. Soul can have done all the greatest deeds for this community and Jadli be entirely in the wrong here. Yeah, let's just assume that for the sake of argument. When he decides to leave, that should be it. This discussion should be over. And yet it isn't.

Then we hear talk about sevenrealms not trying to get people to quit TWC, and that they should coexist friendly. Yeah, why not. And yet: How, when we see disrespectful stuff like what happened to that Steamgroup. The fact that it was done repeatedly, and that no one of the S(evenrealms)exiteers did anything to stop him or amend the situation reflects badly on them. It shows they condone it, and it's a middlefinger to this community and to this site here. Hijacking an official Steamgroup of this site is a big no-go.
You are authority figures and should not be push-overs.

If I had done anything similar to this on the forum where I was active, I would've been banned immediately and rightfully so, even though I contributed a lot.

As stated above, I've been an admin and I understand your (Hex's) motivation. This isn't your fight, you don't want to choose a side. I understand that, but you achieve nothing with that passivity except keeping this drama alive. You can't please both sides, but as long as this drama continues, so long will the contempt of both sides to you will increase, as expressed several times in this thread already, so you essentially triple your losses for no gain at all.
If they don't want to remedy this situation, and the Steamgroup is an important first step for this, then all references, all advertisement for that site should be clamped down upon on this site.
It is one thing to create a community based on something positive, like a love for strategy games. It's an entirely different matter if it happens solely because of hate, and the rest is just alibi.
If it's the latter, all communication kept open to that channel will only serve further hate actions one way or the other.
I'm not saying you have to clamp down hard right now and right here, but you have to make it clear to 7realms that they have to choose which it has to be.
They need to be crystal clear about which of the two they want it to be. And if it's the latter, then at least you'll know that an amicable solution is not achievable and count your losses.
If it's the former, they should prove it. Because what I've read from them and what I've seen them do has as of yet been two different things.
Either way, this drama should stop asap. I think the silent majority in this community will agree. We're not here for the drama over some administrative issues, we're not here because of some house of cards style power struggle. We want to move on.

I have no side in this conflict. I haven't been involved in it at all. Hader is right when he states that these things happen and happen regularly. Group psychology is cruel and inevitable.
To quote Soul from his 20 minutes waste of time rant: Some people are just s. Yes. I think the exact same thing when I think back on the drama in my community.
But 1: Did I handle that well? Probably not. And 2: Everyone is a to somebody. Navigating past those conflicts is what distinguishes maturity.
If you want to get anything out of this fight other than a waste of time, learn from it. social dynamics are essentially the same, whether they happen in schools, in the internet or the office. With my experience in project management irl I can vouch for that fact. Much of our emotions and our reactions are instinct based, and not only are the actions of others beyond our control, so are a lot of our own.
So maybe, just maybe, neither side is the absolute evil the other wants to portray it to be. And either way, it doesn't matter. Let's please just move on.
But I don't see that happening before you hex don't do what is necessary. Pleasing both sides in this matter is impossible. But if one already has decided to leave, that is no longer necessary.

Cheers.

[themzr]

Hader you made a comment that both sides made impossible demands and were unwilling to accept any compromise. While I am (hopefully) sure what one side was asking may I ask what the demands each side "made", this would be easier to know how a compromise was un-achievable....

[Loose Cannon]

@ Loose Cannon, risking to provide kindle again (but considering the posts of the member who said that, I still have a lot to catch up), I suggest you to read this page. It should help you to understand how the site works as you seem confused regarding the site departments and ranks.

@ Mithridate, I have the same right as any other member of this site to post in this thread, without considering all the signatures and banners I've done for the Hotseats and even if it displeases you.

Why don't you reread the FAQs page listed at the top of every page? Here is the relevant part

Officer Ranks

There are 3 ranks of staff officer

Council Officer
Senior Staff Officer
Staff Officer

The Council Officers are the administrators who form the Council and run the show; the rest of the staff are divided into the 3 branches to serve the site. All staff may be recognized by their badges and oftentimes colour-coded usernames. All Officers display their officer rank in preference to their member rank, so there's no disguising them!
[edit] The Hexagonal Council

This is the governing body that runs the site. Its made up of the Site Owner and any number of Administrators who lead different branches of Staff and contribute their specific talents to making TWC the best it can be.


Now when we follow the links we see Hader listed as Hexagonal Council Administrator
and we see you listed as Content Director.
That means you are below him. But yesterday you said GS were Content Staff and therefore below you. This is not true (actually a bald faced LIE). We only were under Hader. You are just a Global Moderator in this forum, as you replied to me in a PM. Now do you understand how this site works?

Now, like Mith said, you are welcome to post a comment here. But when you come in with your Moderator badge and don't know a damn bit about what has transpired here in the past few months then you shouldn't make comments that are irrelevant. You admitted as much in your PM to me.

@Jadli You want everybody to know what you are? Ok here we go. I don't have any artistic skills and trying to use Paint causes my computer to crash. And my programming skills? Well, I can do things with FORTRAN but not any newer language. The most I can do is help modders out by testing their work.
You remember that don't you? You begged me months before your TES submod was ready last year FOR ME TO HELP YOU BY PLAYING THE FIRST GAME. I agreed because that's what I do-I help others.

But what happenned when your submod was ready? I was having installation problems and asked you for help. Did yo help? No. You ignored me and got someone to replace me without even saying "Thanks for trying.".. Other people had the same problem and were treated the same way by you.

[Jadli]

@Jadli You want everybody to know what you are? Ok here we go. I don't have any artistic skills and trying to use Paint causes my computer to crash. And my programming skills? Well, I can do things with FORTRAN but not any newer language. The most I can do is help modders out by testing their work.
You remember that don't you? You begged me months before your TES submod was ready last year FOR ME TO HELP YOU BY PLAYING THE FIRST GAME. I agreed because that's what I do-I help others.

But what happenned when your submod was ready? I was having installation problems and asked you for help. Did yo help? No. You ignored me and got someone to replace me without even saying "Thanks for trying.".. Other people had the same problem and were treated the same way by you.

There are many various ways to contribute, not being a modder or artist is no obstacle to that...

As for the second part, you have it very mixed.

You joined the Tamriel III mid game as The Empire. You played it from turns 21 to 23. Thus, you must have managed to install it. You were then kicked for lateness/inactivity http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...III-TES/page22

You were also invited into Interregnum if I recall correctly, where you were given a test version (just like a bunch of other ppl. Pretty sure I didnt beg you) just before the HS was started, and it worked for you. But then you probably didnt manage to install the final version, and were too busy to try installing again properly. We were communicating a lot about it(we exchanged about 20 PMs). You had plenty time to fix it, you did not.

What other people? When someone cant get a mod used in a HS working for whatever reasons, they naturally cant participate in such a HS. As the save would crash... There is nothing personal about it, admin cant do anything to miraculously get the mod working on someone else's PC. By the way, I have never had issues explaing people how to install mods, spent a significant part on TWC by doing that. Doing that almost daily...

And no of them were "first game", if by that you meant my first HS ever, or my first TES HS ever. I had hosted plenty hotseats before, and plenty after.


Though, nice to see you consider such a minor thing a reason enough to go full hate on me...


EDIT

I reread the PMs more thoroughfully, and changed the IR part a bit

[Loose Cannon]

There are many various ways to contribute, not being a modder or artist is no obstacle to that...

As for the second part, you have it very mixed.

You joined the Tamriel III mid game as The Empire. You played it from turns 21 to 23. Thus, you must have managed to install it. You were then kicked for lateness/inactivity http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...III-TES/page22

You were also invited into Interregnum if I recall correctly, where you however (and that game was also already running, so I definitely didnt "beg" you to help with testing it), were too busy to try installing again properly, even though I was trying to help, from what I can see in inbox (we exchanged about 20 PMs). To be precise, we were talking about how to instal it in the end of March. And on May 21 you sent me message you didnt get it working, and that you have other turns to play before you can try. Speaks for all.

What other people? When someone cant get a mod used in a HS working for whatever reasons, they naturally cant participate in such a HS. As the save would crash... There is nothing personal about it, admin cant do anything to miraculously get the mod working on someone else's PC. By the way, I have never had issues explaing people how to install mods, spent a significant part on TWC by doing that. Doing that almost daily...

And no of them were "first game", if by that you meant my first HS ever, or my first TES HS ever. I had hosted plenty hotseats before, and plenty after.

I resigned from Tamriel III. And I was the 4th person to quit that faction in 23 turns. Told you how badlly broken the mod ws in the thread. That's when you started acting up like a child. Nobody kicked me out of that one.

I then created a second copy of TES while waiting for you to finish your submod. Yes I know how to do that having multiple copies of SS and CCM and Westeros for all the testing and submods for it. When your submod was finally finished, the files I downloaded caused CTDs and I told you about the problems. The other person having the same problems was on my team. You replaced us acting all proud of yourself for coming up with new players so quickly. Interregnum I

When you have a problem with a mod or submod (and have checked all the normal paths) you tell the modder first so he knows he may have a problem with his mod.

A day later I saw the download had changed and tried it again. That time it worked but I was no longer interested in helping YOU playtest. Your game has only played 22 turns in a year?

By first game I meant what I said, but since you are here FIRST GAME WITH 1.3 PATCH Have you figured it out yet?

And you asked me to play multiple times. Once you ask a second time, it's begging.

THE TRUTH HURTS SO BAD, DON'T IT?

[Lifthrasir]

You need a lesson in reading comprehension. Why don't you reread the FAQs page listed at the top of every page? Here is the relevant part

Officer Ranks

There are 3 ranks of staff officer

Council Officer
Senior Staff Officer
Staff Officer

The Council Officers are the administrators who form the Council and run the show; the rest of the staff are divided into the 3 branches to serve the site. All staff may be recognized by their badges and oftentimes colour-coded usernames. All Officers display their officer rank in preference to their member rank, so there's no disguising them!
[edit] The Hexagonal Council

This is the governing body that runs the site. Its made up of the Site Owner and any number of Administrators who lead different branches of Staff and contribute their specific talents to making TWC the best it can be.


Now when we follow the links we see Hader listed as Hexagonal Council Administrator
and we see you listed as Content Director.
That means you are below him. But yesterday you said GS were Content Staff and therefore below you. This is not true (actually a bald faced LIE). We only were under Hader. You are just a Global Moderator in this forum, as you replied to me in a PM. Now do you understand how this site works?

Now, like Mith said, you are welcome to post a comment here. But when you come in with your Moderator badge and don't know a damn bit about what has transpired here in the past few months then you shouldn't make comments that are irrelevant. You admitted as much in your PM to me.

Ok, I'll be disgressing and I apologize in advance.
1. Unless I post in bold navy blue, I'm not acting as a moderator but as a simple member (like now fyi).
2. In this thread, I'm listed as the director of the Art Content Staff and as moderator. As content director, I'm only responsible for the Art Content Staff and absolutly not for any other content department, Gaming Staff included. If another content director decide to fire one of his staffer, that's his business and I have no way to be involved in that matter. To summarize, what hapens in each content staff stays in it. So to go back to your case, you were part of the GS and you got fired. I don't know why, I can't know why and it is not my business at all. When you PMed me for an answer on that matter, I've tried to explain that to you and to re-direct you to the people able to answer from my opinion. You have posted it here. People can read it and make their own opinions.
3. About the drama here, I've been in contact with Parafix (done several 2D works for him), with Soul (who was even part of my staff), with Jadli (I patronized him and have done several 2D works for him) and with Hannibal2001 (done several 2D works for him). I've been also in contact with General Dragon. but in a lesser extend. So yes, you're right, I'm not directly involved in the GS and in all this drama but by knowing the main protagonists of both sides, I think that I have a reasonable idea of what happened and I'm perfectly entitled to post here as well as you or any other hotseater. You have chosen to associate me to your "crusade" against Hader. Don't be surprised to see me using my right to answer to you. Leave me in my corner and I'll happily leave you to your rant which doesn't bring anything constructive here btw.

Again, my apologizes to the others for my disgression here

[Jadli]

I resigned from Tamriel III. And I was the 4th person to quit that faction in 23 turns. Told you how badlly broken the mod ws in the thread. That's when you started acting up like a child. Nobody kicked me out of that one.

I then created a second copy of TES while waiting for you to finish your submod. Yes I know how to do that having multiple copies of SS and CCM and Westeros for all the testing and submods for it. When your submod was finally finished, the files I downloaded caused CTDs and I told you about the problems. The other person having the same problems was on my team. You replaced us acting all proud of yourself for coming up with new players so quickly. Interregnum I

When you have a problem with a mod or submod (and have checked all the normal paths) you tell the modder first so he knows he may have a problem with his mod.

A day later I saw the download had changed and tried it again. That time it worked but I was no longer interested in helping YOU playtest. Your game has only played 22 turns in a year?

By first game I meant what I said, but since you are here FIRST GAME WITH 1.3 PATCH Have you figured it out yet?

And you asked me to play multiple times. Once you ask a second time, it's begging.

THE TRUTH HURTS SO BAD, DON'T IT?

If you say so... I suppose Ill not be able to sleep today, because of how badly you crushed me with your hard undeniable truth

[Mithridate]

... ( a good post ) ...

You cant be serious.... Lifthrasir has been instrumental to many hotseats/GS activites, by creating reward signatures for winners of various (GS) hotseats (really many of them), especially in the main section, and creating signatures for Hotseat Awards, which is another even crazier amount of signatures. As well as other things, such as the art for Aesir and Vanir, Pantheon of The Immortal. He also provided art for some of the most favourite hotseat mods, such as my TES submod (the new logo and signature), or Soul's AWOIAF. He is also apparently going to make signatures for the new season of Hotseat Awards, signatures for several ongoing hotseats, and other projects.... It all, while he absolutely doesnt have to. (and while he has never played in any HS)

Instrumental? If you say so, it seem an utter tangent to what I said. I don't heed or worship Soul and Parafix either for all the great work they've done for me, this place or elsewhere - selfless or otherwise. I just see this derailing and I've made it clear why as somebody whom still hotseat here after half a decade.

What have you or Loose done in the recent years for the community?

I've not cased a rift that splintered the entire hotseating section, causing months of drama centered around myself to the seeming detriment of everyone.

[themzr]

I've not cased a rift that splintered the entire hotseating section, causing months of drama centered around myself to the seeming detriment of everyone.

Neither has Jadli so I think you should re-adjust your insinuation....

[Cookiegod]

Fine, Loose, I get your point. People here are either evil or simply not men, and you are the supreme paragon of virtue that has been wronged.
You can call yourself the supreme winner of this fight and can relax now.
My question to you is how we go from here? Anything to say with regards to the future rather than the past?
Do you have anything constructive to say, like a proposal that helps us solve any non-advertisement-related problem that you see?

[Tango12345]

Gentlemen, you are all completely welcome to disagree with each other (and disagree strongly), but you need to keep it civil. We do not want to have to delete any more posts or issue any more temporary suspensions from the hotseat area.

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

I find it hard to believe that nuking a portion of the page, most of which was relatively fitting into the 'disagree strongly' category save for the ending bits, was a necessary extra step for the above message. Perhaps that's part of the issue here; too much deletion and too much sweeping.

Details and statements of note are swept behind closed doors or deleted altogether, resulting in the same ambiguous nonsense that made it difficult to form an intelligent opinion of the OP's points and the rest of the issue in the first place.

[Mithridate]

I am in full and complete agreement and last time I warned people to not do what you just did - I got smacked with defying moderation since I had done what you just did. This thread clearly allows more leeway but, be careful friend.

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

I am in full and complete agreement and last time I warned people to not do what you just did - I got smacked with defying moderation since I had done what you just did. This thread clearly allows more leeway but, be careful friend.

Ah well. The mods will do as they will. If I must be beaten down for doing what I must, there are many more places to spend my time.

In any case, what is there left to this thread and this conversation that can bring it on track, and perhaps do more than show who's digging themselves into which holes? I'm not sure what further questions there are to ask, though I'm sure they exist. Perhaps now they can be asked and answered.

[Hader]

Hader & other admins: You are not using your time efficiently. I don't care what Jadli did or didn't do, who is at fault and who isn't (the most likely answers are both and no one).
I should be able to sympatise with Soul. That twenty minutes rant and those two PMs are almost my exclusive source of information, and I, too, have been a hotseat community leader (though in a different forum) and in the end quit because of some drama. But that's it. Once I left I didn't try to sabotage it out of spite. Soul can have done all the greatest deeds for this community and Jadli be entirely in the wrong here. Yeah, let's just assume that for the sake of argument. When he decides to leave, that should be it. This discussion should be over. And yet it isn't.


---


So maybe, just maybe, neither side is the absolute evil the other wants to portray it to be. And either way, it doesn't matter. Let's please just move on.
But I don't see that happening before you hex don't do what is necessary. Pleasing both sides in this matter is impossible. But if one already has decided to leave, that is no longer necessary.


Cheers.

Thanks for this post, overall a good read.


I realize I have perhaps been more lenient than others may have been or otherwise may have been called for in many aspects of this entire case, and perhaps hard on only a bit of it in specific places. However, the whole situation was, obviously, far from ideal. Most especially considering I came into it while it had been going on and I had to both do some catching up as well as maintain a good overall view of the whole situation and not act brashly with it (the last thing the situation needed at such a juncture). As much as some people may like to believe banning one person or another may have solved literally everything, I saw that this was unfortunately a good bit more than something that simple, and thus gave the overall benefit of the doubt until I felt more sure of everything that was presented. I do not get so much conflicting information, yet two sides telling me things in their own crystal clear interpretations, and not easily notice there is more than meets the eye. I won't say my handling of the situation from my standpoint was perfect or entirely right at each juncture by any means, but I did what I thought best to do to remain objective and keep from fanning the fire more than necessary. I know what and where and when I could have done different and likely better, but hindsight is hardly any use to us here anymore.


Seeing as this thread has finally simmered down some, and considering time past and that I feel most of this is as resolved as it will get, I won't be worrying much about taking my time or being as lenient.

Hader you made a comment that both sides made impossible demands and were unwilling to accept any compromise. While I am (hopefully) sure what one side was asking may I ask what the demands each side "made", this would be easier to know how a compromise was un-achievable....

Nothing I think is relevant anymore, even the specifics of it all. But suffice to say it always seemed to involve bans, usually of the permanent type, being demanded.

I find it hard to believe that nuking a portion of the page, most of which was relatively fitting into the 'disagree strongly' category save for the ending bits, was a necessary extra step for the above message. Perhaps that's part of the issue here; too much deletion and too much sweeping.


Details and statements of note are swept behind closed doors or deleted altogether, resulting in the same ambiguous nonsense that made it difficult to form an intelligent opinion of the OP's points and the rest of the issue in the first place.

Believe me, you missed very little that had discussion potential.


As I said, I'd prefer specific questions to be asked should you have them, and clarify and give info from there. This thread has been a bit more lenient on the ToS than anywhere else on TWC would be, but is far from exempt from them, and so posts have been deleted accordingly.

[Cookiegod]

Thanks for this post, overall a good read.


I realize I have perhaps been more lenient than others may have been or otherwise may have been called for in many aspects of this entire case, and perhaps hard on only a bit of it in specific places. However, the whole situation was, obviously, far from ideal. Most especially considering I came into it while it had been going on and I had to both do some catching up as well as maintain a good overall view of the whole situation and not act brashly with it (the last thing the situation needed at such a juncture). As much as some people may like to believe banning one person or another may have solved literally everything, I saw that this was unfortunately a good bit more than something that simple, and thus gave the overall benefit of the doubt until I felt more sure of everything that was presented. I do not get so much conflicting information, yet two sides telling me things in their own crystal clear interpretations, and not easily notice there is more than meets the eye. I won't say my handling of the situation from my standpoint was perfect or entirely right at each juncture by any means, but I did what I thought best to do to remain objective and keep from fanning the fire more than necessary. I know what and where and when I could have done different and likely better, but hindsight is hardly any use to us here anymore.


Seeing as this thread has finally simmered down some, and considering time past and that I feel most of this is as resolved as it will get, I won't be worrying much about taking my time or being as lenient.

Just to clarify, I wasn't criticising you for anything in the past, nor was I necessarily calling for tough action and punishment. I'm not on anyones side. I merely pointed out that keeping that discussion going was harmful for the community. Luckily it died down on its own, and you are correct in that no further action seems to be necessary.

Some questions remain: Are all issues resolved that led to this crisis or were caused by it? Is everyone who wishes to remain in this hotseat community satisfied with the solution? If not, which issues need to be adressed and how?

I think everyone agrees that this should be the home for everyone who wants to be a part of it, and that necessary steps need to be taken that a) this drama does not return once again, so now would be the time to solve it once and for all, and b) that those from both sides, that haven't left, can feel at home and are persuaded to stay.