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Thread: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - original thread

  1. #61
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    There is a poly count limit to strat models, not sure however how high, I only know that crashes happen because of it as we just came across it in the development of an RotK update.
    Maybe this tutorial helps with reducing the count. Removing minute multi vertex details or having them texture only will help as well - nobody will know if the chain link of a drawbridge are actual vertices or texture only.
    Last edited by Gigantus; September 09, 2018 at 12:31 AM.



  2. #62
    Flinn's Avatar oh man.. I did it again!
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    Awesome mod and incredible work done so far!

    As an italian I'm fascinated by this mod, I'll have to remember to check here every once in a while
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22& Socrates1984; of the Imperial House of Hader

  3. #63
    Mylae's Avatar Memento Mori
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    @Hrobatos, @Gigantus,
    I really do believe there is something with high-poly models: however, I tend to think that the cause of the crash is not the high poly but rather the texture compression of high-poly models. This is because sometime on new pc the game with those models loads but fails to show proper 2d, while on older pc everything run smoothly. Also, sometime on new pc the game with new models loads only with the lowest graphic settings - which is odd, but confirms the "too high graphic setting" as crash message.
    Extravagant developer of Invasio Barbarorum: Flagellum Dei; Developer of Paeninsula Italica
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  4. #64
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    Proper 2D - sounds like an issue with the sprites. Faulty conversion perhaps, check this tutorial for a simplified procedure. Or do you mean the strat models? There using only the TGA.DDS extension may cause a dip in FPS rates as opposed to only using TGA (which suffices). Else use the DDS format without mip maps for strat models.



  5. #65
    Mylae's Avatar Memento Mori
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    interesting: I meant about stratmap models, so I will do experiments on tga/dds as you suggest. It may yields interesting results...
    Extravagant developer of Invasio Barbarorum: Flagellum Dei; Developer of Paeninsula Italica
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  6. #66
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    DDS is basically a method to display ever more detailed texture (the mip maps) the closer you get to the model - hardly of any use with strat models. The texture for a character model shouldn't exceed 500KB at 512*512 dimensions and that is already a very detailed texture as such, 256*256 is standard and comes in at below 300KB when compression is used



  7. #67
    Mylae's Avatar Memento Mori
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    interesting: the Tzardoms model had large 1024x1024 textures. they may be responsible of the crash.
    Extravagant developer of Invasio Barbarorum: Flagellum Dei; Developer of Paeninsula Italica
    Creator of the XV-Century Machiavello Total War Mod (2.0) for M2TW



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  8. #68
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    Maybe a battle model that got converted without reducing the texture (and without reducing the vertices count)?



  9. #69
    Mylae's Avatar Memento Mori
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    yes, there are both battle models and city models with such massive textures.
    Extravagant developer of Invasio Barbarorum: Flagellum Dei; Developer of Paeninsula Italica
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  10. #70
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    Large city textures are known to cause massive FPS drops during sieges since day one, won't be any different with soldier textures, strat or battle. Proportional, mind you, battle being about 300KB average for the body and 1MB for attachment in vanilla and in older mods. One attachment texture being used by at least 6 different models.

    It's only in the later mods that textures were reaching gargantuan sizes and I am still not sure if it was out of the desire to have maximum details like in the latest Doom version or if it was laziness (I will allow unawareness for noobies to TW) when importing models from other games.

    Curiously it's rather rare that a custom battle model uses one texture for body and attachment whereas it's standard (non optional?) for the strat model.

    And then you get the weir skinning were you have a 256*256 section of body texture in one corner and a lonely sword in the opposite corner in a 512*1024 texture....
    Last edited by Gigantus; September 12, 2018 at 10:43 AM.



  11. #71
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    Spoiler for XV century italian infantry's clothes
    Huic ab adulescentia bella intestina, caedes, rapinae, discordia civilis grata fuerunt ibique iuventutem suam exercuit

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    Large city textures are known to cause massive FPS drops during sieges since day one, won't be any different with soldier textures, strat or battle. Proportional, mind you, battle being about 300KB average for the body and 1MB for attachment in vanilla and in older mods. One attachment texture being used by at least 6 different models.
    Maybe I said it erroneously. There are no crashes whatsoever in battles/sieges etc, but on stratmap.
    Stratmap models that I received from Tzardoms come with a variety of textures in large format and different shapes. I have resized them to an uniform 512x512 to all of them, saved as .tga or .dds without mipmaps and voilą! There are no crashes anymore. The game loads without troubles on new pc.
    The problem lied not in the ingame models, but rather in the textures used, as there were some odd shaped ones (1100x110 or 512x1024) and other larger than needed (1024x1024 or even 2048x2048)
    For battle units, all our textures are 1024x1024, wit the exception of the Marka Horses who are 1024x2048. And you can be assured that there are no weird skinning proportions...
    Extravagant developer of Invasio Barbarorum: Flagellum Dei; Developer of Paeninsula Italica
    Creator of the XV-Century Machiavello Total War Mod (2.0) for M2TW



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  13. #73
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    If you get into frame rate drops during siege battles you will know where to look

    Glad to hear you managed to sort it all out. The commonly use 'binary' texture size, eg 512*256, is due to the requirements of the DDS format (mip map reduction by half each step) but oddly shaped textures will still work in TGA format. In fact if you resize them to 'binary' size the skin will most likely not fit anymore.

    You have now been inducted into the circle of 'believers in good housekeeping'
    Additional worship available in scripting and mapping....



  14. #74
    Mylae's Avatar Memento Mori
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    oh, I am already a follower
    We actually have started refurbishing all models under a different internal annotation in modeldb and EDU, so to have standard names for all units based on nationality, level, type of armament. In this way the modeldb is much more cleaner, and giving values in the EDB could be done easily.

    As for mapping, I also spotted some crashes that are not checked through Geomod, both in the family tree and on mapping positions.
    I'm all ears in about scripting, as I guess you could give us insightful advices
    Extravagant developer of Invasio Barbarorum: Flagellum Dei; Developer of Paeninsula Italica
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  15. #75
    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Mylae View Post
    Maybe I said it erroneously. There are no crashes whatsoever in battles/sieges etc, but on stratmap.
    Stratmap models that I received from Tzardoms come with a variety of textures in large format and different shapes. I have resized them to an uniform 512x512 to all of them, saved as .tga or .dds without mipmaps and voilą! There are no crashes anymore. The game loads without troubles on new pc.
    The problem lied not in the ingame models, but rather in the textures used, as there were some odd shaped ones (1100x110 or 512x1024) and other larger than needed (1024x1024 or even 2048x2048)
    For battle units, all our textures are 1024x1024, wit the exception of the Marka Horses who are 1024x2048. And you can be assured that there are no weird skinning proportions...
    Wait...strat_map city models do NOT need .dds minimaps to work properly? Are we sure about it? Maybe those minimaps are making my strat_map models textures TOO "HEAVY"..
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  16. #76
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    Scripting good house keeping = terminate wherever possible.
    Bovi also just brought out a tool that checks unused counters amongst other cool checks.

    Strat map textures - TGA is enough afaik.



  17. #77

    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    good to see that their is a good solution for the strat cities hereas i must use the one wich name schould not be named too play most of the big mods.
    Last edited by stevietheconquer; September 13, 2018 at 02:57 PM.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    I have one question. Can someone from team show me those french gendarmes ingame screenshot. I realy want to see diversity in that unit, and they'r mounts, if possible ofc.

  19. #79
    Cesco's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    Our team member Pietro is currently reworking horses' harnesses...for now have a look at our elite infantry unit. You might find them in the armies of the most famous and rich condottieres or Signorie.

    Huic ab adulescentia bella intestina, caedes, rapinae, discordia civilis grata fuerunt ibique iuventutem suam exercuit

  20. #80
    Mylae's Avatar Memento Mori
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    Default Re: Machiavello TW (mid XV Century Italy) - update 13/06/2018

    another small update - first new artillery trial

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Extravagant developer of Invasio Barbarorum: Flagellum Dei; Developer of Paeninsula Italica
    Creator of the XV-Century Machiavello Total War Mod (2.0) for M2TW



    Honorabilis Gaius Baltar est mihi patronum.

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