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Thread: Discussion and Debate Forum Panel

  1. #41

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Forum Panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfdude View Post
    The idea I'm confusing two threads is rather baseless, especially when you consider the content of the last two paragraphs are literally 90% of my entire post. I do think your imposition of a citizen police force (let's call it Pike's Rent-a-Mod) is exactly centralization and top down enforcement of silly behaviorism which as far as I've seen distills into what pike wants to mandate for all. I'm sorry but I see no real solution to your proposal and no link between your proposed solution and the actuality of the problem. I also find it curious that this time my words seem to be heard compared to the last several times I've posted the same ideas.
    What Citizen's Police force? I made no such promotion. The "Panel" is supposed to serve as a "think tank" for ideas as a continuation of this thread. It is, however, like everything else in the OP, just a suggestion. I made it clear that I do not want to promote nor advocate any change. The point of this thread is to provide a place for participants, like yourself, from the D&D section to come up with their own solutions.

    By all means, discuss your ideas. This is why I created this thread.

    (Note: The original OP had very little by way of a suggestion from me. I was criticized for having "no ideas," so I posted some ideas as a brainstorm.)

  2. #42
    Elfdude's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Forum Panel

    That's a fair response.

    Regardless, I've made my own proposal. I do think your previous threads however had some gold discussion from members you might want to check out as well.

  3. #43
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Forum Panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    That's not improving the Mudpit. That's cleansing it which is not something I want. For the record, the vast majority of posters in the Mudpit respond in good faith. There are very few posters who are intentionally disruptive in the Mudpit so I have no idea what you're talking about. The issue isn't one of trolls or disruption. The issue is a clashing of strong opinions which is happening increasingly frequently and the resulting breakdown of civility. The issue is not the users but the climate of antagonism.
    This is symptomatic of all debate forums. Be they history or politics or high philosophy.

    The end of a particular debate comes about only two ways:

    1. One of the parties loses interest.
    or
    2. One of the parties is banned/cautioned/warned.

    Everything else is just a test of ability to duck and weave around attempted 'gotchas'

    This tends to leave debates going on and on covering the same points over and over with no definitive conclusion. In this environment it is easy to get heated. Someone is confronting you with something that prompts cognitive dissonance. So you fire back. I tend to go into a topic and make my point. Debate for a couple of replies, then let it go. Otherwise you're just going in circles. People's cognitive bias doesn't let them agree with you. Instead it makes them double down against you, the more evidence you provide.

    If we wanted to be radical perhaps we might discuss ways of ending threads. The winning of debates.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  4. #44
    Elfdude's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Forum Panel

    Antaeus, the problem with debate is not necessarily those who participate but the structure of the participation. I.E. the rule of 1% states about 1% of a given population will create content, about 9% will contribute something while 90% will lurk, with the definition of that 9% and 90% remaining fluid. The vast majority of people participate in debates which are clear and understandable. Take a look at the forum in 2011 (amongst the height IMO) you'll notice a huge number of diverse threads, constant thread splitting, and no enormous threads whatsoever. Contentless posts got deleted consistently and echo chambers were often deleted as adding nothing. This cultivated a huge draw to the D&D forums which involved many people reading comments to get understandings of tense issues in turn they would participate when they could add or challenge something. These first forays into D&D were often featured with a ton of rep from folks if their points were well made regardless of the side they were on. We needn't win debates, we just need to change the format a bit to lend itself towards that style of D&D as opposed to the current style of D&D.

  5. #45
    Poach's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Forum Panel

    Considering the Curia's long and honourable history of quickly failing at pretty much any non-Curial task it's given I think it's safe to say that even if this idea is somehow adopted it'll quickly fizzle out and die. I'm looking at you, Curial Action Team, Curial Community Team, product review forum...

  6. #46

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Forum Panel

    The only thing "Curial" about this thread is that it is posted in the Curia.
    Last edited by PikeStance; May 04, 2018 at 09:46 PM.

  7. #47
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Forum Panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfdude View Post
    Antaeus, the problem with debate is not necessarily those who participate but the structure of the participation. I.E. the rule of 1% states about 1% of a given population will create content, about 9% will contribute something while 90% will lurk, with the definition of that 9% and 90% remaining fluid. The vast majority of people participate in debates which are clear and understandable. Take a look at the forum in 2011 (amongst the height IMO) you'll notice a huge number of diverse threads, constant thread splitting, and no enormous threads whatsoever. Contentless posts got deleted consistently and echo chambers were often deleted as adding nothing. This cultivated a huge draw to the D&D forums which involved many people reading comments to get understandings of tense issues in turn they would participate when they could add or challenge something. These first forays into D&D were often featured with a ton of rep from folks if their points were well made regardless of the side they were on. We needn't win debates, we just need to change the format a bit to lend itself towards that style of D&D as opposed to the current style of D&D.
    By winning debates, I mean that perhaps there should be a mechanism for concluding discussions/debates so we don't end up having circular cognitively biased conversations that go on for years (literally).

    Out of curiosity, have we ever put to the debaters any sort of fixed format questionnaire that discovers how and why people interact in the DnD? I don't mean a sticky post survey asking people what they want, I mean an actual fixed parameter questionnaire that might develop some insights into what makes the place tick. We are after all discussing based on personal opinion right now. I'm a firm believer in using numbers to gain insight before looking at change.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  8. #48

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Forum Panel

    For a good example of a successful and civil debate thread, check Conon’s “Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of Ukraine”. Probably the best example of a civil thread we have in the mudpit. Users had plenty to disagree on but there was a genuine interest to discuss rather than win Internet points. Note the lack of hostility from the users. The hope is to make the Mudpit emulate such conduct.
    .

  9. #49
    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Forum Panel

    By the way, as someone who doesn't contribute to the Curia very much, what is the actual purpose of this thread? How would it actually end up being implemented, will it eventually go for a vote?
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  10. #50

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Forum Panel

    The purpose is for members of the board who actively participate in the D&D section of the board to discuss ideas that could help improve that section of the board. I threw up a few ideas in the hopes of getting the rolling. Whether or not to present it as a "decision" my vote would depend on the nature of the proposal. If it is something that a good number of D&D regular want, then I doubt the vote would be anything more but a formality. I certainly would vote in favor of any proposal made regardless if I like the idea or not.

    I basically created this thread to give y'all a place to discuss.

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