Poll - Next update, the question of elite units (and a few news)

**Goutlard** · March 20, 2018, 10:06 AM

Good day to you.
I'm not really much of a modder anymore.
I had many projects, cooperating with the Imperial Splendour Team as to help them with the Ottoman Empire was one of them. Though I could do some research, and share extensive information with them, I couldn't do anything more than that and I quite regret it

.

Time is passing, with my studies, and studies matter more than modding. So, I do still mod, but not nearly as much as before. And, I do it at a slower rate.
Still, I am intending on bringing a new update, fix a few bugs, and tweak a few settings.

I will be release 2.6.1 ; for the already planned features please go there : http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?747696-Changelog-and-future-updates

Now for the question :

Elite Units :

I've always felt light elite units aren't up to the cut in Empire : Total War. They are often significantly better in close quarters than regular units, but are hardly any better than regular units at a range, indeed defeating lower quality units but at the cost of many casualties.

So I considered an update where, the top tier elite units (Guard Infantry, Siemenovski Guards, Household Cavalry), the kind of units that were supposed to be the guards of the kings, lords, and a cut above all other should be boosted, as well as their cost increased.

What are your thoughts on that ?

Base Stats :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Explanation :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Reload Rate :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

CONCLUSION :
Line Infantry : Cost - 2120 (260) ; Kill rate 50 kills in 60 seconds.
Guards : Cost - 4470 (390) ; Kill rate 70 kills in 60 seconds

Therefore, guards seem very cost ineffectieve when it comes to ranged combat. They have a better morale, and better melee, but they don't seem up to the cut, I believe, in ranged combat.
What should I do ? Or suggest something here below

Please answer the poll above.

**Demokritos** · March 22, 2018, 04:23 PM

Is there any historical data about the performance differences between regular infantry and elite infantry in any area? If yes, try to emulate that difference as much as possible, provided that the rest of the game mechanics make it sensible. In any case, elite units should be relatively rare in an army (unless the economy, training facilities etc are exceptional), so the recruitment costs etc ought to support this distribution or proportion.

**Goutlard** · March 23, 2018, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Demokritos

Is there any historical data about the performance differences between regular infantry and elite infantry in any area? If yes, try to emulate that difference as much as possible, provided that the rest of the game mechanics make it sensible. In any case, elite units should be relatively rare in an army (unless the economy, training facilities etc are exceptional), so the recruitment costs etc ought to support this distribution or proportion.

Unfortunately most data doesn't say much more than "The average infantryman had an accuracy of estimated 5%". There isn't much said about the accuracy of elite units, of militiamen. So, I did take this number as a baseline, and it works rather well, using the cohesion to make the first volley above 5% (no smoke in front of them, clear line of sight, no fatigue) then the latter at 5%, and slowly getting below.

As for elite units, I consider not increasing their accuracy by any significant value, it shouldn't be above 7.5 to 8%. They were known for reloading significantly faster than regular line infantrymen, and for standing ground better. So, maybe adding 5 accuracy, probably getting their accuracy closer to between 6.75 and 7.25%, but then increasing their reload rate would make for a more accurate representation.

I fully agree with the point : "In any case, elite units should be relatively rare in an army"

That is why I intend on making those units the less cost effective the more you have of them. One or two inspiring regular troops should be great. But, making an entire army of elite troops would require a massive treasury, reforming after losses should be very expensive, and an elite soldiers dies just as easily as a militiaman. A regular army may be easier to rout, but should be much more cost-effective.

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Edit : Costs I consider for the next update :
Line Infantry : Recruitment 2120 - Upkeep 260 (Same as currently)
Guards : Recruitment 5824 - Upkeep 478

I don't want to put unit limits on units that currently don't have any, those feel a bit artificial.

**Goutlard** · April 04, 2018, 07:05 AM

All right I consider the poll finished, not that many votes unfortunately

but the result has been applied to the current update (Ottoman Total Overhaul 2.6.1)

**SharpEyed** · August 14, 2018, 03:32 PM

Good to see you keep going, I wish you best of luck

**ThePioneer097** · April 03, 2021, 04:14 AM

I think having elite units just more cost ineffective but having much higher morale + reload speed is alright. Historically speaking, it was very hard to train soldiers to have elite marksmanship due to the limitations of their arms. Increasing cost with these is also good, because as it stands, elite units are still quite easy to obtain and maintain if you play competently. Perhaps what CAN be changed instead is making light infantry even more deadly as they were specifically trained to target individuals (and were often given rifled muskets over the smooth-bore variants of their line infantry brethren) and even historically had terrific accuracy. Their melee base stats don't need changing (light infantry), but increasing their accuracy exponentially while reducing their reload speed (since rifled muskets got clogged with powder more easily) would make light infantry extremely viable and as valuable as they were in real life.

**Goutlard** · April 03, 2021, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by ThePioneer097

I think having elite units just more cost ineffective but having much higher morale + reload speed is alright. Historically speaking, it was very hard to train soldiers to have elite marksmanship due to the limitations of their arms. Increasing cost with these is also good, because as it stands, elite units are still quite easy to obtain and maintain if you play competently. Perhaps what CAN be changed instead is making light infantry even more deadly as they were specifically trained to target individuals (and were often given rifled muskets over the smooth-bore variants of their line infantry brethren) and even historically had terrific accuracy. Their melee base stats don't need changing (light infantry), but increasing their accuracy exponentially while reducing their reload speed (since rifled muskets got clogged with powder more easily) would make light infantry extremely viable and as valuable as they were in real life.

That is currently the case

.
Elite units have excellent reload rates and good accuracy.

On the other hand, I increased the accuracy of light infantry and riflemen significantly while decreasing their reload rate significantly too. As such, I find that it works really well to include light infantrymen in your formation of line infantry. Line infantry protect them from cavalry and melee ; and light infantry just are excellent shooters.

And for eastern factions you can even add archers to the second rank, firing over your first line. Though arrows aren't very lethal it does give you an edge.