Question regarding legionary costs, stats and upkeep

[gabrielscunha]

Greetings all,

I'm currently playing an emperor Augustus campaign as Octavian Rome, and I have a question regarding the legionary units.

Stat-wise, I noticed that they seem almost the same in every aspect, except on maybe one or two points in attack, defence and so on. I know this definitely alters their battle efficiency by a notch, but shouldn't their costs vary more somehow?

I see that almost all of them have much similar upkeep and base costs, so what would I gain in recruiting the most basic legionary cohort that, while shying away from the Evocati, per example, is still a force to be reckoned with? Should I just recruit Evocatis? But wouldn't that basically render some units virtually useless? Shouldn't be there some financial disadvantage while recruiting Evocatis in detriment of regular cohorts that not only of 30 gold? Or maybe it is I that am getting something wrong?

My question only stems from the fact that in my current campaign I start with all legionaries unlocked and there is nothing that prevents me to just spamming the best units, even if I'm low on treasury, they cost almost the same.

[Augustusng]

The population system should prevent you from spamming some units, though the Romans have an easier time with it than many other factions.

[gabrielscunha]

The population system should prevent you from spamming some units, though the Romans have an easier time with it than many other factions.

Exactly what I thought. I currently start with such a high population that I have basically an infinite pool of dudes to be conscripted. Doesn't that break balance in the case of Augustus campaign?

[Dardo21]

Evocati units are limited to five per army, if you feel uncomfortable with that it's pretty easy to make a submod to reduce that number, i've limited mine to 4, or you can just make a rule for yourself to limit the amount you recruit.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

There is nothing stopping you from spamming veteran legionnaires in that particular campaign.

But there's also nothing stopping you from controlling yourself and not filling your entire army with veteran legionnaires.

A lot of these things come down to player choice. No matter how we balance things, something can always be exploited in a way that will make it overpowered or whatever.

Regardless, just because something is there doesn't mean you have to do it.

[gabrielscunha]

There is nothing stopping you from spamming veteran legionnaires in that particular campaign.

But there's also nothing stopping you from controlling yourself and not filling your entire army with veteran legionnaires.

A lot of these things come down to player choice. No matter how we balance things, something can always be exploited in a way that will make it overpowered or whatever.

Regardless, just because something is there doesn't mean you have to do it.

That's actually a pretty good point.

[Ichon]

I only raise veterans in times of emergency when some army has been defeated or a new front opened suddenly. Seems a bit weird to have veterans legionaries otherwise. Then disband when the emergency is done.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

The veterans are supposed to mean those called back, not just experienced legionnaires.If you want to play more historically, recruit these guys in conquered regions on the edge of your empire when raising a new army.

[JCB206]

I only raise veterans in times of emergency when some army has been defeated or a new front opened suddenly. Seems a bit weird to have veterans legionaries otherwise. Then disband when the emergency is done.

You Sir get +1 rep for the historical gameplay. This is exactly how to use Evocati. Having one in the army as soldiers that could not lead the lives of civilians. Though many of these veterans that signed on after their 20 years would become officers.

Curious, do the Evocati have lower stamina? These would all be men from the ages of 38-50 or so upon recruitment? Experienced troops in a pinch but not men I would want running around chasing light troops.

[Garbad]

With rome in particular the game will get boring unless you impose some house rules to force diversity. For example, maybe:

- No more than 8 roman units (12 must be auxillia/aor)
- All armies must be balanced (3-6 cav, 8-11 inf, 3-7 missile, 0-1 siege)
- No more than 5 noble population units
- Must use at least 5 tier 3/4 units
- Armies may only recruit from one province (excluding in field emergency replacements, ie, mercs and cheap aor)

So for example an army might be:

1 - general
1 - siege
4 - legionaries
2 - vet legionaries
4 - auxillia legionaries
2- german naked spearmen (used as a escort for the cavalry as described by caesar)
3 - german heavy horse
3 - german longbows

This will ideally make every legion different and not OP.

[JCB206]

The veterans are supposed to mean those called back, not just experienced legionnaires.If you want to play more historically, recruit these guys in conquered regions on the edge of your empire when raising a new army.

Evocati were recalled due to emergencies. One such was the civil war between Octavian and Antony. Many of Julius Caesar’s veterans were settled by Octavian and called back into service during the civil war. How many men this constituted I do not know, but Octavian did “retire” 10 legions after Actium. Some or most of these men would have been the men called up for the emergency.

Most, but not all, soldiers that reached retirement with a large sum and/or land, would be reluctant to serve in new campaigns. Most of these men would have some kind of ailments that would make younger men more enticing to recruit.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

I'm not sure why you're trying to explain to me what they are. What you said doesn't contradict anything in my post and I'm already well aware of what you said.

[JCB206]

I'm not sure why you're trying to explain to me what they are. What you said doesn't contradict anything in my post and I'm already well aware of what you said.

Didnt mean to upset you. I know your work. I didn’t post anywhere where you were wrong. Though I was contradicting the historical gameplay as they were for emergencies and not recruited when raising new armies. Though I know that no statement is 100% correct in either direction as some re-enlisted because they weren’t cut out for civilian life.

I am just posting historical statements for people to play historically. I wasn’t lecturing anyone.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

That's fine, I may have taken that little too personally. This is what happens in the morning when I don't have my coffee.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Didnt mean to upset you. I know your work. I didn’t post anywhere where you were wrong. Though I was contradicting the historical gameplay as they were for emergencies and not recruited when raising new armies. Though I know that no statement is 100% correct in either direction as some re-enlisted because they weren’t cut out for civilian life.

I am just posting historical statements for people to play historically. I wasn’t lecturing anyone.

That's fine, I may have taken that little too personally. This is what happens in the morning when I don't have my coffee.

We're all cool here. Ivan just needed his triple shot espresso.