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Thread: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

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    TheRomanRuler's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    Looks like these troops are thrusting. They are not, that is ready stance...
    This is what it looks like when they are thrusting

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    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    They are thrusting and they are using long spear kill animations, where is the issue?. Plus why make a thread about it instead of using existing sticked ones?
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    TheRomanRuler's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    Ehm, are you seeing what i am seeing? Because those spears clip horribly through friendlies and hostiles way worse than other weapons, even when they are NOT using them for thrusting. Pictures i provided show this clearly.

    Sorry for opening new thread, i was not thinking.

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    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRomanRuler View Post
    Ehm, are you seeing what i am seeing? Because those spears clip horribly through friendlies and hostiles way worse than other weapons, even when they are NOT using them for thrusting. Pictures i provided show this clearly.

    Sorry for opening new thread, i was not thinking.
    Hey buddy. So the issue is just clipping ? not their performance or stats ?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    Quote Originally Posted by Greek strategos View Post
    Hey buddy. So the issue is just clipping ? not their performance or stats ?
    Well since you mentioned it, their performance is pretty awful too. I know they dont have shields so their melee defence is low but they just melt in melee combat. Since they pull from the top population class it makes it harder to justify using them at all. I feel like the elite sparabara are a better bang for your buck.

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    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    I will look into their animation. I think they can be switched to pike (no shield) rather than spear animations like that levy pike unit without shields (forgot name), but they would also need a sword or axe then as a secondary weapon to work for melee outside of phalanx. Or we can keep them with current animations and a short spear like other archer spear units. Any preferences?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    Quote Originally Posted by mercenary715 View Post
    Well since you mentioned it, their performance is pretty awful too. I know they dont have shields so their melee defence is low but they just melt in melee combat. Since they pull from the top population class it makes it harder to justify using them at all. I feel like the elite sparabara are a better bang for your buck.
    I'm not a fan of the eastern nations, but I have to admit that this unit is really awesome. They have good armor level, 10 ammunition and perform well against cavalry. I don't know why you dislike them though, they can fight pretty well against middle stat units.

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    Default Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    I'm sure @Diego will solve any clipping issues. Now for their performance @KAM will need to take a look.
    Last edited by ♔Greek Strategos♔; April 04, 2018 at 11:04 AM.

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    Nordling's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    Quote Originally Posted by mercenary715 View Post
    Well since you mentioned it, their performance is pretty awful too. I know they dont have shields so their melee defence is low but they just melt in melee combat. Since they pull from the top population class it makes it harder to justify using them at all. I feel like the elite sparabara are a better bang for your buck.
    They got nice charge bonus tho and perform awesome as second line/reserve to rush into any gaps that might have occured and wreak havoc. Plus aforementioned cav-on-cav fight support. Theyre not supposed to hold the line - theyre supposed to loose all their arrows and flank/charge through gaps that emerged during front line battle. I have very good memory of this unit

  10. #10

    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordling View Post
    They got nice charge bonus tho and perform awesome as second line/reserve to rush into any gaps that might have occured and wreak havoc. Plus aforementioned cav-on-cav fight support. Theyre not supposed to hold the line - theyre supposed to loose all their arrows and flank/charge through gaps that emerged during front line battle. I have very good memory of this unit
    The elite sparabara does all that though without draining my top population class. Even when flanking in melee they take very heavy casualties. Media already is loaded with top population class units with their elite archers, axes, spear, and high end cav units. When you account for the population system, the satrap spears are simply not enough of an upgrade to justify their use.

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    Ritter-Floh's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    Quote Originally Posted by Don_Diego View Post
    I will look into their animation. I think they can be switched to pike (no shield) rather than spear animations like that levy pike unit without shields (forgot name), but they would also need a sword or axe then as a secondary weapon to work for melee outside of phalanx. Or we can keep them with current animations and a short spear like other archer spear units. Any preferences?
    no way, because they are also archers

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    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    They are fine for me the way the are now. They use long Persian spears, which were historically used and they are elite support/assault unit. Their charge is devastating and they should perform good against heavier units too. I never use Elite Sparabara but I always try to have those guys in. Probably depends on your own playstyle but they do fit mine.
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    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritter-Floh View Post
    no way, because they are also archers
    I mean as in a new pike bow animation
    I think best soloution to keep feel of the unit but make the animation better.

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    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    Quote Originally Posted by Don_Diego View Post
    I mean as in a new pike bow animation
    I think best soloution to keep feel of the unit but make the animation better.
    Sure, do your magic
    i mentioned it just because it's impossible to let them fire while in formation (and the damn AI turn it always on), thats why the Sparabara never used pike stance in any way - maybe i missed something and you are able to finish what i tried to include

  15. #15

    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    I agree with Kam, althought their animations indeed need a check.This unit is the definition of persian warfare.Reminds me of the early immortals Xerxes had.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    Yeah I tried but no other animations work well, only pike attack animations are for in formation and look bad in one to one melee. In battle I think the 2 handed spear attacks look ok, changing the spear to a short one looses the feel of that unit but is easy to mod if you dont like it. The chalybes pikemen also use the same spear attack animations along with other long spear units.
    Last edited by Don_Diego; April 06, 2018 at 07:37 AM.

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    TheRomanRuler's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    Quote Originally Posted by Greek strategos View Post
    Hey buddy. So the issue is just clipping ? not their performance or stats ?
    Correct, only visual issue.

    I have full faith in you and rest of the team, thank you for amazing mod!
    Last edited by TheRomanRuler; April 07, 2018 at 10:12 PM.

  18. #18
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar BEARDED MODERATION
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    Default Re: Arsti-Xsayoiya (Satrap Guard Spearmen) need shorter spears or new animations

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRomanRuler View Post
    Correct, only visual issue.

    I have full faith in you and rest of the team, thank you for amazing mod!
    As my esteemed colleague @Don_Diego mentioned, changing their animations (to short pikes) will create an issue with the basic design of the unit. Since it's a combined unit we're having some clippings, I agree it's not perfect though.

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