Morality of abortion

[basics]

In olden times the lure of sex was no different from what we see today, its Divine intention long since disregarded, so really morality has long gone also. However there is no doubt that even in ancient times there were people who performed abortion, the sad thing being that today it has been turned into a cottage industry or worse. Yes we have many things cut from the human body, things that are detrimental to life, but no-one here can make any excuses for aborting what is another human life as it begins its way into humanity, why? Because it is not a cancer, a tumour or any other thing that is a danger to the mother or itself meaning that it is not something to be discarded at the whim of another.

[Elfdude]

Interesting, so a box of 36 condoms for about 15 dollars or a box of 12 for about $7 confirms your assertionthat condoms are rarely as inexpensive as .50 cents each (which is what Aexodus said).

Cause teens buy in bulk.

While your "point" was: "Contraception is not taught in the US. So no, you're wrong."
Not that 1/3 of males and 1/5 of females are not taught about contraception, but that no one is.

The meaning of that sentence can be interpreted in a variety of ways, when I say it is not hot, it does not mean there's an absence of heat, when I say america is obese, it does not mean there aren't skinny people. The point of the sentence is that contraception education in the US is not good enough as an answer to the implications of aexodus' argument, it's a point which still stands.

[Aexodus]

Well Elfdude.

We appears to have a problem of insufficient contraceptive and sexual education.

How about.

Instead of killing babies.

We teach better contraceptive and sexual education, and if people continue to ignore what they already know, they take responsibility for their actions.

[Elfdude]

I'm down for that. Also 9 months sentence to parasite at minimum is a bit of a harsh sentence for improper use of contraception or failure to do so. Seems odd to me that it's only the woman who has to serve this sentence.

[Aexodus]

I'm down for that. Also 9 months sentence to parasite at minimum is a bit of a harsh sentence for improper use of contraception or failure to do so.

It is not a ‘sentence’. She knew she would likely get pregnant. Sex isn’t simply just for fun. To think that way is perverted, I’m sorry. Enjoyment is obviously a part of it, but if someone is irresponsible enough to get pregnant when they’re not ready, that’s on them, not the baby that did nothing wrong other than existing.

Seems odd to me that it's only the woman who has to serve this sentence.

Are you ing kidding me. You’re complaining that it’s women who get pregnant. Wow.

Also, do men really have nothing to contribute to the upbringing of a child?

[Elfdude]

Only one gender gets pregnant, so the consequences only really affect one person.

If a guy decides he doesn't care about pressuring a girl into sex he can walk away, why the double standard here?

[Aexodus]

Only one gender gets pregnant, so the consequences only really affect one person.

Try telling that to a young couple raising a child.

[Elfdude]

Yeah, just did. Pretty easy. I'm not sure what that was supposed to prove.

It's an indisputable fact that the guy has a choice whereas the woman doesn't in that situation. Even if she puts the child up for adoption the 9 months is still a costly disequilibrium she must carry.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Only one gender gets pregnant, so the consequences only really affect one person.

Fatherhood so cheaply flushed down the toilet, perhaps this is the crux of the left.

[Gaidin]

Fatherhood so cheaply flushed down the toilet, perhaps this is the crux of the left.

That’s child raising.

[Aexodus]

Yeah, just did. Pretty easy. I'm not sure what that was supposed to prove.

It's an indisputable fact that the guy has a choice whereas the woman doesn't in that situation. Even if she puts the child up for adoption the 9 months is still a costly disequilibrium she must carry.

If your contention is that we should legalise abortion allowing people to end a life because its a temporary inconvenice to the mother, then that is incredibly hollow, not to mention the fact that bearing children is kinda womens' biological role. If you have a problem with that, maybe take it up with mother nature, or god idk. In essence, you're taking issue with the basic fundamentals and morals of life.

disequilibrium

you do realise you're taking issue with the fact that men and women are different here

life is not about equality. Women are not oppressed by their pregnancies, they ar not oppressed by nature

You call it a disequilibrium, how about the fact that most divorce cases end up with the woman getting custody of the kids, and father having to pay for her independence.

[Common Soldier]

I'm down for that. Also 9 months sentence to parasite at minimum is a bit of a harsh sentence for improper use of contraception or failure to do so. Seems odd to me that it's only the woman who has to serve this sentence.

9 months is a lot better than the man who has to serve an 18 year financial burden where he has no say, and solely because the woman chose for entirely selfish reasons to impose the burden. After 9 months are done, the woman can legally walk away with no strings, the man is stuck with his 18 year burden, he doesn't get a choice.

9 months is a lot less than 18 years. And if the woman changes her mind and gets rid of the kid, ala Casey Anthony, the man doesn't get a refund.

[Infidel144]

Cause teens buy in bulk.



The meaning of that sentence can be interpreted in a variety of ways, when I say it is not hot, it does not mean there's an absence of heat, when I say america is obese, it does not mean there aren't skinny people. The point of the sentence is that contraception education in the US is not good enough as an answer to the implications of aexodus' argument, it's a point which still stands.

I.e. you did not actually mean what you said. Indicating that you did know that saying 'contraception is not taught in the US' was wrong, but chose to say it anyways.
Thus, again, confirming that you lie. A lot.

[The spartan]

In olden times the lure of sex was no different from what we see today, its Divine intention long since disregarded, so really morality has long gone also. However there is no doubt that even in ancient times there were people who performed abortion, the sad thing being that today it has been turned into a cottage industry or worse. Yes we have many things cut from the human body, things that are detrimental to life, but no-one here can make any excuses for aborting what is another human life as it begins its way into humanity, why? Because it is not a cancer, a tumour or any other thing that is a danger to the mother or itself meaning that it is not something to be discarded at the whim of another.

It is interesting you bring up history because, historically, abortion was rarely ever an issue that the government tried to legislate. Abortion was very much a medical procedure by the forming of the US Constitution, but no lawmakers would have dared to put some law in preventing. It was considered a familial issue to deal with internally, not something that the government told people they could not do. It was a private affair, and to bring it up would be embarrassing.

[basics]

In my time on the planet I remember whenever a guy got a lass pregnant a shotgun wedding was then brought about. There was no let-off for both as they had to pay the consequences of their actions. Of course many men shot the crow as the saying goes meaning that if the lass's family weren't prepared to take her in the child was usually put into a home which we are now finding out had many faults but not always. The good thing is that more were taken into the family to be given the love and care that made their start in life that bit more positive. Since the rise of abortion consequences don't matter anymore and that is bad for all parties in my opinion.

[The spartan]

In my time on the planet I remember whenever a guy got a lass pregnant a shotgun wedding was then brought about. There was no let-off for both as they had to pay the consequences of their actions. Of course many men shot the crow as the saying goes meaning that if the lass's family weren't prepared to take her in the child was usually put into a home which we are now finding out had many faults but not always. The good thing is that more were taken into the family to be given the love and care that made their start in life that bit more positive. Since the rise of abortion consequences don't matter anymore and that is bad for all parties in my opinion.

Very quaint, but I am not interested "in your time". I am talking about the history of the human race here. The founders of the nation were well aware of abortion and did not think it was something the government should interfere with, let alone ban it. Cultures have practiced abortion for thousands of years, and it was considered a personal and family matter.

[Sir Adrian]

Only one gender gets pregnant, so the consequences only really affect one person.

If a guy decides he doesn't care about pressuring a girl into sex he can walk away, why the double standard here?

That's a lie. The consequences affect both genders equally since both genders share responsibility of raising the child. Yes only one gender gives birth, but the other gender has to provide and accommodate for the duration of the pregnancy and at least the following 18 years.

To leave the decision of pregnancy only to women is as criminal as having only men decide when women get to eat.

[Gaidin]

Again, that’s not the pregnancy. That’s child raising. As long as the woman is pregnant medical decisions are hers and any take the father has is because she allows it.

There’s a huge line in the sand called ‘childbirth’ delineating the two.

[fkizz]

Instead of killing babies.
We teach better contraceptive and sexual education, and if people continue to ignore what they already know, they take responsibility for their actions.

If people did that Abortion doctors would go unemployed. Abortion industry is a big market which operates on a competitive market base, each abortion doctor doing as much abortions per day possible. The business model often breaks even without abnormal profits, ie. price asked is not that far away from average unitary cost measured in time of the doctor doing the procedure.

This competitive model and how it reacts shows there is a lot of supply avaliable for the demand of abortions. This supply willingness means there's a lot of cash moving.

It also shows that if some abortion clinics closed it would give more profit opportunity for the ones remaining open, which would then invite new clinics to replace the old ones that closed, and so on. (assuming prices could have rose by some margin after some clinics closed)

Not wanting to invoke Say's law, but supply will create its demand, even if means of advertising or convincing people whatsoever.

There are interests other than moral debate at play here, who fight for more abortions, simply because for them, more abortions = more profit

[Aexodus]

Childbirth is a woman’s biological role.