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Thread: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

  1. #1

    Icon14 Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    i would love to hear from EVERYBODY on what formations they use in certain situations such as:

    1. open field battle
    2. defending seige
    3. taking a city (offense)
    4. taking a castle (offense)

    please describe your strategies as well - step by step through the progress of the battle.

    some good work related to this has already been done in this thread:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77927
    but i thought i'd create a dedicated thread just for this topic.

    i look forward to hearing from all the generals out there who have put some thought into where you are putting which troops, why, and what you have found in different situations listed above!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Open field:

    I am playing as Spain right now, and haven't gotten very far. So my formation is based on early units.

    My main army is something like this:

    General x 1
    Jenites x 7
    Frankish knights/Mailed knights x 5
    Mercenary Spearmen x 2
    Crosbows x 2
    Skirmishers (javlin) x 3

    I place them like this:


    JJJJJJJ__CSSSC__KKKKK
    _________X_X________
    __________G_________

    J - jenites (group 1)
    C - crosbow
    S - skirmishers
    K - knights (mounted) (group 2)
    X - spearmen
    G - general

    The rest is group 3.

    So, the idea is to push forward with the Jenites early on, skirmishing and harrasing the enemys infantry. Often this allows me to line up my knights for a perfect flanking maneuver. While doing so, group 3 is just moving closer to the enemy, at a steady, but rather slow pace. When my jenites are out of ammo (this happens quite quickly) or for whatever other reason I might have, I charge my knights in from the rear or flank at units I think will break easily due to the killing my jenites have been doing. At this point group 3 is close enough to start shooting as well, while the spears and general just holds back, waiting for a moment to join the fight (if the enemy routs, the mounted soldiers need backup, or I can attack a unit from behind, etc.).

    When my knights charge, my jenites will most likely be out of ammo, and as the enemy attention is now turned towards the knights, I order the jenites to charge from the opposite flank, which most often causes the last units to rout. If the battle is not over at this point, I attack with my spears, again to divert attention so my mounted units can flank once more), and pull my mounted units back for a second charge.

    If all of this goes perfectly this is what the battlefield looks like about 30 seconds before victory:

    _________________KK__
    __________________KK_
    _JJ__EEEEEEEEEE_____K_
    _JJJ_EEEEEEEEEE________
    _JJ___________________
    ______CSSSC__________
    _______X_X___________
    ________G____________

    No matter what the enemy do (at this point a very weakened enemy thanks to my jenites), a group is ready to charge 'em from behind.

    So far it has been very efficient, and the moors are about to be destroyed.

    I hope this is what the OP is looking for.
    Last edited by caine; January 12, 2007 at 02:12 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    u use a lot of cavalry........u don't have enough infantry to pin the ennemy for a desastrous charge of the cavalry
    but u'r tactic is cool and i will give it a try when i will replay the spain comp....
    good luck with the up keep 5 knight !!! woow u'r a rich boy donate some monney to france so i train more units LOOOL

  4. #4
    Romanos's Avatar Hey
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    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Sent to the battle planning
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    ill do defending a siege: theyre my favourite

    Deployment
    First of all line up your best combat troops in line with any ladders/ siege towers (just one unit does it) as they usually all follow the battering ram through except the ladder/tower carriers. Next place you archers on the walls, trying to place them all to wear the enemy is pointing, and still placing a fewon the outsidesto enable the far towers to still shoot. Make sure to have fire arrow shooting troops near to where siege towers go and able to shoot the bettering ram squad. The rest of your men are then lined up in a open box formation (3 squads, at least 1 spear preferably) with the open side facing the gate/ breach.

    Nasty catapults
    If the enemy uses catapults to attack the walls, you should already have ballista towers which own them , but if not, just move your men away from the targeted area (includign the behind the wall) and then move them back afer the bombardment has finished. If necessary use more combat troops to for another box for a breach, or if you dont have enough men leave out one side of your "box".

    The Battle
    When the enemy attack fire everythign at them, and when they near fire loads of fire arrows into their front squads, and when they get too close at the siege tower. When the enemy tries to take the wall you have your men on teh walls to easily throw them back (you gain a major fighting bonus when on the wall v attackers). If the ram has not been destroyed by your towers and breaks down the gate, it doesnt matter. All their front assault units have been lost morale due to teh fire arrows so that when they charge through, let them onto your "opposite side of the square" and then assault your flanks with your other 2 squads to completely destroy the morale casuign them to rout which will hopefully cause a mass rout (especially as its the general who usually charges first).

    Cav & Siege
    Any cavalry you have can be used to go out of another gate and then come round the back to catch any routing units/ kill any still firing catapults/ or if teh battle is gogn badly to charge into the backs of teh breaches/ gate for a rear charge to break there morale even more , but remember to pull back to make sure they dont "fight to the death". Mop up nay random units which arent running and you win .
    Use siege to fire into the open side of a "two sided box" for added morale damage, or if you have trebuchets you can make them fire over the wall to hit their siege towers or main army .

    Have fun
    Last edited by Skouser; January 12, 2007 at 02:43 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    this is great. please generals: keep them coming!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Quote Originally Posted by shinji86 View Post
    u use a lot of cavalry........u don't have enough infantry to pin the ennemy for a desastrous charge of the cavalry
    True, however I don't need alot of infantry. The enemy pretty much has 3 choises:

    1 - Try to catch my jenites (good luck with that)
    2 - Charge the small group with my general in it
    3 - Attack my knights

    No matter what he does, it will give me the chance for a, as you call it, disastrous charge:

    1 - while chasing my jenites (who will continue to shoot at him with armor piercing javlins) my knigts will charge from behind. While group 3 shoots him in the flank or rear.
    2 - My jenites can shoot him in the back or if they are out of ammo charge him from behind along with my knights. Thats 12 units of cavalry comming in from behind. Granted, not the best of cavalry, but at this early state of the game, it will crush him.
    3 - I will pull my knights back, allowing my jenites to run out of ammo, and then charge from behind. When the jenites charge, he will stop hunting my knights, who will now be able to charge from behind while he fights of my jenites.

    I cannot see the AI beat this tactic, unless he has a much superior army, or alot of horse archers.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    You only need one tactic to consistently beat the AI...have a large cavalry army.

    Place your Heavy Cavalry (C) in the front line and have your Light Cavalry (L) on the Flanks:

    LLLLL CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC LLLLL
    LLLLL CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC LLLLL

    The frontal charge from Heavy Cavalry will break the enemy battle line UNLESS they have pikemen (spearmen won't stop HC) and you can just withdrawl and charge again. Meanwhile, your LC should be flanking the enemy and hitting them from the back. This will cause their units to rout 100% of the time. Even against pikemen, you can just hit them from the back with your LC and they will rout or try and adjust, which will allow you to then counter chrage with your HC.

    The only situation this doesn't take care of would be...sieges. During a siege assault, I like to send heavy infantry up the middle while flanking with Heavy and Light Cavalry.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    i am very interested in what any one and every one has to say about this and would like to learn from every body what they have experienced that works and what doesn't work so well.

    just to share my typical army: when i played england and finished the grand campaign (yes, without cheats) i usually had this for open field:

    1 general
    1-2 ribaults (spelling?)
    1-2 bombards or catapults or trebuches
    2-4 feudal knights or knights templar or mailed knights
    the rest a mix of armored swordsmen, dismounted english knights, or the other heavy infantry (can't remember)

    and this is how i'd form them:

    G - General
    R - Ribaults
    B - Bombards, Catapults, or Trebuches
    C - Calvalry
    I - Heavy Infantry

    ----------R-R-----------
    --------B------B--------
    --IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII---
    ---------CCCC----------
    -----------G------------

    I would weaken and rout as many enemy heavy infantry and calvary as i could with my seige weapons until i ran out of ammunition. those ribaults scare the living daylights out of enemy archers/crossbowmen/light infantry. if the enemy's missle units came out too far from their infantry, then i charged them with my heavy calvary and then retreated after they routed shortly. that might repeat several times. then, i would spread my heavy infantry out a bit over a wide area and try to hit the enemy in kind of a half circle to try to surround them a bit. i would usually also bring half of my calvary to the left and half to the right for flank charges. i would keep my general somewhat close in case i needed the general's bodyguards for extra help. my formation at this time would look like this:

    C------------------enemy----------------------C
    C------------------enemy----------------------C
    -------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------
    ----I---------------------------------------I----
    --------I-------------------------------I--------
    ------------IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII------------
    -------------------------------------------------
    ----------------------G-------------------------

    Then try to get the infantry to charge and hit all at once to cause routs, flank charge with calvary and that's it.

    for making a siege on a city or castle:

    1 General
    1 Seige weapon - usually trebuche or catapult
    two thirds of the rest will be heavy infantry of various sorts
    one thirds of the rest will be heavy calvary

    i try to bust open as many gates or wholes in the wall all around the perimeter of the enemy's city/castle and then split up my army equally or according to what the enemy has at each opening and then all charge at the same time to try to get each of my units to hit each side at the same time. then just close in on the center at the same time to surround them all. surrounding works the best for me when seiging.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    i have to be honest. i'm very disappointed in seeing the lack of posts to this thread. i guess i'm one of the few who loves strategy on the battlefield - as far as if/then situations.

    i really thought there would be more M2TW gamers who put some thought into their army and what strategic steps to take during the battle as it progressed in different situations - or at least ones who are willing to post about it.

    oh well *sigh*

  11. #11

    Icon3 Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    i love battlefeald strategy...
    that is why i love total war games!

    anyway... there is no strategy that will be good in every situation and against each anemy.

    here are my strategy rules and tips for others:
    1) always try to bring more men on the battlefeald then anemy,
    2) try to use the variety of troops (not only horses and knights),
    3) try to use the therain into your advantage,
    4) do not attack where anemy has advantage (as Sun Tzu said - where anemy is strong),
    5) do not just try to defeat the anemy, i tray to win and save as many men as possible,
    6) attack only when you have the motiv and when you see you can gain something from battle, (eg. in grandcompaign try to get cities and castles)
    7) always seek a quick victory (on grandcompaign try to finish war against a nation fast,
    8) when doing a battle, dont exaust your men too much, dont climb a mountain and run if you have time,
    9) break the morale of the anemy troops, that way you wont have to fight them,
    10) dont fight man on man when anemy will fight to death (eg. in center of the city or castle),
    11) use missile against good and hight quality units because they will die just as good as bad quality units and if you can defeat them then you have defeated the anemy army,
    12) use generals you can rely on and that have good moral impact on your troops,
    13) if you can you have to use longer range missile units and cannons, catapults etc. so you force the anemy to advance or retreat when you want,
    14) know yourselve then know your anemy -meaning- if you know what tipes of units you can use against anemy ones you wont have problems. Knowing yourselve also means that you know how good you are in attacking, defending, taking initiative etc. If you know you are not good in attack then dont attack and if you are good in defending then defende.
    15) when playing against human - dont use the same strategy two times. Human can and will remember it so expect he will be prepared for it,
    16) dont underestimate anyone, even AI can prepare a surprise from time to time

    hope this post will open some new ideas and that players that havent thought about strategy behind battleplaning will understand it.
    (also, please sorry about my spelling mistakes - cos i am sure i made a few .... or more)
    Last edited by Sitarus Originalus PM-30+; January 14, 2007 at 02:03 AM.
    Sitarus Originalus Pontifex Maximus -30+
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    also known as original-30+
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    that's awesome. thanks for the post. one i sometimes get lazy on is saving as much men in a battle as possible - i want to just defeat the enemy and not care much about saving some units if not needed.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Here's what is IMO the best set-up for an open field battle:

    ........MMMMMM........
    CC..PPPPPPPPPPP.CC
    CCPPSSSSSSSSPPCC
    .............G.............

    Where:
    P are pikemen
    M are missile units (preferably gunpowder)
    C are heavy and light cavalry (a couple of both on each flank)
    S are swordsmen and,
    G is the general

  14. #14

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Well, since I am rather conservative in my strategies they are hardly worth posting with possible exception of this...

    In sieges if I have cannons or other very long range weapons I place them in sidegates with strongish support force (infantrym cavalry and such) and move them far away to flanks of the enemy. From there I attack enemy with regular cannonballs. This strategy may be distasteful for those who see it as exploiting poor AI but while enemy is trying to hammer my gates I like to hammer them back.

    And when attacking from side you make maximum damage. One cannonball wrecked whole row of general bodyguards. I play to win, not to be fair.

    Ok bit more...

    Basic battle approach is to use spearmen as center of my unit, on flanks on 2 unit deep heavy infantry. Archers take front and when enemy comes retreat to rear and from there to further away to flanks with cavalry.
    One cavalry and general remain in rear as reserve and artillery which has no clear line of fire.

    S = Spear
    H = Heavy
    A = Archers
    C= Cavalry
    B = Artillery

    Start:

    AABBAA
    HSSSSH
    H CCC H

    Battle:

    E = Enemy

    _________EEEEEE
    AA_______EEEEEE________AA
    C_______HHAAAAHH_______C
    ___________BCB

    Envelope:

    AA ___________________AA
    _______C__EEEEEEE__C
    ________HEEEEEEEH
    _________HSSSSH
    ___________BCB

    Something along those lines. Cavalry will rush rear and overrun enemy ranged units, archers, if they have ammo, try to maneuver to rear where they can pelt enemy backs while infantry keeps enemy in place. When enemy breaks my cavalry and archers are in position to cut down the enemy and my reserves and general can charge forth to break rest of enemy morale.
    Last edited by Tiwaz; January 15, 2007 at 03:30 AM.


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  15. #15

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    playing as england, 6 units of longbow in front split in two rows, then 5 units of armoured swordsmen behind. i normally use 3 generals that go around the flanks. i dont really see the value in english knights and such. all kinds of missile troops are no match for the longbow.

  16. #16
    BruceAlmighty's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    open fieild is my favorite and i'm not to good at the others so heres my open field strategy

    i always have 5 hopefully 6 archer units. another 6 infantry, one art and 3 cavalry, 3 spearmen and 1 of specialty units, holy cross or whatever.

    ---------------Back-----------------
    ---------------G--------------------
    SI---I------I-----I----I------I------S (spread out in a line)
    A-----------------------------> spread into a two rank deep line

    once i've got my archers in a line two ranks deep( this works best because they can shoot stright and not in a giant arc) i turn off fire at will and wait for the enemies to get into a range that they won't charge at but that my archers can shoot at almost point blank range. then i let then shoot. in my expiernce archers work best cause they fire the fastest. at this range there as good as muskets and the enemies tend not to charge a wall of shooting arrows

  17. #17
    Elfdude's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    For english open battles I like to put a 2-4 groups of heavy infantry (billmen or dismounted english knights) paired with 4 groups of heavy calvery then the rest of the army filled with longbowmen/sherwood archers (as many sherwood archers as I can make).


    L= Longbowmen
    C= Calvery
    G= General
    S= 2nd general (if there is one)
    I=Infantry

    1 SCC-IIII-CCG
    2---LLLLLLLL- <--- all longbowmen/sherwood archers


    This versitile army is perhaps the simplest to execute with a sure 10kills to 1 death ratio victory, if used properly it's easy to obtain a 50 to 1 victory. Often the archers engage and destroy the enemy before I ever have to worry about my infantry/calvery. When they don't I simply move my infantry forward and circle around my knights then give a full charge into the flanks of my enemy. My archers generally start in front of my infantry a good way until the enemy army is close enough to be an annoyance (I protect sherwood archers at all costs down to the last man, they're very annoying to try and retrain).

    This same army is great for sieges, the 4 heavy infantry armed with ladders easily take the walls, move the archers onto the walls after them and it's like shooting fish in a barrel, proceed to exterminate the enemy with calvary once the gate is opened.

    This same army is great for defending, the archers are all on the walls with the heavy infantry 1 group of heavy infantry is facing the direction that the enemy is approaching, from inside the gate, then 2 groups of calvary are positioned on either side at a distance they can charge from (depending on if they have ladders or rams) the calvary charge into the flanks of any armies who enter or manage to, the rest of the calvary and your general meanwhile are outside hitting the flanks repeatedly with deadly heavy calvary charge, any enemy that takes the bait of the calvary is quickly drawn to the walls and butchered. Often the enemy is a little affraid or I'm not in the mood for an extended battle and I simply march outside with my infantry and calv and longbowmen (Sherwood archers can stay on the walls they can hit the enemies' starting position from it)
    Last edited by Elfdude; January 18, 2007 at 11:52 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    I'm not all that great when it comes to battles.

    I like 1/2 stack armies since for some reason I always lose track of units in a fight otherwise, and lose the battle due to morale issues.

    Mobile Army: I tend to have 4 units of heavy infantry with two units of spear units on the sides. I like deep ranks, since I find that hevy infantry can resist most cavalry charges with a few deep ranks, and if its heavy cav coming, I just intercept with spears, or my own cav. I have two units of heavy cav behind my toops to provide backup to the front line, or to intercept enemy cav. Two more heavy cavalry units, on the flanks march behind the enemy to attack once they're committed to my infantry. Object to take out enemy archers, siege and general units.

    My General is only to provide morale bonuses, and to take out fleeing units.

    results: Tends to work out fine. The heavy infantry soaks up damage, the spearmen decimate cavalry attacking across the front, and my cavalry rapidly destroys any reserves or archers from behind.

    Defending army: I like to have units that are just there to cover bridges, mountain passes etc. That was I can rack up kills, get new combat generals, and protect my cities from attack.

    2 Trebuchets, 4 Spearmen units, 2 heavy swordsmen, 2 archers (long range) and 2 heavy cavalry.

    Spearmen hold the centre, or the bridge. trebuchets fire cows on advancing units. Archers rake advancing units with fire (aiming one unit behind the front line of enemies). Heavy swordsmen are there to hold flanks and to weaken the attacking units.

    Result: Invariably the enemy flees from morale loss, and troop loss. I'm not aiming to wipe them out. The object is to lose the least amount of troops, while gaining the most amount of experience. This is actually the way I get most of my generals, and they're usually well kitted out on combat experience. After three-four battles, all the troops are very experienced, and its rare that they'll have less than 1/2 men left. (I like to have one unit of spearmen to act as resupply).

    Fun army: I have a fun army. Its not a serious one. But something I do when I want to have a laugh. Full stack of peasents, and a general that's annoyed me with getting too many negative values. I've wiped out decent computer ar,mies using this all peasent force, but man, they can break easy. But its sooo much fun swarming an enemy with peasents.

  19. #19
    sabaku_no_gaara's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    With the Turks, I used the same Tactics I used in RTW with Scythia/sarmatia

    I create one grand army for defence purposes at first and go on the offensive with that army later,

    It's a General and about 14 sipahi cavalry


    in Battle I usually place them Like this:
    E= enemy
    S= siphai
    G general



    --------EEEEEEEEEE----
    --------EEEEEEEEEE----



    SSSSS--------------SSSSS
    ---------SSSS------
    -----------G------------


    I make them all in spread formation so they run faster (I think) and so they take less casualty from enemy missile troops


    I imediatly flank the ennemy like this

    ------------SSSS-------------
    S--------------------------S
    S--------EEEEEEEEEE-------S
    S--------EEEEEEEEEE-------S
    -----------------------------
    -----------SSSS------
    -------------G------------

    At this point the enemy is being shot to pieces from all sides, usually they will try to attack your Sipahi with their few cavalry units and the General, As soon as they charge, the few Sipahi they attack run away while shooting, causing the enemy to move away from his army and leaving it unprotected,
    At that point I let the remaining troops charge the enemy from all sides (ALT right click) they shoot whilst charging and are well able to fight in melee after the charge, add to this the devastated enemy morale because they are encircled, being shot, and the General and cavalry being far away they usuall rout and die instantly. After that I send the entire army after the remaining Genral and cavalry who have 3 options left: rout or die or try to rout AND die

    At first you don't lose too many troops and since you are in your homelands it's easy to replenish them and thus creating a verry experienced army, I don't take a full stack of horse archers because when I go on a campaign with them I like to hire mercenaries to assault walls.

    This way you have a fast mobile army that can rampage through enemy lands on a raiding campaign when you need money or wish to weaken an enemy.

    Usually I go and take some settlements and castles nearby quickly, sacking them, destroying every building, and then giving them to my allies as gifts to create buffers, sometimes I don't destroy and give away a captured castle to be able to replenish the Sipahi, when replenished I give it away of course.

    The AI later uses heavilly armoured troops and lots of catapults to counter your Sipahi, Since I don't like losing my own troops, I usually start hiring mounted mercenaries and make them charge the enemy siege equipment (suicide charge but they are mere mercenaries) whilst my troops form their encirclement manouvre, I immediatly make all of my sipahi shoot at the siege crews and only after at the enemy soldiers

  20. #20

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Normally I don't have a distint battle strategy before going into the battle. I try to change my strategy based off what the enemy does, and the units they have, that's why I don't have an all cavalry army, or all infantry, i try to balance it so i can react easily to most situations

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