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Thread: Free Speech in the UK

  1. #1541

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Again, does that mean we should treat Democrats , muslims and Labor the same way? Because by your logic (action of members are responsibility of the whole group) they are far worse then EDL.
    Spam bollocks.

    None of the above have specific goals to supress or even wipe out whole demographics from Europe and the Americas unlike some of the groups you laud on this forum. Again, what kind of 'civil rights group' would kill 77 kids for no reason?
    Last edited by mongrel; October 28, 2019 at 02:34 AM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
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  2. #1542

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Labor are socialists, an ideology that killed millions. Also party of war criminal Tony Blair.
    Islam - well you can ask any religious minority in muslim-majority country. Not to mention pedophilia, which is something that pedo scum Muhammad tended to promote.
    Democrats - pretty much every Democrat administration in recent history committed war crimes.
    So yeah, facts are not on mongrel's side, as usual.

  3. #1543

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Labor are socialists, an ideology that killed millions. Also party of war criminal Tony Blair.
    Islam - well you can ask any religious minority in muslim-majority country. Not to mention pedophilia, which is something that pedo scum Muhammad tended to promote.
    Democrats - pretty much every Democrat administration in recent history committed war crimes.
    So yeah, facts are not on mongrel's side, as usual.
    Spam spam spam spam. I understand you are posting similar stuff in other threads. I suppose it's like a comfort blanket when the news of the insane lengths white supremacists go to to promote their cultish nonsense is brought to your attention.


    I repeat.
    What part of

    'Don't give a damn for you nonsensical points, fact remains some EDL members were sufficiently indoctrinated to kill people in the name of a daft racist fantasy land.It's bastard child, National Action is thankfully banned, but it took the murder of an MP to prompt that.

    What kind of 'civil rights group' kills 77 kids? 'are you finding difficult?
    Last edited by mongrel; November 03, 2019 at 08:21 AM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  4. #1544

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    If EDL memebers were indoctrinated to kill people, then same can be said about Jim Jones, Carter's friend, who murdered thousands of Americans. Same can be said about hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, who Blair helped murder.
    As it was pointed out before, mongrel, promoting and encouraging de-facto terrorism just to "stick it to the right", is neither wise nor rational strategy. But you be you.

  5. #1545

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    If EDL memebers were indoctrinated to kill people, then same can be said about Jim Jones, Carter's friend, who murdered thousands of Americans. Same can be said about hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, who Blair helped murder.
    As it was pointed out before, mongrel, promoting and encouraging de-facto terrorism just to "stick it to the right", is neither wise nor rational strategy. But you be you.
    Even more spam bollocks. This imaginary world of yours is like a comfort blanket, perhaps to shield your mind from the drivel you write.


    Now at what point will you explain how a bunch of football hooligans, some of whom have graduated to terrorism, led by a convicted fraud, can be described as a 'civil rights' group?
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  6. #1546

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Did you hear that whistling sound that went all the way above? No it is not British police coming to arrest you for posting without loicense. Its the point going above your head.

  7. #1547
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
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    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Even more spam bollocks. ...
    Incidentally, this would also sum up my lasting impression of your 20 or so last posts here...

    And since you are constantly getting it wrong - let me point out that not even Breivik killed 77 kids - he killed 33 people that qualifies as kids (as in below the age of 18). Which means that Breivik killed 77 people - out of which, 33 were kids. Then of course, he also injured some 300+ people on top of all that (including kids). I just thought we should clear that up since you constantly disregard or screw up the actual facts on this note, over and over again.

    Furthermore, the whole "guilt by association"-routine is just a ridiculous concept btw. Even if deployed by you, and even in your (posts) given context. Basically, there are no exceptions to the general stupidity of the concept as such, regardless the context in which it is used. What Breiviks actions has to do with EDL is beyond me - especially since they were flat out rejected and condemned by the leader of that movement at the time (Tommy Robinsson) - this on national TV (BBC). I am also wondering here what the EDL has to do with the concept of freedom of speech in general, since they clearly are not arguing or acting against it. Or for that matter why some seemingly censorship-mongering poster like yourself is repeatedly active here in this thread - again, and again, and again. Posting various ridiculous and outlandish claims left and right, like there is no tomorrow.

    - A

  8. #1548
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
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    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    What’s wrong with calling that Islamophobia?
    Again... It is dishonest. It is misleading. It is unrepresentative. It is inaccurate. It is fake. It is also semantically wrong as well, on top. It deliberately and blatantly fails to make ANY distinctions between critique, prejudice or disapproval (of any kind) against/of Islam. Criticism, prejudice and disapproval are nowhere the same things, nor should it ever be lumped together wrongfully, arbitrarily or undeservedly as is clearly the case with the term "Islamophobia". The implicit claim to cover it all, is clearly there, as no distinctions are made anywhere despite all these things are clearly separate in concept and meaning. It is both unserious and corrupt at the same time.

    The term "phobia" is a concept that implies something are irrational, unnatural, unbalanced, unreasonable, uncontrolled or even hysterical - usually due to fear or aversion of something. Its a condition of some kind. None of these traits are a given or even typical factors in any anti-Islamic views as "Islamophobic" certainly would suggest or imply to us. The term falsely suggests to us that Islam is inherently natural and rational - which it is not. It also falsely suggest to us that any criticisms of the same are also inherently unnatural and irrational as a result. Again, it is not. Basically, it is a lie all over - sold to us as a truth by its promoters. It even outlines and claim an utterly fake condition/symptom were mere ideas could supposedly trigger fear and/or uncontrolled reactions out of thin air - something that have no basis anywhere.

    "Islamophobia" is devised and deployed as a propaganda-tool thru and thru. By using this corrupt term - you are turning yourselves into a useful idiots serving the agenda and goals of the people who promoted this term in the first place. I take it that you (and most others) would want to avoid such a prospect, and are not keen to play any such a part anywhere in public discourse - regardless the topic or angle.


    ***

    If we want to label sheer anti-Islamic views - then we should call it for what it is "anti-Islamic"-views. It is semantically correct, and it does not imply or suggest anything other then what it actually means - opposed or against Islamic stuff in some sense. No misleading coloring, connotations and/or associations. Honest and accurate - as it should be...

    If we want to label anti-Islamic prejudice then we should call it "anti-Islamic"-prejudice - as in call it for what it is. It is semantically correct, and it does not imply or suggest anything other then what it actually means. Prejudice of an anti-Islamic nature. No more, no less... Its honest and accurate - as it should be...

    If we want to label anti-Islamic hatred then we should call it "anti-Islamic"-hatred - as in call it for what it is. It is semantically correct, and it does not imply or suggest anything other then what it actually means. Hatred directed at Islam in some sense, due to some cause or reason. No more, no less. Its honest and accurate - as it should be...

    Works for me.

    - A

  9. #1549

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    Again... It is dishonest. It is misleading. It is unrepresentative. It is inaccurate. It is fake. It is also semantically wrong as well, on top. It deliberately and blatantly fails to make ANY distinctions between critique, prejudice or disapproval (of any kind) against/of Islam. Criticism, prejudice and disapproval are nowhere the same things, nor should it ever be lumped together wrongfully, arbitrarily or undeservedly as is clearly the case with the term "Islamophobia". The implicit claim to cover it all, is clearly there, as no distinctions are made anywhere despite all these things are clearly separate in concept and meaning. It is both unserious and corrupt at the same time.

    The term "phobia" is a concept that implies something are irrational, unnatural, unbalanced, unreasonable, uncontrolled or even hysterical - usually due to fear or aversion of something. Its a condition of some kind. None of these traits are a given or even typical factors in any anti-Islamic views as "Islamophobic" certainly would suggest or imply to us. The term falsely suggests to us that Islam is inherently natural and rational - which it is not. It also falsely suggest to us that any criticisms of the same are also inherently unnatural and irrational as a result. Again, it is not. Basically, it is a lie all over - sold to us as a truth by its promoters. It even outlines and claim an utterly fake condition/symptom were mere ideas could supposedly trigger fear and/or uncontrolled reactions out of thin air - something that have no basis anywhere.

    "Islamophobia" is devised and deployed as a propaganda-tool thru and thru. By using this corrupt term - you are turning yourselves into a useful idiots serving the agenda and goals of the people who promoted this term in the first place. I take it that you (and most others) would want to avoid such a prospect, and are not keen to play any such a part anywhere in public discourse - regardless the topic or angle.


    ***

    If we want to label sheer anti-Islamic views - then we should call it for what it is "anti-Islamic"-views. It is semantically correct, and it does not imply or suggest anything other then what it actually means - opposed or against Islamic stuff in some sense. No misleading coloring, connotations and/or associations. Honest and accurate - as it should be...

    If we want to label anti-Islamic prejudice then we should call it "anti-Islamic"-prejudice - as in call it for what it is. It is semantically correct, and it does not imply or suggest anything other then what it actually means. Prejudice of an anti-Islamic nature. No more, no less... Its honest and accurate - as it should be...

    If we want to label anti-Islamic hatred then we should call it "anti-Islamic"-hatred - as in call it for what it is. It is semantically correct, and it does not imply or suggest anything other then what it actually means. Hatred directed at Islam in some sense, due to some cause or reason. No more, no less. Its honest and accurate - as it should be...

    Works for me.

    - A
    It's not 2006 anymore. The days when privileged racists used to make easy money from pleb racists by encouraging wars against all Arabs (except Saudi) and the removal of civil rights of Muslims in general have long gone. What is left are the pyschopaths promoting some imaginary culture war and the mentally deficient people who act out on such nonsense. Killing people so as to persuade governments to expel Muslims is not criticism of anything, nor 'anti-Islamic'. It's simple murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Did you hear that whistling sound that went all the way above? No it is not British police coming to arrest you for posting without loicense. Its the point going above your head.
    Don't need a licence to suggest that racists bother or even kill people to satisfy their twisted desires .Now at what point will you explain how a bunch of football hooligans, some of whom have graduated to terrorism, led by a convicted fraud, can be described as a 'civil rights' group?


    All this racist bollocks is a distraction from real issues that relate to 'free speech in the UK' , such as why isn't there a wider discussion on the extent to which the Brexit debate and the Conservative Party have been penetrated by Russian interests and the supression of a report on this issue, amongst other things.




    https://twitter.com/BenPBradshaw/sta...327168/photo/1
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; November 12, 2019 at 02:57 AM. Reason: Modified quote restored in its original version
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  10. #1550

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Using a leftist propaganda blog as a source is a good way to abort your argument as propaganda nonsense.

  11. #1551
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
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    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Yet another post here...

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    It's not 2006 anymore. The days when privileged racists used to make easy money from pleb racists by encouraging wars against all Arabs (except Saudi) and the removal of civil rights of Muslims in general have long gone. What is left are the pyschopaths promoting some imaginary culture war and the mentally deficient people who act out on such nonsense. Killing people so as to persuade governments to expel Muslims is not criticism of anything, nor 'anti-Islamic'. It's simple murder.
    I explained the many faults and flaws of the term "Islamophobia" - I did this yet again because I was explicitly asked to do so. That in turn have little (or nothing) to do with any of the things you babble about here. Never mind... Whatever the cause - it is probably too screwed up for my taste anyways....

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    What is left are the pyschopaths promoting some imaginary culture war and the mentally deficient people who act out on such nonsense.
    The bolding and coloring is mine...

    Just because you may have a blatant inability (or reluctance) to recognize as much - does not mean, or change, that it can exist all the same - utterly regardless if you approve of it or not. Even if you (and other leftists) don't want it to exist - will still not somehow make it magically disappear from the world due to wishful thinking. It can (and probably will) exist anyhow - totally regardless what you think of it.

    For some people, the clash of cultures are very, very real. In terms of freedom of speech it is clearly real - otherwise the concept would not be such a matter of contention as it is these days (this thread for instance). Nor would there be any active forces in society that wants to dismantle and limit it - yet it is evident that such forces does exist, and are even gaining momentum these days, much due to the actions of leftist politicians and activists. Further evidence for it can be found amongst the people who publicly voice the "wrong" and "controversial" opinions - who may end up arrested, prosecuted or even denied entry to a country due to mere personal opinions. That is exactly the reality the UK appears to have now. It is exactly the very circumstance that even started this thread in the first place....

    Words like "Islamophobia" would not be devised, deployed and promoted in public discourse if no clash of cultures was happening. The concept of "Hate-speech" would probably not exist either - if it still did, it certainly would not see the wide use and enforcement as is evidently the case, today. The image of post:1496 is another virtual receipt on that you are de facto wrong in your assertion. Because if you were right - none of all that would have happened and existed. At the very least, it would be exceptional if it did happen somehow. As it stands, reality show us that there is nothing exceptional about it. In contrast it is commonplace. It is everyday stuff...

    The problem here - for you (and most other leftists) - is that reality does not match your preferred leftist/PC-narrative of the same. The two are in conflict - and the evidence for reality is overwhelming - while the evidence for that precious PC-narrative of yours is absent. You have taken a position dictated and shaped by wishful thinking, daydreams and propaganda. The clash of cultures is real. The many problems it brings are real. It is not a fairy-tale, no matter how forcefully you declare it to be just that. For all your screaming of "racists" and "retards" this and that - nothing will change that reality. And no matter how tight the regulations and limitations get on supposed "freedom of speech" - them racists and retards will still be around regardless. They will not disappear because of any such restrictions - they will just be camouflaged by it. The only (serious) way to deal with your "omnipresent racists" is to face them - head on, in totally open and free public debate - not by limiting and suppressing the same.


    - A
    --------------------------
    As for the "Tory-report"... It is not a matter of "freedom of speech" but one of (failing) "democracy", "integrity" and
    "transparency". It is essentially irrelevant to the topic at hand here. I Just thought we should clear that up as well.
    Last edited by Axalon; November 14, 2019 at 10:56 AM. Reason: errata...

  12. #1552

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    It is safe to say if your government is legitimate and transparent, you don't need to feel threatened by freedom of speech. Clearly UK elites are afraid that Brits will "talk too much" about why these elite s shouldn't be elites anymore.

  13. #1553

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    Yet another post here...



    I explained the many faults and flaws of the term "Islamophobia" - I did this yet again because I was explicitly asked to do so. That in turn have little (or nothing) to do with any of the things you babble about here. Never mind... Whatever the cause - it is probably too screwed up for my taste anyways....



    The bolding and coloring is mine...

    Just because you may have a blatant inability (or reluctance) to recognize as much - does not mean, or change, that it can exist all the same - utterly regardless if you approve of it or not. Even if you (and other leftists) don't want it to exist - will still not somehow make it magically disappear from the world due to wishful thinking. It can (and probably will) exist anyhow - totally regardless what you think of it.

    For some people, the clash of cultures are very, very real. In terms of freedom of speech it is clearly real - otherwise the concept would not be such a matter of contention as it is these days (this thread for instance). Nor would there be any active forces in society that wants to dismantle and limit it - yet it is evident that such forces does exist, and are even gaining momentum these days, much due to the actions of leftist politicians and activists. Further evidence for it can be found amongst the people who publicly voice the "wrong" and "controversial" opinions - who may end up arrested, prosecuted or even denied entry to a country due to mere personal opinions. That is exactly the reality the UK appears to have now. It is exactly the very circumstance that even started this thread in the first place....

    Words like "Islamophobia" would not be devised, deployed and promoted in public discourse if no clash of cultures was happening. The concept of "Hate-speech" would probably not exist either - if it still did, it certainly would not see the wide use and enforcement as is evidently the case, today. The image of post:1496 is another virtual receipt on that you are de facto wrong in your assertion. Because if you were right - none of all that would have happened and existed. At the very least, it would be exceptional if it did happen somehow. As it stands, reality show us that there is nothing exceptional about it. In contrast it is commonplace. It is everyday stuff...

    The problem here - for you (and most other leftists) - is that reality does not match your preferred leftist/PC-narrative of the same. The two are in conflict - and the evidence for reality is overwhelming - while the evidence for that precious PC-narrative of yours is absent. You have taken a position dictated and shaped by wishful thinking, daydreams and propaganda. The clash of cultures is real. The many problems it brings are real. It is not a fairy-tale, no matter how forcefully you declare it to be just that. For all your screaming of "racists" and "retards" this and that - nothing will change that reality. And no matter how tight the regulations and limitations get on supposed "freedom of speech" - them racists and retards will still be around regardless. They will not disappear because of any such restrictions - they will just be camouflaged by it. The only (serious) way to deal with your "omnipresent racists" is to face them - head on, in totally open and free public debate - not by limiting and suppressing the same.


    - A
    --------------------------
    As for the "Tory-report"... It is not a matter of "freedom of speech" but one of (failing) "democracy", "integrity" and
    "transparency". It is essentially irrelevant to the topic at hand here. I Just thought we should clear that up as well.
    Nothing more pathetic than seeing people indoctrinated enough to believe this imaginary culture war bollocks, or suggesting that racists should be given a hall pass for anti-social or violent activity., when everyone else must obey the law. Except perhaps seeing others act out on the doctrine to go on to harass and murder people , to no purpose.


    Btw it is not a Tory report, it is a cross-party one. The UK public ought to know the extent to which foreign agencies interfere with our political processes. It's far more important than imaginary culture bollocks. But I guess the promotion of racism and apologia for Putin's antics go hand in hand nowadays.
    Last edited by mongrel; November 15, 2019 at 02:32 PM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

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  14. #1554
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
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    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Nothing more pathetic than seeing people indoctrinated enough to believe this imaginary culture war bollocks, or suggesting that racists should be given a hall pass for anti-social or violent activity., when everyone else must obey the law. Except perhaps seeing others act out on the doctrine to go on to harass and murder people , to no purpose.

    Btw it is not a Tory report, it is a cross-party one. The UK public ought to know the extent to which foreign agencies interfere with our political processes. It's far more important than imaginary culture bollocks. But I guess the promotion of racism and apologia for Putin's antics go hand in hand nowadays.
    As expected... Definitely way too screwed up for my taste. Although, it is pretty amusing in its absurdity and hysterical tone.

    As for the report and its surrounding details back and forth... I really don't care... In this thread we deal with "freedom of speech" - not the embarrassing shortcomings of B.Jonsons-administration in terms of that report. It should have been released way back yesterday. All the same, it is another topic, for another thread - the fact is still that it has nothing to do with freedom of speech as such. If you feel strongly about that thing, by all means set up a new and dedicated thread for it. And then you can go raving nuts about it (there), if you like...

    - A

  15. #1555

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    As expected... Definitely way too screwed up for my taste. Although, it is pretty amusing in its absurdity and hysterical tone.

    As for the report and its surrounding details back and forth... I really don't care... In this thread we deal with "freedom of speech" - not the embarrassing shortcomings of B.Jonsons-administration in terms of that report. It should have been released way back yesterday. All the same, it is another topic, for another thread - the fact is still that it has nothing to do with freedom of speech as such. If you feel strongly about that thing, by all means set up a new and dedicated thread for it. And then you can go raving nuts about it (there), if you like...

    - A
    You don't care of a genuine issue of concern for the UK, the supression of knowledge useful to voters, but you feel passionately about the promotion of a racist and sectarian myth. I think we have already got that. As I mentioned, its not 2006 anymore.In general, the only people selling this generic anti-Muslim nonsense nowadays are either grifters sponging off other racists or rabid loons with tendencies to commit arson or murder.
    Last edited by mongrel; November 18, 2019 at 02:34 AM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  16. #1556

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    While "islamophobia" is mainly just a paranoid left-wing fantasy, it is safe to say that the biggest threat comes from pro-terrorist anti-semitic Labor party. And its not due to free speech, but due to foreign funding. For some reason British authorities are hesitant to look into where does terrorist-supporting Labor party receive its funding. Wouldn't be surprised Saudi Arabia is involved.

  17. #1557

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Lies. Convictions include:


    Anders Breivik, EDL member killed 77 kids

    Darren Osborne, radicalised by Tommy Robinson killed a pensioner

    Johnathan Cunningham, making an explosive substance

    Gareth Foster , arson with intent to threaten life

    Terry Gavan, possession of nail bombs and other terrorist material

    Trevor Hannington , assisting terrorism

    Neil McGregor, bomb threats


    James Smith arson
    Using idiot terrorists to justify censorship is a recipe for disaster.

    Why is it OK to censor this far-right organization because of a few idiots but not Islam or any specific sect of Islam? Is it because of the groups size? That seems like an odd standard that isn't particularly all that fair.

  18. #1558

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Unfortunately, tolerance to authoritarianism has become a part of British mentality. I mean British people were ruled by foreigners since 1066. That kinda explains why the semblance of freedoms that they had at the turn of the last century (freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom to own firearms) was given up by them without a fight.

  19. #1559

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Unfortunately, tolerance to authoritarianism has become a part of British mentality. I mean British people were ruled by foreigners since 1066. That kinda explains why the semblance of freedoms that they had at the turn of the last century (freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom to own firearms) was given up by them without a fight.
    If you are going to make stupid and off-topic statements, get them right? "Britain" only came into being with the act of union in 1707 for a start.

    Secondly, if you are going to claim invasions as rule by foreigner, it all started with the Romans in AD43 not 1066.

  20. #1560

    Default Re: Free Speech in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    If you are going to make stupid and off-topic statements, get them right? "Britain" only came into being with the act of union in 1707 for a start.

    Secondly, if you are going to claim invasions as rule by foreigner, it all started with the Romans in AD43 not 1066.
    Semantics. We are talking about a nation that was ruled by foreigners throughout its existence. That can and evidently did impose slave mentality on British population, especially due to negative selection caused by emigration and later world wars. If US government would have tried to pull a fraction of what UK is doing, there'd be ab boogaloo already. But it seems that if some crazy extremist like Corbyn or Choudary would come to power and impose a totalitarian dictatorship, most wouldn't even do anything about it.

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