Page 51 of 80 FirstFirst ... 2641424344454647484950515253545556575859606176 ... LastLast
Results 1,001 to 1,020 of 1586

Thread: Free Speech in the UK

  1. #1001
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    12,252

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Can one racially abuse cardboard? How does that work?
    Methinks you are upset not at the content of the video, but are upset for exposing the ridiculous injustices of a legal frame work that punishes transgressive thought.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; November 09, 2018 at 06:43 AM. Reason: Continuity.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

  2. #1002
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Civitate

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    6,602
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    Why on earth would anyone laugh at a bunch of racist scumbags mocking the tragic deaths of 71 people? As someone has already mentioned, they were arrested for their yelling racist troll comments.
    It was a joke. A bad, unfunny joke in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; November 09, 2018 at 06:44 AM. Reason: Continuity.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  3. #1003

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Can one racially abuse cardboard? How does that work?
    So you don't think it's got something to do with what the cardboard represents? But I suppose if we follow your preposterous argument then racist films are OK because you can't racially abuse celluloid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Methinks you are upset not at the content of the video, but are upset for exposing the ridiculous injustices of a legal frame work that punishes transgressive thought.
    The free dumb of speech argument is just code for, "we demand the right to be bigoted, racist trolls".

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    It was a joke. A bad, unfunny joke in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless
    Yeah, it was a joke in the same way that burning crosses were a joke. Stop making excuses for racists.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; November 09, 2018 at 06:47 AM. Reason: Merged.

  4. #1004
    Gandalfus's Avatar le Roi de fer
    Gaming Staff Magistrate

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    29,966

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    I don't find the joke funny but it is a ridiculous premise that anyone should be arrested for a joke made in poor taste. Unless they were publicly threatening people with the same fate I don't see how this can be treated as a crime.

    Yeah, it was a joke in the same way that burning crosses were a joke. Stop making excuses for racists.
    I'm not sure an violently racist, extremist group burning objects publicly to intimidate an ethnic minority can be equated to a few drunkards burning something for humour in what appears to be the privacy of their own home on bonfire night.
    Last edited by Gandalfus; November 08, 2018 at 12:27 PM.

  5. #1005

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfus View Post
    I don't find the joke funny but it is a ridiculous premise that anyone should be arrested for a joke made in poor taste. Unless they were publicly threatening people with the same fate I don't see how this can be treated as a crime.

    I'm not sure an violently racist, extremist group burning objects publicly to intimidate an ethnic minority can be equated to a few drunkards burning something for humour in what appears to be the privacy of their own home on bonfire night.
    If the 'joke' was confined to the privacy of their own home then, as distasteful as it was, I'd agree with you. However, the moment it got shared on social media then it becomes public domain and can be construed as threatening.

  6. #1006
    Gandalfus's Avatar le Roi de fer
    Gaming Staff Magistrate

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    29,966

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    If the 'joke' was confined to the privacy of their own home then, as distasteful as it was, I'd agree with you. However, the moment it got shared on social media then it becomes public domain and can be construed as threatening.
    Shared involuntarily, which doesn’t seem very fair to me. Also I’m unsure as to who this is threatening exactly. Laughing at a tragedy does not infer that you intend to replicate it or wish/plan for harm to be done to others in a similar manner. You wouldn’t see people be arrested on suspicion of terrorism for sharing a crude joke about 9/11, for instance.

  7. #1007
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    12,252

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    So you don't think it's got something to do with what the cardboard represents? But I suppose if we follow your preposterous argument then racist films are OK because you can't racially abuse celluloid.
    Bless your heart. Whatever you do don't google "race play." It might get you arrested in your country.

    The free dumb of speech argument is just code for, "we demand the right to be bigoted, racist trolls".
    Cardboard is brown I suppose. Are you saying colored people are equivalent to cardboard? Isn't that racist and dehumanizing?
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; November 09, 2018 at 06:46 AM. Reason: Continuity.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

  8. #1008
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Civitate

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    6,602
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    If the 'joke' was confined to the privacy of their own home then, as distasteful as it was, I'd agree with you. However, the moment it got shared on social media then it becomes public domain and can be construed as threatening.
    That’s not how it works. They put it up on social media. They didn’t force anyone to watch it. Unless you can prove they’ve done this with intent to alarm or distress they haven’t actually fone anything against the law. Which is a law I disagree with but that’s another conversation...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46106224
    The men have been arrested under section 4a of the Public Order Act 1986 , which covers intentional "harassment, alarm or distress" caused via the use of "threatening, abusive or insulting" words or signs.
    Is this intentional to alarm or distress? Or was the intent something else?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...uspects-sixth/
    sixth person was arrested last night in connection with the burning of an effigy of Grenfell Tower, as detectives raided the property where the "sickening" incident took place.
    Three plain clothes police officers spent two hours at the home of Clifford Smith, 49, and his 19-year-old son, Bobbi Connell, in south east London, before leaving with three bags of evidence.

    ...Scotland Yard said the men had been arrested on suspicion of intentionally causing harassment, alarm or distress under section 4a of the Public Order Act.

    It is thought the searches of the house may have been ordered in an attempt to ascertain whether any hate crime had been committed and whether the offences may have been racially aggravated.

    An aerial view of the smart detached property showed a flag of St George attached to a flagpole, lying yards from an area of charred lawn where the bonfire is thought to have taken place on Saturday night.
    Ffs they’ve raided their home and arrested another person. Let’s just sit back and realise that this at one time deliberately hyperbolic meme about British police has literally come true.



    Also I’m bemused why the Telegraph thinks having the English flag is relevant.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  9. #1009
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    13,185

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Aexedus does you logic work for the KKK. Well officer we burnt the cross on the public street it's not our fault if the N-loving Jews looked at it.... On balance maybe idiots will learn to keep their very poor taste humor (at best ) to themselves. Why not step back a bit - burning an effigy of building fire where 71 people were killed and laughing? And again how many loosing everything, pets, mementos, how many injured? That shows a level of non empathy that I would want to arrest them for. How many wet the bed and brutalize small animals - see how many serial killer check boxes you find.
    Last edited by conon394; November 08, 2018 at 02:45 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  10. #1010
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Civitate

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    6,602
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    If the KKK burn it in the public street then that’s different to private property I would have thought.

    The Supreme Court, including liberal judge Ginsburg says cross burning may or may not be free speech depending on context and intent. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2003/04/08...s-threats.html

    However it’s very much rightfully considered a true threat if that is the case.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  11. #1011

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Bless your heart. Whatever you do don't google "race play." It might get you arrested in your country.



    Cardboard is brown I suppose. Are you saying colored people are equivalent to cardboard? Isn't that racist and dehumanizing? You are desperately close to being a thought criminal if you carry on with this.
    In America you won't get arrested for being a racist troll

    In Britain I don't have to worry about getting shot in a pub along with 11 other people, including an armed copper.

    I'll prefer to live in Britain if it's all the same to you.

  12. #1012
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    12,252

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    In America you won't get arrested for being a racist troll

    In Britain I don't have to worry about getting shot in a pub along with 11 other people, including an armed copper.

    I'll prefer to live in Britain if it's all the same to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by ferrets54
    Quote Originally Posted by conan394
    Aexedus does you logic work for the KKK. Well officer we burnt the cross on the public street it's not our fault if the N-loving Jews looked at it.... On balance maybe idiots will learn to keep their very poor taste humor (at best ) to themselves. Why not step back a bit - burning an effigy of building fire where 71 people were killed and laughing? And again how many loosing everything, pets, mementos, how many injured? That shows a level of non empathy that I would want to arrest them for. How many wet the bed and brutalize small animals - see how many serial killer check boxes you find.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to be advocating institutionalizing people with a dark sense of humor.
    Last edited by Big War Bird; November 08, 2018 at 05:12 PM.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

  13. #1013

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Bless your heart. Whatever you do don't google "race play." It might get you arrested in your country.
    Yes, I can see why porn specifically involving racial slurs would be a big favourite amongst the bigoted incels that make up a large proportion of the alt/far-right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Cardboard is brown I suppose. Are you saying colored people are equivalent to cardboard? Isn't that racist and dehumanizing? You are desperately close to being a thought criminal if you carry on with this.
    I've no idea what your obsession is with cardboard.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; November 09, 2018 at 06:47 AM. Reason: Continuity.

  14. #1014
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    12,252

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    You are the one advocating that the burning of cardboard cuts should be a punishable offense, not me.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

  15. #1015

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    You are the one advocating that the burning of cardboard cuts should be a punishable offense, not me.
    No. No-one has said that. You've concocted this ludicrous non-sequitur about cardboard in order to try and defend your right to be a racist troll.

    Yes, public displays of racism are illegal in the UK (thankfully!), whereas you can be as racist as you like the US. Whilst the alt/far-right can pat themselves on the back that they can chant "The Jews will not replace us" and then wonder why they then have to halfheartedly offer "thoughts and prayers" after a mass-shooting in a synagogue, the UK will be quietly smug that we do not have hardly any of the same race issues. The vast majority of UK citizens value peace and racial harmony above the rights of racist trolls.
    Last edited by TheLeft; November 09, 2018 at 09:51 AM.

  16. #1016
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    12,252

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Just so everyone knows what's being discussed:



    I don't know if that is the whole video or not, but one certainly gets the gist.

    TheLeft can you confirm that you can see this video?

    Curiously I can't find any negative reference to race in any of the comments of the people who were there. Maybe I missed it.

    TheLeft how do you account for this being some sort of racist act when the people in the video do not appear to ever mention race?
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

  17. #1017

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    No. No-one has said that. You've concocted this ludicrous non-sequitur about cardboard in order to try and defend your right to be a racist troll.

    Yes, public displays of racism are illegal in the UK (thankfully!), whereas you can be as racist as you like the US. Whilst the alt/far-right can pat themselves on the back that they can chant "The Jews will not replace us" and then wonder why they then have to halfheartedly offer "thoughts and prayers" after a mass-shooting in a synagogue, the UK will be quietly smug that we do not have hardly any of the same race issues. The vast majority of UK citizens value peace and racial harmony above the rights of racist trolls.
    Because:
    a) There is no correlation between public display of racism (or any other -ism) and violence. We already had a thread about it, with OP failing miserably to prove his orwellian point.
    b) UK is "quietly smug" while being ravaged by crime wave, which is partially due to its Orwellian policies where Britons can't even defend themselves
    c) The video isn't even racist. Even if it was, any rational human being wouldn't see any reason to arrest anyone over it. It is called "Freedom of speech". US has it and for some reason actually racially motivated attacks there are statistically insignificant.

  18. #1018
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Civitate

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    6,602
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    No. No-one has said that. You've concocted this ludicrous non-sequitur about cardboard in order to try and defend your right to be a racist troll.

    Yes, public displays of racism are illegal in the UK (thankfully!), whereas you can be as racist as you like the US. Whilst the alt/far-right can pat themselves on the back that they can chant "The Jews will not replace us" and then wonder why they then have to halfheartedly offer "thoughts and prayers" after a mass-shooting in a synagogue, the UK will be quietly smug that we do not have hardly any of the same race issues. The vast majority of UK citizens value peace and racial harmony above the rights of racist trolls.
    If this is racist, who is being discriminated against on account of their race?
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  19. #1019

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    The involvement of the police is a mistake but not for the predictable freedumb of screech exhortations already being made. These scumbags will be turned into martyrs for said foolish cause and will in all likelihood end up being championed as such by the usual idiots.

    If their identities eventually came out at a local or national level, then the usual societal processes could have come into play. No need whatsoever for the idiot police to get involved.

  20. #1020
    Ferrets54's Avatar Praefectus Praetorio
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    64,800

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    It's one of those things where people with partisan axes to grind are taking opportunity. These men were arrested under the Public Order Act, which of course is pretty old and well-established. In other words the police have reason to believe that their actions could be enough to incite public unrest. Whether you agree with that or not, it's different from any free speech argument. They surrendered to police, they were arrested, they have been released immediately under investigation. It's standard process.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •