Can the Polybian Era Last Longer?

[mrsmile1015]

Hello guys! I know the DEI team has their hands full and I hope I don't sound too entitled. But historical accuracy is a big deal for me and I hope many people here as well. I think the Polybian reforms ended too quickly in the game. Historically the Marian reforms took place around 108-106 BC. By that time, Rome has expanded to Pergamon in Asia. It would be a blast to fight as many Polybian maniples as I could to defend the Roman Republic!

Technicality wise, is it feasible to swap the Polybian reform technology with the Marian reforms instead to give players more control of the game?

[Beedo83]

There is a submod for exactly what you want, it's in the submods section on the first page I believe.

If you want you can even change the dates to your own liking using PFM. The numbers represented in PFM for each reform are the turn numbers when each reform is activated.

Not sure what you mean by swapping the reform tech but I'm sure someone that does will chime in?

[FlashHeart07]

The reforms trigger as they do due to people not wanting to play 400 turns just to reach the marian reforms. Though as already stated you can freely choose to Change the turn number they trigger. I fail to understand why you would switch polybian with marian reforms. Do you want to start with marian and progress to polybian?

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[♔Greek Strategos♔]

The reforms trigger as they do due to people not wanting to play 400 turns just to reach the marian reforms. Though as already stated you can freely choose to Change the turn number they trigger. I fail to understand why you would switch polybian with marian reforms. Do you want to start with marian and progress to polybian?

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I also don't get that part.

[vbus]

I think that people shouldn't focus so much on the date displayed by the game. Vanilla Rome just wasn't balanced for 4TPY, you and the AI will expand much faster than they would do in the historical date displayed. I also think that the Polybian era ends too quickly, but what I would do is just change the Imperium level required by one tier. With that you can at least have close to the Roman's territory by the time the Marian reforms happened. And, if you play by the house rule that you can't recruit core Roman units outside of Latium until the Marian Reforms, you will notice the logistical difficulties of controlling a large territory that way and how the Marian Reforms will change your game and the pace of your conquests.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I think that people shouldn't focus so much on the date displayed by the game. Vanilla Rome just wasn't balanced for 4TPY, you and the AI will expand much faster than they would do in the historical date displayed. I also think that the Polybian era ends too quickly, but what I would do is just change the Imperium level required by one tier. With that you can at least have close to the Roman's territory by the time the Marian reforms happened. And, if you play by the house rule that you can't recruit core Roman units outside of Latium until the Marian Reforms, you will notice the logistical difficulties of controlling a large territory that way and how the Marian Reforms will change your game and the pace of your conquests.

Good points. People should understand that Gameplay and Historical accuracy are 2 different things and sometimes all we can do is sacrifice a bit of accuracy in favor of a smoother gameplay.

[Goffredo85]

And why would you guys consider marian and imperial reforms essential to gameplay? A game starting in 278 BC set at 4 tpy is a game about middle republic. Late republic at most. I would be totaly fine having no more imperial reforms and making the marian ones obtainable very late in the game. It would make playing rome a little bit more difficult and would avoid the rush towards marian reforms that plagued total war a and its mods since rome 1. It seems like that you cant have romans without rectangular scutum amd lorica segmentata.

[Hockey85]

Sounds to me like he doesn't want to switch them, but make the Polybian era last longer (historically accurate dates), which is very simple to do.

You can simply use PFM to change the reform settings to exactly how you want them to work, it might take a little math to make them trigger during the exact year you wish.

Open up DEI pack 1 and go to - lua_scripts - reforms.lua

Scroll down to "PLAYER REFORMS PARAMTERS SECTION" and change the values for Rome here :
-- MAIN ROME CAMPAIGN
_lib.requirements.main_rome.player = {
roman = {3, 40, 5, 100, 7, 210},

The first values are imperium, then minimum turns to trigger the reform--- default above is.... Polybian 3 imperium, 40 turns/ Marian 5 imperium, 100 turns/ Imperial 7 imperium, 210 turns

Change all the imperium rates to 2 (making them irrelevant) and then set the number of turns to trigger on the exact years you wish for your reforms. So a main Roman campaign starts in 278 bc, if you want the Marion reforms to trigger at 108 BC then thats 170 years after the start date (x4 turns per year) = 680 turns------ roman = {2, ???, 2, 680, 2, ???}, and replace the other values with whenever you want those to trigger.

This is not save game compatible though.

[vbus]

And why would you guys consider marian and imperial reforms essential to gameplay? A game starting in 278 BC set at 4 tpy is a game about middle republic. Late republic at most. I would be totaly fine having no more imperial reforms and making the marian ones obtainable very late in the game. It would make playing rome a little bit more difficult and would avoid the rush towards marian reforms that plagued total war a and its mods since rome 1. It seems like that you cant have romans without rectangular scutum amd lorica segmentata.

You can customize your experience and even disable the Marian reforms for yourself if you want. However, even if you want to play a slower, historical game, it is very likely that the AI won't. Without further modding to its behavior, the AI will expand fast because Rome 2 was never balanced for a historical 4TPY experience. If someone doesn't want to play Late Republic they can just reenact the Punic and Macedonian Wars and end their campaign once they get to Syria. That's fine. But there are people that are interested in the whole period and want to experience Rome's military evolution in fullest. Also, the team has done such an amazing work with the Roman auxiliaries post-marian reforms that getting to that period makes for a very interesting strategic and tactical experience for most people.

I am an RPer in all of the Strategy games I play, that's part of the fun for me. I have tried to play the Roman Campaign historically, both here and back in EB. Personally, I find it a very frustrating endeavor, in part for the unpredictable AI behavior mentioned above. That's why I think people should abstract the displayed date and try to think of their games in a strategic sense. You can RP your decisions as they make sense strategically. Maybe in your campaign it will be better to leave the Insubres as clients, instead of conquering the entirety of Cisalpine Gaul, maybe Syracouse will beat Cartage in Sicily and the Garamantes will conquer Africa, so you won't have a Punic war, but a Syracusan and a Garamantian one. As you expand, and your army faces different enemies and their tactics, it makes sense that it will evolve. Maybe the game date is 230bc, but you have an Empire stretching from Spain to Asia, so it would make sense that your army would go through the "Marian Reforms", even though it is extremely ahistorical for it to happen so soon. Anyway, that's the way I've come to think of my Roman Campaigns, and I've been having much more fun with it now than I had when I tried to RP strictly under Rome's historical expansion.

[Dresden]

Suggestions for slower play (submods):
DeI AI Arbitris
Cultural Tensio
Alternative Economy or Hardcore Submod
Historical reform dates

[asher237]

Suggestions for slower play (submods):
DeI AI Arbitris
Cultural Tensio
Alternative Economy or Hardcore Submod
Historical reform dates

Yup. That's what I rock. Got Marian reforms last week, in 107 BC. Marius is my dictator right now and we are reeeeeally bumming out Pergamon on my days off. Looking to finish off the rump state of the Selukids sometime next week.

[Goffredo85]

I don't like slower campaigns. EB had a very slow campaign and it was boring in the end. Sure Rome 2 offers a little bit more to do in between battles than rome 1 but it will still be boring i think. Nor do i like following historical expansion as again it will be boring but even more it will be pointless. In my current roman campaign, after a very long war with carthage, i've just submitted the insubres only to find half europe dominated by the iceni, now i'm struggling to hold them back. And its just 220 BC. But its fun so its fine, the only regret would be not to fight all those beautiful gallic and beligic units. That being said i utterly fail to understand why marian/imperial reforms are a must for games set in such a time frame. This is not the principate era. Besides Rome 2 offers us several thematic campaings in which one can satisfy his lorica segmentata desires. The grand campaign shouldn't necessarily resemble a civilization campaign, getting youtr faction up from stone age to the far future...

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

And why would you guys consider marian and imperial reforms essential to gameplay?

Don't know. Maybe because they are for 99% of our users. If you don't like them feel free to mod them out.

[phylosopher stoned]

The game is called Rome 2, Rome is probably the most played faction, we know more about Rome than any other faction represented, naturally when most people play as Rome they want to see the progression in equipment and technology as the empire expands. It gives you a sense of accomplishment and a second wind when you get the new legions, nothing is gained by not having it.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

The game is called Rome 2, Rome is probably the most played faction, we know more about Rome than any other faction represented, naturally when most people play as Rome they want to see the progression in equipment and technology as the empire expands. It gives you a sense of accomplishment and a second wind when you get the new legions, nothing is gained by not having it.

Arguably. It's hardly imaginable playing Rome without the reforms.
@Ivan surely could elaborate more, as an exclusive Roman player.

[Goffredo85]

I'm an exclusive roman player too, since the times of rome 1. And I'm not asking for the removal of anything. The imperial/augustean reforms are already in, there is no gain in removing them. Besides it is easy enough to do it for those who wish so. I was just discussing design preferences. I just fail to understand why most gamers are so in love with early principate legionaries to the point that developers/modders have to squeeze them in at any cost. I'm just talking about imperial reforms here not the marian ones.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I'm an exclusive roman player too, since the times of rome 1. And I'm not asking for the removal of anything. The imperial/augustean reforms are already in, there is no gain in removing them. Besides it is easy enough to do it for those who wish so. I was just discussing design preferences. I just fail to understand why most gamers are so in love with early principate legionaries to the point that developers/modders have to squeeze them in at any cost. I'm just talking about imperial reforms here not the marian ones.

Maybe because we have made them extremely good looking. Their updated textures and assets are sweeter than pudding...NOT Bill Cosby's Jello Pudding though.

[Jake Armitage]

Maybe because we have made them extremely good looking. Their updated textures and assets are sweeter than pudding...NOT Bill Cosby's Jello Pudding though.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

He'll have plenty of pudding soon.

As for the Imperial legionnaires, couldn't tell you. 90% of the time I finish a file, I have conquered the entire map before I have Imperial reforms.

I honestly like the tactics and variety polybian Rome give.
Marian legionnaires can be fun too. But by that point I'm just walking over everything so it is less fun than the earlier game.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

He'll have plenty of pudding soon.

As for the Imperial legionnaires, couldn't tell you. 90% of the time I finish a file, I have conquered the entire map before I have Imperial reforms.

I honestly like the tactics and variety polybian Rome give.
Marian legionnaires can be fun too. But by that point I'm just walking over everything so it is less fun than the earlier game.

Oh he'll have plenty for sure.
Guilty as charged. I certainly prefer my Polybian army.