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Thread: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

  1. #121
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    This article puts it across somewhat well, if I paraphrase-

    It seems that now that ‘boy’ is gone from the name, while a mixed scouting organisation is admirable, it doesn’t sit well with me that it requires to cannibalise an already flourishing organisation.

    Girls deserve an organisation of their own it seems, but boys do not.

    An all male (and formerly heterosexual) group? Exclusionary expression of toxic masculinity and patriarchy.

    An all female group? feminine empowerment and solidarity.

    I think many people are missing the mark here. It’s not that boys and girls shouldn’t be allowed to have a joint scouting organisation, it’s the effectual dismantling of another group to achieve that goal that many object to.

    Boy’s Life is the monthly magazine of the BSA. I wonder will it have to change too.

    Anecdotes are nice and all, but does anybody have any studies on the effects of gender-mixed scouts or similar groups? Judging by the effect of the presence of girls in other groups, ranging from military units to Internet forums, it is not always sunshine and rainbows. There are always benefits and drawbacks.
    Boys tend to form large hierarchical groups more (which suits a scout group), whereas girls tend to form smaller cliques or dryads, on their own v

    Boys are known to base their friendships on shared physical activities more; the ‘side by side’ phenomenon, have less fragile and emotional ‘bonds’ in a group, more likely to remain friends after a fight or argument, and have less emotional attachment to others than girls do.

    Male-male relationships tend to be more ‘casual’ while female-female

    Everyone’s personal experiences are different, but my personal anecdotes support these assumptions, others might not, and that’s fine.

    Its important to note that these tendencies are merely trends and not the rule, that doesn’t mean that co-ed Scouts doesn’t have the right to exist. It does, and parents should have the right to choose that option. However, the same fact these trends are not the rule also and equally does not mean that Boy Scouts doesn’t have the right to exist either. For this reason, removing the word ‘boy’ from an organisation known for empowering young men (in the same way that Girl Scouts empowers girls) is symbolic of something also happening elsewhere in Western culture.

    There should be a Boy and a Girl Scouts, and so should a co-ed Scouts if parent says or faith groups feel so inclined. Why? Because boys deserve a male only space to socialise and take part in shared physical activity just as much as girls deserve a female-only one. Why should it be the Boy Scouts and not Girl Scouts that has to move over, is it just because they’re better at what they do?
    Last edited by Aexodus; May 10, 2018 at 08:52 AM.
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  2. #122

    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    It was my impression that integration would be up to the Pack or Troop. Some will remain all boys, some boys and Girls troops/ packs, and some integrated. I am not sure how the logistics would work out in an integrated pack or troop on camping trips.

  3. #123
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Tents will still have to be male-only and female-only.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Maybe they’re gonna need twice the tents now

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    and what Himster was alluding to... some parents won’t want their daughters returning home from camp, pregnant. There’s generally not many places to get a condom in the woods...

  4. #124

    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Here come the anti-fraternization and no PDA rules.

  5. #125
    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Tents will still have to be male-only and female-only.
    Well obviously.

    Maybe they’re gonna need twice the tents now
    If they have twice the numbers, then yeah.

    and what Himster was alluding to... some parents won’t want their daughters returning home from camp, pregnant. There’s generally not many places to get a condom in the woods...
    That's exactly where rubbers come from
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  6. #126

    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    I think if I have any goal here it's as a former scout who believes there's value in the organisation, a value girls can get also if they like, and that the scouts is strengthened by admitting girls.

    Saying everything is marxist just looks ing childish.
    If only girls had a scouting organization they could belong to which shares by and large the same values as the BSA....

    One of the tenets of Marxism is that class inequalities carry over to gender by structural restrictions in society, and that while these inequalities exist conflict is inevitable. Conflict can only be avoided by demolishing all differences between the classes/genders. So while calling Marxist strategies Marxist to you looks "ing childish" I would say it looks a lot less childish than calling something childish instead of forming a cogent counterargument.

  7. #127
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    That's exactly where rubbers come from
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I stand corrected sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  8. #128

    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    If only girls had a scouting organization they could belong to which shares by and large the same values as the BSA....

    One of the tenets of Marxism is that class inequalities carry over to gender by structural restrictions in society, and that while these inequalities exist conflict is inevitable. Conflict can only be avoided by demolishing all differences between the classes/genders. So while calling Marxist strategies Marxist to you looks "ing childish" I would say it looks a lot less childish than calling something childish instead of forming a cogent counterargument.
    "Chickens are bipedal by definition. People have two legs, therefore they are chicken as well". That's what your argument boils down to. Marxists are okay with unisex scouting organizations, but that doesn't necessarily mean everyone that's okay with unisex scouting organizations are Marxists themselves.


  9. #129

    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayattasa View Post
    "Chickens are bipedal by definition. People have two legs, therefore they are chicken as well". That's what your argument boils down to. Marxists are okay with unisex scouting organizations, but that doesn't necessarily mean everyone that's okay with unisex scouting organizations are Marxists themselves.
    not my argument

  10. #130

    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    not my argument
    It most definitely is sir. To say your opinion is ridiculous is to put it softly.
    I was a Scout for some fourteen years, in Europe, where mixed scouting groups have been the norm for thirty years, I can assure you, we haven't stopped doing outdoors activities nor are we 'indoctrinating' children.



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  11. #131

    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Tents will still have to be male-only and female-only.
    Speaking from my experience, we often had both cases. One tent for a patrol, and that was it.

  12. #132

    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    We're not talking about European scouting, and you're still misconstruing my argument.

  13. #133

    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    We're not talking about European scouting, and you're still misconstruing my argument.
    Your argument misconstrued itself if that’s the best you have. Try again and do better.
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  14. #134

    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Am I the only one seeing the irony in leftist Europeans rhetorically distancing themselves from Marxist views of the world while simultaneously reveling in them? I'm sorry you don't like the label, but a spade is a spade.

  15. #135
    LaMuerte's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Am I the only one seeing the irony in leftist Europeans rhetorically distancing themselves from Marxist views of the world while simultaneously reveling in them? I'm sorry you don't like the label, but a spade is a spade.
    You're probably the only one. Most of us moved on a long time ago. Why do you keep dredging up marxism like a freshman?
    Last edited by LaMuerte; May 10, 2018 at 07:46 PM.

  16. #136
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    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMuerte View Post
    You're probably the only one. Most of us moved on a long time ago. Why do you keep dredging up marxism like a freshman?
    It is the new Boogeyman, and Marxism is mostly taken out of context for their new conspiracy.
    Last edited by Karnil Vark Khaitan; May 11, 2018 at 04:22 AM. Reason: Thanks Pike ^^

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  17. #137
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    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    'cultural appropriation ', 'safe space', 'boy scouts matter', 'boygony', 'matriarchy'? Any other good slogans
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  18. #138

    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    One of the issues with Europeans trying to balk at American youth culture is that our age of consent is considerably higher than most countries in Europe. Most European countries still have a medieval age of consent at 15. So when it comes to adolescent campouts there is generally strict rules about fraternizing with other genders because they know that hormonal co-eds together in the woods isn't exactly the smartest thing for a state where teen pregnancy is already high enough.
    Last edited by Admiral Piett; May 13, 2018 at 02:07 AM.
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  19. #139
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    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Tents will still have to be male-only and female-only.
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    Well obviously.
    Nope, not really. Most scouts in the world go to mixed systems. We have been sleeping in the same tent with women even when we were in highschool and since we were several people in the same tent nothing "suspicious" happened. We didn't have alcohol and we could keep it in our pants without attacking girls.
    Really, it was never an issue nor I have even thought about it until you just mentioned it here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Piett View Post
    One of the issues with Europeans trying to balk at American youth culture is that our age of consent is considerably higher than most countries in Europe. Most European countries still have a medieval age of consent at 15. So when it comes to adolescent campouts there is generally strict rules about fraternizing with other genders because they know that hormonal co-eds together in the woods isn't exactly the smartest thing for a state where teen pregnancy is already high enough.
    Nope. I was a scout for over a decade. We have been to camps with as little as 6-7 people to as many as several hundred. All mixed. Always mixed tents. It was never an issue nor I even heard stories about pregnant teen scouts.
    Also: I am not sure teen pregnancy is higher in Northern Europe than it is in USA. Do you have stats?
    Last edited by alhoon; May 13, 2018 at 03:32 AM.
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  20. #140

    Default Re: Boy Scouts of America agree to 'inclusive' name change

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayattasa View Post
    Is the government or something else obligating them now? It's a private organization, they do whatever the hell they want within the law. This whole thread is pure non-sense.
    You returned to repeat your first argument without understanding anything I pointed to..

    As a result Girl Scouts is under pressure to be dissolved, and groups such as the Mormons withdrew their people from the mixed Scouts, and will be promoting their activities in "Amish-only" groups.

    Just because one "can do whatever it wants" doesn't mean there's no bounce-back from reality. Freedom and Omnipotence are different things.

    Also putting boys and girls in their hormonal prime together in the woods, with no acess to condoms, while suposedly pushing a lower teenager pregnancy rate...

    What could possibly go wrong?
    Obviously only Ultra-Fascism could screen anything harmful here.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Nope, not really. Most scouts in the world go to mixed systems. We have been sleeping in the same tent with women even when we were in highschool and since we were several people in the same tent nothing "suspicious" happened. We didn't have alcohol and we could keep it in our pants without attacking girls.
    Really, it was never an issue nor I have even thought about it until you just mentioned it here.
    So what? The fact you did not get involved does not mean nothing sexual happened between the others. Obviously people don't do those things in open where it's visible to everyone. They can be sneaky and choose a place and time where no one is around. Could be you just weren't aware.

    And girls "attack" too, it's not only males who have the ability to make a move.
    Last edited by fkizz; May 13, 2018 at 11:07 AM. Reason: confused mormons with amish
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