The CROWNS system

[Jurand of Cracow]

ok, the last included

[Gigantus]

My second FL just got a crown after his father died. Now he is the King of all Spain. Nice.

... Except I'm playing as Novgorod.

Why, JoC?

Light laughter about stuff like this is required for coders to go on, it certainly does it for me. It also serves as reminder to use templates and copy\paste with care.

[Kilo11]

I have a question about crowns, as that is something I know is being discussed in a couple threads, and which Jurand is getting polished for the next patch. In the coding I've seen for various crowns so far, it looks like the crown is always linked to a faction:

 and SettlementBuildingExists = cathedral_o 
 and FactionType byzantium 
 and I_SettlementOwner Constantinople = byzantium
 and I_SettlementOwner Thessalonica = byzantium
 and I_SettlementOwner Nicaea = byzantium
 and I_SettlementOwner Arta = byzantium
 and I_SettlementOwner Adrianople = byzantium
 and I_SettlementOwner Smyrna = byzantium
 and I_SettlementOwner Attaleia = byzantium
 and I_SettlementOwner Sinop = byzantium
 and I_SettlementOwner Trebizond = byzantium
 and I_SettlementOwner Chandax = byzantium
 and I_SettlementOwner Antioch = byzantium
 and I_SettlementOwner Sis = byzantium     
 and I_SettlementOwner Konya = byzantium

I was wondering if this makes most sense, or if crowns should be available to any faction that meets the requirements? I mean, if I conquer all of the historical territories of the Eastern Roman Empire, then shouldn't I be able to legitimately crown myself "Eastern Roman Emperor"? Then, a faction leader can also sport all of the crowns he has gained, plus it seems a historical enough thing, since kings fairly regularly added titles to themselves based on conquered or annexed lands. Thoughts?

[Jurand of Cracow]

A few arguments why no more than 1 crown:
- for the gameplay just one crown is enough for the loyalty effects on the generals,
- the code would be far more complicated, it's not worth doing it - there're much more pressing needs,
- it wouldn't be historical in many cases; descriptions of many crowns wouldn't be pertinent,
- there's a limit of 8 ancillaries and there're a few special ancs for the Faction Leaders - no more space for the additional crowns
- there are a few cases where a few factions compete for one crown (NO & DK, Italian factions, Rus, Spanish) and at least one faction having alternative crowns (Aragon: Aragon on Spain).
Some useful information is also available in the Crowns thread.

[officialdeo]

crown_byzantium

Current situation:
Name: Exarch of Byzantium
Effects: Authority 3, Command 1, Law 1, LocalPopularity 1.
Number cities: 13
Factions having access: Byzantium.
Concept: I’m unsure about the name. Besides, it seems rather limited as far as the size of the empire in 10-11 c. is concerned.
How easy to get:
Provinces missing / redundant: historically Sicily and south Italy. Also, all Armenian lands (Ani) should be included. But that’s a lot of provinces and they’re far away.
Is pic correct: no

Modifications’ ideas
New concept: the vision of the Byzantine lands of the 12-13c. with some substractions. It's much less than the Macedonians’ empire of the 11c. and for the sake of the gameplay it includes even fewer provinces. I hesitated much if to include Antioch and Cilicia. I’ve decided not to: the ambitions were there, but effective control rarely and the most important thing: there’s still a very high number of provinces required for this crown.
Gameplay perspective: low difficulty in 1132 (the provinces are already there), but may be extremely difficult with 1236 start: few provinces, enemies on both sides, the need to take out one faction. However, it’s relatively geographically packed what makes it a bit easier. But costs, costs!
Name of the crown: Kamēlaúkion
Title of the ruler: Basileus kai autokratōr Rhōmaíōn
Effects: Authority 2, Law 1, LocalPopularity 1 and tbd
Factions having access: Byzantium.
Provinces: as shown on the map.
Number provinces: 16.
Place of coronation: Constantinople.
Building required for coronation: Orthodox Cathedral (or rather Hagia Sophia - if there's a separate crown for Caucasus).
Factions able to get it: Byzantium.
Pic to be used:
Ideas for distant future: if the concept of a two-tier system would be followed then a “better” Byzantine crown would be created including more lands both in the East (Anatolia and Armenian Highlands), and in the West (South Italy), but this crown would include less.
Description: En Christō tō Theō pistós basileus kai autokratōr Rhōmaíōn: he is has been chosen by God to be the emperor of the Romans.
Memo for future: has this crown been analyzed thoroughly?: Partially.



(next patch) Implemented with 16 provinces.

Out of curiosity, why is Nis not included? As far as I know, the Romans had a solid hold there during the Komnenian dynasty.

[Jurand of Cracow]

One may also ask about Sis - Joannes subdued it. And Angora and the rest of Anatolia - during the Macedonian dynasty it was firmy Byzantine. Or Antioch - the everlasting goal of the Komnenian dynasty.

The answer is: for the gameplay reason I tried to push the number down as much as possible. And Nis seemed to be less "core" than other provinces.

[officialdeo]

Jurand, don't you think the Hungarian alternative crown is somewhat far-fetched? I suppose this is about Charles Robert and the Angevin dynasty's history in the Balkans. I am not sure if the dynasty had any substantial action towards holding both Sicily and Hungary, but it seems more plausible to give them access to the Polish crown, which is something widely known in history.

Not to mention it is practically impossible to invade Sicily unless Hungary has control over Ragusa; in which case, most people will just opt for the regular/Balkan variation, never mind the AI.

[Lifthrasir]

Louis I, son of Charles I the Great, occupied a large territory of the Naples region between 1347 and 1350. He claimed the title of King of Sicily and of Jerusalem but was never recognized as such by the Pope

[Jurand of Cracow]

Jurand, don't you think the Hungarian alternative crown is somewhat far-fetched? I suppose this is about Charles Robert and the Angevin dynasty's history in the Balkans. I am not sure if the dynasty had any substantial action towards holding both Sicily and Hungary, but it seems more plausible to give them access to the Polish crown, which is something widely known in history.

Not to mention it is practically impossible to invade Sicily unless Hungary has control over Ragusa; in which case, most people will just opt for the regular/Balkan variation, never mind the AI.

I do agree up to a point. We have to care about the gameplay as well. The goal is to have ca. 12 territories and a diverse experience for the player, with options if plausible. I think that adding the second possibility for Hungary gives it more flavour. And historically it's not so implausible, as Lifth's mentioned.

The AI has its own (short) set of provinces to get the crown. You'll see crowns for the AI in-game even though it doesn't know they exist.

;------------------------------------------Trigger crown_hungary_AI
 WhenToTest CharacterTurnEndInSettlement


Condition not FactionIsLocal
 and Trait Fit_Crown_hungary > 0
 and I_SettlementOwner Esztergom = hungary
 and I_SettlementOwner Gyulafehervar = hungary
 and I_SettlementOwner Szekesfehervar = hungary
 and I_SettlementOwner Zagreb = hungary  
 and I_SettlementOwner Varad = hungary
 and I_SettlementOwner Zara = hungary
 and I_SettlementOwner Ragusa = hungary
 and not I_WorldwideAncillaryExists crown_hungary
 
 AcquireAncillary crown_hungary chance 100

I think the issue of the unions in the east (among Poland, Hungary, Lithuania and perhaps Kiev) is to be thought out in the future. This may be that second layer of the crowns (with some 25 provinces?). The condition would be to have similar solutions across the whole map.

BTW, I've had recently some thoughts that after 1132 it should not be the "Kiev" and "Novgorod" factions, but Volhynia and Zalesye with the aim to restore the Kiev realm (Novgorod was very inward-looking but the trade issues). Could be interesting: Volhynia would be rich but attacked by Poland, Hungary and Lithuania, while the Suzdal-Volodymyr very poor but safe far in the distance. Both would have to fight the Cumans. But it's just a thought, and I can already see thunders in the Lifth eyes for I've mentioned it.

[officialdeo]

Louis I, son of Charles I the Great, occupied a large territory of the Naples region between 1347 and 1350. He claimed the title of King of Sicily and of Jerusalem but was never recognized as such by the Pope

Lol seems I was wrong about this, I didn't know about that bit of history. Thanks for correcting.

I do agree up to a point. We have to care about the gameplay as well. The goal is to have ca. 12 territories and a diverse experience for the player, with options if plausible. I think that adding the second possibility for Hungary gives it more flavour. And historically it's not so implausible, as Lifth's mentioned.

The AI has its own (short) set of provinces to get the crown. You'll see crowns for the AI in-game even though it doesn't know they exist.

;------------------------------------------Trigger crown_hungary_AI
 WhenToTest CharacterTurnEndInSettlement


Condition not FactionIsLocal
 and Trait Fit_Crown_hungary > 0
 and I_SettlementOwner Esztergom = hungary
 and I_SettlementOwner Gyulafehervar = hungary
 and I_SettlementOwner Szekesfehervar = hungary
 and I_SettlementOwner Zagreb = hungary  
 and I_SettlementOwner Varad = hungary
 and I_SettlementOwner Zara = hungary
 and I_SettlementOwner Ragusa = hungary
 and not I_WorldwideAncillaryExists crown_hungary
 
 AcquireAncillary crown_hungary chance 100

I think the issue of the unions in the east (among Poland, Hungary, Lithuania and perhaps Kiev) is to be thought out in the future. This may be that second layer of the crowns (with some 25 provinces?). The condition would be to have similar solutions across the whole map.

BTW, I've had recently some thoughts that after 1132 it should not be the "Kiev" and "Novgorod" factions, but Volhynia and Zalesye with the aim to restore the Kiev realm (Novgorod was very inward-looking but the trade issues). Could be interesting: Volhynia would be rich but attacked by Poland, Hungary and Lithuania, while the Suzdal-Volodymyr very poor but safe far in the distance. Both would have to fight the Cumans. But it's just a thought, and I can already see thunders in the Lifth eyes for I've mentioned it.

If 12-provinces is one of the main considerations for faction crown then I certainly agree with that line of thinking. What I proposed seems more of a work in the future. I'm still going to have to test out how factions behave with the fixed crown mechanics in a long campaign, particularly with eastern factions.

[Lifthrasir]

Actually, no thunder in my eyes
Kievan Rus has to be reworked for sure. Its current "form" is not the best way to represent that area. Replacing Novgorod by the Suzdal-Volodymir might be interesting as well. Something to consider for sure
In any case, it will be a long term plan.

[Krez2445]

Quick question, to get the crown for León Castile, what is the “traditionally or historical capital” that I need to send my king to get the Spanish crown? And will I be notified when he is eligible?

I see “fit for the crown” , trait, but do not have a cathedral I don’t th8nk in the right place, I only have a cathedral in Leon, which is not the starting capital for León castille

[Jurand of Cracow]

Described in this post - Toledo.

[Krez2445]

Toledo starts out as a fortress , so I need to convert it to a city to get the cathedral?

[Jurand of Cracow]

Toledo starts out as a fortress , so I need to convert it to a city to get the cathedral?

Yeah, I've missed this. For the moment it seems you need to convert. I'll fix in097.

[Krez2445]

Yeah, I've missed this. For the moment it seems you need to convert. I'll fix in097.

Its ok I will just make it part of the huge coronation ceremony... unless I will need to have a coronation event for every succeeding king?

[Krez2445]

Also, not sure if this was intended, but León castille has Borgia as its starting capital

[Jurand of Cracow]

You mean "Burgos"? The capital of Castille? It's the time when both kingdoms were for a while united in a personal union, iirc.

[ShaolinBudo]

Hi there I love the mod! just a quick question.. how do I become king of Scotland I have all of the points need to become king.

- i have the trait
ready for the crowning


i have less than 7
(i removed all ancillaries)
remove_ancillary this


i have all of the territories conquered all of uk and Ireland
i have max authority
i have max chivalry




Scottish king


CHECK The faction consists of all required provinces


CHECK Capital Edinburgh


CHECK He must not be Diseased, AbsentMinded, Idiot, Senile, Quite Mad or Utterly Insane.


CHECK 20,000 florins


CHECK The faction consists of all required provinces (i have HUGE CATHEDRAL)


CHECK Additional conditions (eg: the Catholic faction must not be excommunicated).

please and thx for your reply and time !

[Jurand of Cracow]

I've dealt with the crowns so long time ago and I've remodded them so thoroughly that I even don't remember if there's something wrong with the Scottish one in 096. I'm sorry.
Load up a save I'll check if I can help somehow.