The Total War Chat Thread

[Incendio]

Which period do you think would be the next historical Total War after Troy? Try to guess, I have my opinion but I would like to read yours.

[Abdülmecid I]

The strongest candidate is the medieval era. Both popular and relatively easy to implement. Alternatively, they could focus more on the 14th and 15th centuries and feature multiple theaters of war, imitating the trilogy of Warhammer (e.g. Europe, Americas and East Asia). They will also cater to many new Korean and Chinese customers, who firstly became familiar with the franchise with Three Kingdoms. That being said, in my opinion, the days of the historical Total War are numbered. Frankly, fantasy sells more. Warhammer remains the flagship of the series, while even in what concerns Three Kingdoms, the romance mode is much more popular than its records counterpart.

This tendency is also reflected in Troy, where Creative Assembly didn't even bother to create a more scientifically plausible version, where there are no supernaturally strong heroes and one-man units, in order to pander to the more traditional section of its fandom. Truth be told, the community has evolved dramatically in the last few years: Complaints now usually concern CA's reluctance to include monsters in the Saga game, instead of pedantic comments about the armour of Ptolemaic Egypt. I wouldn't be surprised if the game developed by the Sofia studio serves as a testing ground and introduction for a future Total War: Mythology, planned to be announced once the Warhammer trilogy is completed.

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

If they're going for a medieval era, I would prefer that to be the time they change up the formula. But at this point I've been thinking there's room and time for another company to make the intersection between simplicity and depth, with decent battles accompanying a similarly crafted and potentially immersive campaign that pays mind to at least trying to be actually authentic. My thought lately has been, maybe it's better that CA move on and simplify their games further/delve into the fantastical elements that seem to appeal to a modern base, and another company pick up the depth that is lost without going full CK2.

[-Durango-]

The strongest candidate is the medieval era. Both popular and relatively easy to implement. Alternatively, they could focus more on the 14th and 15th centuries and feature multiple theaters of war, imitating the trilogy of Warhammer (e.g. Europe, Americas and East Asia). They will also cater to many new Korean and Chinese customers, who firstly became familiar with the franchise with Three Kingdoms. That being said, in my opinion, the days of the historical Total War are numbered. Frankly, fantasy sells more. Warhammer remains the flagship of the series, while even in what concerns Three Kingdoms, the romance mode is much more popular than its records counterpart.

This tendency is also reflected in Troy, where Creative Assembly didn't even bother to create a more scientifically plausible version, where there are no supernaturally strong heroes and one-man units, in order to pander to the more traditional section of its fandom. Truth be told, the community has evolved dramatically in the last few years: Complaints now usually concern CA's reluctance to include monsters in the Saga game, instead of pedantic comments about the armour of Ptolemaic Egypt. I wouldn't be surprised if the game developed by the Sofia studio serves as a testing ground and introduction for a future Total War: Mythology, planned to be announced once the Warhammer trilogy is completed.

I sincerely hope you're wrong, but I'm afraid that you're right.

Introducing fantasy in Total War was like opening Pandora's box. It cannot be undone. So many other types of games feature fantasy worlds, monsters and hero mechanics (Elder Scrolls, Warcraft, MOBAs etc) that the audience for it just dwarfs the historical fan base. The financial potential is there, and the charts don't lie. I used to be a regular over on the subreddit /r/totalwar, but in the last few years it has become unbearable as there's nothing there but Warhammer memes. Page after page.

The audience has naturally shifted with this development. I don't have concrete statistics, but I bet that the average age of a Total War player (due to Warhammer) has been lowered by a lot. The maturity level and technical interest in mechanics and authenticity has dropped. Yeah, I realize that I might now have become that "old complainer" who pines for days gone by... but damn, still after the release of Rome 2 I looked forward to that the future of the series headed. Now I no longer care. The hope of some day getting an in depth sequel to Empire Total War packed with historical details, interesting and realistic mechanics, and a serious tone is fading away.

[Love Mountain]

A trilogy that could focus on different world theatres in the same time period would be phenomenal. Done properly, like the Warhammer series, it could be a true Magnum Opus of the studio. Modders can pick up and fill in what the original misses. I hope Warhammer has shown that a great standalone game can continue generating revenue for years and pave the ground for future "expansions". That said, like Abdul said, I'm not holding out great hopes. It's clear that the marketing heads are incapable of generating excitement and sales for historical figures and content. This is not the fault of the source material, which has been translated into great commercial success in film, books, and other games, but at this particular juncture with the current creative talent, a successful commercial product of that scale and magnitude simply is not possible. Even if it was, it is simply too risky considering their track record.

[Huberto]

I sincerely hope you're wrong, but I'm afraid that you're right.

Introducing fantasy in Total War was like opening Pandora's box. It cannot be undone. So many other types of games feature fantasy worlds, monsters and hero mechanics (Elder Scrolls, Warcraft, MOBAs etc) that the audience for it just dwarfs the historical fan base. The financial potential is there, and the charts don't lie. I used to be a regular over on the subreddit /r/totalwar, but in the last few years it has become unbearable as there's nothing there but Warhammer memes. Page after page.

The audience has naturally shifted with this development. I don't have concrete statistics, but I bet that the average age of a Total War player (due to Warhammer) has been lowered by a lot. The maturity level and technical interest in mechanics and authenticity has dropped. Yeah, I realize that I might now have become that "old complainer" who pines for days gone by... but damn, still after the release of Rome 2 I looked forward to that the future of the series headed. Now I no longer care. The hope of some day getting an in depth sequel to Empire Total War packed with historical details, interesting and realistic mechanics, and a serious tone is fading away.

I hear you, but I'm not sure history is dead yet. The key metric is whether the people that play fantasy care about the history titles at all. Ironically if they don't care, that means history only fans have a fairly substantial base. There do seem to be a lot of folks still playing the history titles, added together they are usually greater in numbers than those playing WH (1+2).

SEGA can still make a lot of money selling us updated "classic" TW titles (e.g. Med 3 or Empire 2). Also there is a lot of risk for them if they try to develop their own fantasy IP. With WH coming to an end in the next few years, and 3K spinning its wheels, Med 3 seems like a safe bet for 2022-33. I'm also hopeful that the battles will change for the better with more soldiers and larger maps, and that campaign depth introduced with 3K will continue and be refined. On the other hand I agree that introducing fantasy elements in history titles is a bad sign, but would they really mess with Medieval 3 or ETW 2 that much??

[Incendio]

Hi

I am pretty sure this had been discussed before and I apologize if I am repeating an old topic. Does anyone know if there is a ranking of Total War games by sold units or by sales? In other words, I would like to know which Total War titles have had more success in terms of sales or even in terms of players or other metrics. We may guess then which strategy may CA follows in the future according to their success.

[Daruwind]

Hi

I am pretty sure this had been discussed before and I apologize if I am repeating an old topic. Does anyone know if there is a ranking of Total War games by sold units or by sales? In other words, I would like to know which Total War titles have had more success in terms of sales or even in terms of players or other metrics. We may guess then which strategy may CA follows in the future according to their success.

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...-player-counts

My thread has only 2 pages so is it fully possible to read through various pieces and dynamics. The last estimation is from December 2019

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...1#post15862021

Just look at SteamDB to do yearly comparison

Empire, Napoleon, Rome2, Wh, Wh2, 3K -- 2-5 Millions range
Attila -- 1-2 Millions range
ToB -- 200-500 K range

Sadly SteamDB has no more details. We have to wait till fist TW title reach next category which is 5-10 Millions of owners.

Only one conclusion. Wh1 was massive quick success, Wh2 got the similar numbers even quicker, 3K had way way massive launch into 1/2 millions shortly after release and is thus the biggest launch so far but it has also biggest dropoff as CA in first half year released almost no content...

[Jadli]

I was wondering, do you think there is any specific reason why wouldnt Medieval II and other older TW games being offered at the official TW site? https://www.totalwar.com/games/

[Daruwind]

It is not probably due to Sega buying CA in 2005 as Rome: Total War BI...
It is not probalby due to Warscape engine as that the current base was firstly used with Empire
Shogun 2..FotS were first to utilize properly "new" now "old" launcher but it was around FotS that CA got kinda current model right..
And finally, not so long ago CA renamed FotS into Saga while packed all DLCs to Empire/Napoleon to definitive edition so you no longer must pay for them. From this I would say, CA is not expecting major cash from Empire/Napoleon while still some revenue from FotS...

Everything up to Med2 is old tech. Unless they will remaster it someday, there is no need for it. Plus remastering would be direct competition with newer title. You can remaster Warcraft 3, C&C, AoE 1/2 as there are no current new version like Warcraft 4. AoE 4 is far away....But there is a lot new TWs..ToB, 3K, Whs..

[Leonardo]

Everything up to Med2 is old tech. Unless they will remaster it someday, there is no need for it.

I am fairly certain that CA will never re-master the older game titles, unless it's part of their strategy for the future.

[Daruwind]

They did some "support" to get it on iOS..well via Feral Interactive. I can imagine slowly such way even for others later...
https://support.feralinteractive.com...-games/rometw/
https://support.feralinteractive.com...es/napoleontw/

Question is, what we imagine after re-mastering. Support new systems, FULL HD, such yes. AoE 1/2 style probably not....

Point is, CA don´t need older games so much. They are printing new ones....

[zachman1201]

So I am not sure if this is supposed to go here so please move if not allowed. But I just started a new segment on my channel where we chat about all things total war. A Round table discussion if you will. Here is the first episode in my new series of Round Table Discussion with members from my Discord. We talk about a bunch of topics relating to Total War such as Total War: Elysium, Total War: Troy, Medieval 3 (if there ever will be one), Total War: Arena, the recent giveaway of Shogun II and much more! Be sure to let me know in the comments what you think of the video and anything we discuss. If you want to be involved in the next round table discussion let me know on the Discord! Enjoy!

[Basileos Leandros I]

I am fairly certain that CA will never re-master the older game titles, unless it's part of their strategy for the future.

Remastering is tricky - it's a delicate fine line of balance between redoing the graphics and creating a half-new game. Medieval 2 TW doesn't need a remaster honestly, the graphics are perfectly okay even after 15 years.

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

If anything could use a remaster, it's the likes of Medieval I.

[Daruwind]

Depends what the remaster will look like. Warcraft III is crappy one, Age of Empires II HD or Def edition is something totally else.

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

CA isn't in the remaster business; my overall faith aside, we don't have much to say one way or another unless we jimmy up logic from their foray into the Alien franchise. I'd like to think they're a mite more humble than thinking they're too big to fail or could get away with a Warcraft 3 Reforged release, and if they did it, would release something about the level of what we can expect from them. Granted, that's a bit of a range and not necessarily optimism, but at least not likely to result in the level of nonsense the big name flops have.

[Daruwind]

I think mostly the difference is that companies relying on remasters usually do it once they have no successful product now or for near future. Basically to overcome such period of time...or because no better/cheap project is on sight.

CA has no problem at moment with live products so there is zero need to remaster older successful stuff.

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

A holdover, generally, for much more ambitious things. Given the way CA's releases work, that logic does indeed not really apply, and the main reason would be novelty/expecting to break into sales from the unique style. Properly modernizing a med 1 at this point wouldn't be an insignificant effort, though. It would outright require far more than just a reskin to make a dent in the modern day. Creatively speaking it isn't a stretch at all and wouldn't remotely be 'just a mere holdover', especially compared to the rome 2/attila/thrones period.

[Incendio]

Hi Total War fans. I want to discuss something I have been thinking. Would it be possible for CA to make a Total War game based on Pike and Shot period? I have been playing to Pike & Shot Campaigns and I really enjoy the concept, the variety of units and the battle mechanics. I don't know how difficult would be to implement Pike and Shot Campaigns units and battle mechanics to Total War engine. I would be more than happy with 20 stacks/units per army. The variety of units and formations would be the most challenging part, but I've seen Medieval 2 still have pikemen with good animations and musketeers, arquebuisiers, cuirassiers with pistols would be similar to what we have seen in Medieval 2 and Empire. This period has more variety in units/tactics/weapons than any other period of history. What do you think?