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Thread: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

  1. #1

    Default Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    ...and in the meantime comes crying to the EU to use its might to bear on Russia-whilst they're still in the Union of course.

    Britain gives Moscow two days to explain alleged use of nerve agent from Russia

    Britain has given Moscow two days to explain the alleged use of a military-grade nerve agent from Russia to poison former double agent Sergei Skripal. PM Theresa May says it is "highly likely" Russia was responsible.
    She alleges the attack was either a direct act by the Russian state on Britain, or the Russian government allowed its nerve agent 'Novichok' to get into the wrong hands. “The government has concluded that it is highly likely that Russia was responsible,” she said.
    "Either this was a direct act by the Russian State against our country, or the Russian government lost control of this potentially catastrophically damaging nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others."
    Read more
    'Circus' at the British Parliament – Russian Foreign Ministry reacts to May's words on Skripal case

    She added that Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, summoned the Russian ambassador to the foreign office on Monday. He said Russia must explain which of the two possible explanations is the correct one. She says the ambassador must reply by the end of Tuesday.
    May says if Russia does not give a "credible response" the government will conclude that the attack involved "unlawful use of force by the Russian state against the United Kingdom." May says if the government does come to that conclusion, she will return to the Commons to outline retaliatory proposals.
    "This attempted murder using a weapons-grade nerve agent in a British town was not just a crime against the Skripals. It was an indiscriminate and reckless act against the United Kingdom, putting the lives of innocent civilians at risk," she added.
    "We will not tolerate such a brazen attempt to murder innocent civilians on our soil."
    Skripal, 66, and his 33-year-old daughter have been in hospital in a critical condition since March 4 when they were found unconscious on a bench outside a shopping center in Salisbury.
    May says the government will be considering whether dignitaries and ministers from the UK will be attending the World Cup. But she did not say anything about the England team boycotting the event, which suggests that that is not on the agenda.

    Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has called for a “robust” dialogue with Russia. "We need to continue seeking a robust dialogue with Russia on all the issues dividing our countries, both domestic and international - rather than simply cutting off contact and simply letting tensions and divisions get worse, and potentially even more dangerous.”
    He caused uproar among Tory MPs by raising the issue of £800,000 donated by Russian oligarchs to the Conservative Party.
    The Prime Minister chaired a National Security Council (NSC) meeting on Monday, which brought together senior ministers with intelligence and security officials.
    Russia has denied any involvement in the attack.


    Meanwhile the Americans have decided to come in and bat for their fellow Anglos as Anglos are prone to do when their backs are up against the wall:

    Ex-spy Skripal poisoning 'clearly came from Russia' & 'will trigger response' – Tillerson

    US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has thrown his support behind UK allegations that Russia is responsible for the poisoning of former double agent Sergei Skripal in the UK, whether directly or through negligence.
    The poisoning is "a really egregious act" and will "certainly trigger a response," Tillerson told reporters on board an aircraft as he was returning to Washington DC from Nigeria. And, although he admits he does not know whether the Russian government had knowledge of the attack, he has agreed with British investigators that Moscow is "likely responsible."

    Tillerson said that the US has “full confidence” in the investigation carried out by the UK authorities and in the preliminary conclusions they have reached on Russia’s alleged complicity in the former spy's death. The US diplomat, however, like the UK PM before him, used the word “appears” when attributing the “attempted murder” to Russia and stopped short of providing any new evidence to support the claims.
    Things are looking tense between the Anglos in the EU and Russia; the bigger question is whether or not the Anglos can convince the rest of the germans and French who control the EU, to agree with them and reject Russia gas via Nordstream 2 in favour of Anglo owned shale oil and gas.

  2. #2
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    the bigger question is whether or not the Anglos can convince the rest of the germans and French who control the EU, to agree with them and reject Russia gas via Nordstream 2 in favour of Anglo owned shale oil and gas.
    Convince? How many ex-German politicians have went off to Russia now? I know he had an ex-Chancellor in his pocket at one time. And even the links to Putin with people in some of Merkel's own governments over the years were worrying.

    I dont think the US is in the business anymore of trying to persuade the countries that actually run the EU into saving themselves, from themselves. The future of that continent exists east of Berlin and the US has good relationships with those countries that will fight Russian influence meddling, and their armed forces, because they still have people old enough to remember what they would be fighting for.

    If the US can stay energy independant and if somehow Europe wanted to finally turn their back on Putin then of course you do that. But not at the expense of staying energy independent. That will be worth more than gold in the coming years, especially as the US tries to deal with the awful trade imbalances. That's what people miss about tariffs. When you are energy and agriculturally independent and have the natural resources to make up for the shortfalls, you can still create leverage in a global economy that is addicted to cheap goods. The US should be.
    The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity

  3. #3

    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmouth View Post
    Convince? How many ex-German politicians have went off to Russia now? I know he had an ex-Chancellor in his pocket at one time. And even the links to Putin with people in some of Merkel's own governments over the years were worrying.

    I dont think the US is in the business anymore of trying to persuade the countries that actually run the EU into saving themselves, from themselves. The future of that continent exists east of Berlin and the US has good relationships with those countries that will fight Russian influence meddling, and their armed forces, because they still have people old enough to remember what they would be fighting for.

    If the US can stay energy independant and if somehow Europe wanted to finally turn their back on Putin then of course you do that. But not at the expense of staying energy independent. That will be worth more than gold in the coming years, especially as the US tries to deal with the awful trade imbalances. That's what people miss about tariffs. When you are energy and agriculturally independent and have the natural resources to make up for the shortfalls, you can still create leverage in a global economy that is addicted to cheap goods. The US should be.
    It is in the US' interest for europe to be the sole captive market of american shale oil and gas, hence why US Anglos have been quite ferocious in attacking russian oil and gas; US shale producers and their lobby groups in Washington stand to gain from this, which is why PM Theresa May has been acting like a good little poodle and barking at the big bad Russkie.

    Now, we've got a badass here, cuz now Theresa May says Russia now has 24 hours to respond.
    Theresa May's ultimatum to Putin: Explain yourself in next 24 hours or face retaliation
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...tes-salisbury/

    The is going to kill us all and start ww3 just cuz she's ing up Brexit; i swear every british female leader has had it in her to start wars that the Tommies have to end up bleeding for.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    Answer what? Russia killed a traitor. It's what Russia does. Most people in this country aren't concerned with Russia. It's bizarre that the British government is willing to get tough with a nuclear armed nation we couldn't beat no matter how hard we tried, but bends over and takes it hard from unelected worms in the EU.

    Seriously, no country in the world has a more pathetic government than Britain.
    Last edited by I_Damian; March 13, 2018 at 04:15 AM.

  5. #5
    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
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    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Damian View Post
    Answer what? Russia killed a traitor. It's what Russia does.
    They did so by using chemical weapons on British soil which posed a potential risk to dozens of British civilians. That is pure and simple terrorism, it may not have been directed at British nationals but it was still a (likely) state-sponsored terror attack on British soil.

    Most people in this country aren't concerned with Russia. It's bizarre that the British government is willing to get tough with a nuclear armed nation we couldn't beat no matter how hard we tried, but bends over and takes it hard from unelected worms in the EU.
    We have the backing of the US in this, and besides, the only thing more pathetic than the current British government would be one which allowed a Russian chemical attack on British soil to go completely unchallenged.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  6. #6

    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    They did so by using chemical weapons on British soil which posed a potential risk to dozens of British civilians. That is pure and simple terrorism, it may not have been directed at British nationals but it was still a (likely) state-sponsored terror attack on British soil.
    come on now, that's a bit rich; it's not like the russians launched VX gas rockets into london, they just tried to kill a traitor with nerve gas, which is arguably better than polonium poisoning. You gotta give the russkies credit for being more humane now in this day and age.
    We have the backing of the US in this, and besides, the only thing more pathetic than the current British government would be one which allowed a Russian chemical attack on British soil to go completely unchallenged.
    i wish the anglos would stop pussyfooting around and do what they've ben wanting to do all along and launch Operation Barbarossa 2.0: The Freezening.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; March 15, 2018 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Intentionally disruptive.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    And what response will that be exactly? The most reasonable thing to do is freeze parts of Russian trade with UK. The UK-Russian trade volume is not particularly significant and stopping all trade is impractical. A minor sanction will lower Russian exports by maybe a billion dollars at best and that will take time to even register. Still, considering it was a brazen attack on British soil it seems like a proportional response.

  8. #8
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    .. if only we poor Europeans had someone like Zar Vladimir! Instead we have just comedians, puppets and indecent clowns like Theresa May!
    Last edited by Katsumoto; March 13, 2018 at 08:06 AM. Reason: promoting illegal activities

  9. #9
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    It does sound like a diversion (or oil-tied, as mentioned by others), imo. Britain is hardly in a position to give ultimatums to Russia, at any rate. And if May means "The US gives you an ultimatum", then she should be less of a clown and say that ^^

    PS: When will Corbyn, also a soviet spy, be questioned?
    Last edited by Kyriakos; March 13, 2018 at 07:29 AM.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    I like the way in which the traitor has been executed! .. if only we poor Europeans had someone like Zar Vladimir! Instead we have just comedians, puppets and indecent clowns like Theresa May!
    That's precisely it.

    Russia sees the west as weak for this reason, and for other reaosns, such as our people no longer feel any pride in their history or their country. We're dead nations and naturally others will take advantage of us in our dying, defenceless last years.
    Last edited by Gigantus; March 13, 2018 at 08:01 AM. Reason: off topic\wrong thread

  11. #11

    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Damian View Post
    Answer what? Russia killed a traitor. It's what Russia does. Most people in this country aren't concerned with Russia. It's bizarre that the British government is willing to get tough with a nuclear armed nation we couldn't beat no matter how hard we tried, but bends over and takes it hard from unelected worms in the EU.

    Seriously, no country in the world has a more pathetic government than Britain.
    Deploying chemical or radioactive agents on foreign soil is an act of war. Even more so if the local citizens or other third parties are harmed in the process.
    If they really want to dispose of alleged traitors like that, they should at least have the guts to use a cruise missile or some other kind of hardware.

    Also, this isn't the first time, nor the second, that Russian expats, and British citizens associated with them, have been murdered in Britain.
    But I guess the son and daughter of this spy really had it coming, being someone's children and all that.
    Last edited by athanaric; March 13, 2018 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Apparently I'm not allowed to insult a Fascist government.

  12. #12
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    ^I agree that there have been some very problematic actions by Russia (eg the Crimea thing). The problem is that the overall environment allowed for them. Even in the case of Ukraine, the Eu was doing its own thing there. This doesn't excuse Russia for pretty much ruining Ukraine, but it can be said that Russia is hardly the sole bad side there as well. As usual, the losing side is that of the local country (Ukraine).

    That said, May being a clown isn't altered by the above situation. May (and current Britain, with Boris and co) cannot logically present itself as a force in global affairs. What sanctions would Britain alone force on Russia? So, again, if there is US backing,May should stop trying to present herself as relevant.
    Re the deaths in Britain: i haven't followed the story. Obviously i am against killing-by-espionage as well. Again, though, no one can claim that Russia is the only country doing so. US even drone-kills families-with-terrorist(or alleged one). It is sick, but it happens from more sides than just Russia, and yes, it is to be condemned, but not by a clown like May who is equally ridiculous and with a policy which doesn't help anyone.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  13. #13
    antaeus's Avatar Whataboutery
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    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Meanwhile the Americans have decided to come in and bat for their fellow Anglos as Anglos are prone to do when their backs are up against the wall:
    Aaaand there goes Tillerson. Should have known not to criticise Putin.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  14. #14

    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    The Empire has struck back!http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-43402524
    London: Britain will expel 23 Russian diplomats, in the biggest such sanction in more than three decades, in response to the attempted murder of ex Russian spy Sergei Skripal.
    May also announced that no British ministers – or the royal family – would attend this year’s FIFA World Cup in Russia.


    Furthermore, the UK has gone crying like a little girl to the UNSC: https://www.rt.com/uk/421257-spy-attack-salisbury-unsc/

    When is this going to stop? What's next? Russian FSB starts assassinating UK politicians?

  15. #15
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    What an anticlimactic response UK... I'm embarrassed as an ally to be associated with you guys. If anyone ever questioned the UK being a world power, this should answer that. They're at best Italy on the World Stage.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  16. #16
    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
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    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    come on now, that's a bit rich; it's not like the russians launched VX gas rockets into london, they just tried to kill a traitor with nerve gas, which is arguably better than polonium poisoning. You gotta give the russkies credit for being more humane now in this day and age.
    I don't think you quite understand the gravity of the situation: not including the intended target, two other totally innocent people came very close to being killed in this attack, one of whom was a British police officer. The city of Salisbury is on lockdown with the army patrolling the streets, and residents are being told to burn their clothes if they were in the vicinity of the restaurant where the incident is thought to have taken place. This isn't just some poison that you slip into someone's food, it's a chemical weapon designed for use in war.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; March 15, 2018 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Contunuity.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  17. #17

    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    I don't think you quite understand the gravity of the situation: not including the intended target, two other totally innocent people came very close to being killed in this attack, one of whom was a British police officer. The city of Salisbury is on lockdown with the army patrolling the streets, and residents are being told to burn their clothes if they were in the vicinity of the restaurant where the incident is thought to have taken place. This isn't just some poison that you slip into someone's food, it's a chemical weapon designed for use in war.
    Like I said, if Russia or any other state actor is behind it, it's an act of war. That's why normal countries don't do this kind of thing.
    It's quite possible that a third party, some kind of agent provocateur, committed this (in fact it reads more like the plot of a Mission Impossible or James Bond movie than like serious news), counting on the fact that Russian "traitors" have been murdered abroad before, but in that case, the Russian government is a victim of its own success, because everyone believes them to be capable of things like this.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    What an anticlimactic response UK... I'm embarrassed as an ally to be associated with you guys. If anyone ever questioned the UK being a world power, this should answer that. They're at best Italy on the World Stage.
    What does that make Italy?

  19. #19
    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
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    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Like I said, if Russia or any other state actor is behind it, it's an act of war.
    I don't know if I'd call it an act of war per se, it was afterall a political assassination attempt gone wrong. The real problem here is the weapon used. Polonium 210 is not a weapon, it's a byproduct of the nuclear power industry (also used in some industrial applications). It was used on Litvinenko partly for intimidation factor and partly because it's easy to carry around a deadly dose with no risk to the carrier and it leaves little to no trace of the attack until several days after it has been ingested and even then is hard to detect. Novichok, on the other hand, was developed specifically as a weapon of war, and is among the deadliest substances mankind has ever produced. Unlike Polonium it's highly dangerous to anyone who comes near it, anyone using it would know it posed a very high risk of collateral damage. Given that this potential became a reality when two people who were not the intended target were affected in the Salisbury attack, I think the term that is being used, 'warlike act' rather than 'act of war', is appropriate. Although of course we must also acknowledge the general deterioration in relations between NATO and Russia since the Litvinenko assassination in 2006: it's likely that had this same attack happened back then instead, it would not have provoked as much of a reaction. Russia in 2006 had not yet even invaded Georgia, let alone invaded Ukraine and Syria and launched a massive campaign of cyberattacks and weaponised propaganda aimed at influencing elections in Western countries.

    It's quite possible that a third party, some kind of agent provocateur, committed this (in fact it reads more like the plot of a Mission Impossible or James Bond movie than like serious news), counting on the fact that Russian "traitors" have been murdered abroad before, but in that case, the Russian government is a victim of its own success, because everyone believes them to be capable of things like this.
    Novichok-type agents are only used by the Russian government. They have only ever been manufactured in one laboratory by the Russian military, and have been used before in an attack on Russian soil perpetrated by the Russian government. There's no way anybody could have got hold of Novichok without express permission from the Russian military leadership. This is the opinion of no less than the guy who was in charge of the Novichok nerve agent series, who has since defected to the US.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; March 15, 2018 at 01:23 PM. Reason: Continuity.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  20. #20
    Pavlik the Rus's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Britain Demands Russia Answer For Poisoning Spy

    Russia killed useless person? Really? For what reason? He sold everything he had. Years ago. To avenge? I remind you that he was in hands of security services for years, and them let him go.
    And i must remind that there is a presumption of inocence as a part of basical human rights. May i ask - why it does not work when something happens with Russia? Any ideas?
    Julia is a citizen of RF. Why british goverement refused to allow ordinary diplomatic assistance to her?
    Hillarious:
    "Russia, you are guilt I demand responce"
    "GB, we are not guilty. Stop demanding, we are not your colony. Let's start investigation"
    "What?! We said your guilty and that's it! We will give you nothing"
    And so on...

    Guys, where is your democrasy, where is your respect to others? Where all of that, when you mention Russia? All this cyber attacks, fake news, intervention to the elections, now this - no one still have not confirmed nothing! But crying at each corner. Do you understand what may be caused by this?

    Everything is compleetly clear in this case. We will have elections soon, brits still have huuuuge butthurt about footbal championship, T. May must show to their citizens that she is a stronk Leader.
    And yes, what is this kind of weapon, that can not kill, just put man in coma? Overdose of sleeping pills?
    We had one criminal asasination with chemical weapon. In 1995 or 1996. One scientist created at home and sold to bandits his version of poison. Victim (Bank owner) died. His secretary died. Pataloganatomist, who work with bankeer body, also died. This was home made weapon, not serial production.

    My personal opinion - i disapointed. Really. And i am speaking not about sences of the citizen of my country, western countries allready gave me and many people like me, full picture who they are and what kind of relations is possible. Nothing new here. I disapointed because i exptected real harm counter measures. I want see that all this members of modern team in power, who sits in center of Moscow, got ban for all their assets and funds in GB. Previous teams would be cool also. Because words "I will go to live in London" is a some kind of bandit's and mafia's anthem. They robe here and went to GB to live. GB gladly accept them all.
    Nothing had happened, similar to this. Only "we will expell 23 diplomats..."

    One more thing.
    As i can see that we have chemical weapon experts here, Cool.
    Reality - "Novichok" is mentioned only by two scientists, who left RF in the past. One of them wrote a book. Each book must have cool story, otherwise you will not sold this. Autor allready stated - "You can find formula only in my book"
    Ok, even it is exists - It was produced in late Soviet era. Production facility was in Caracalpacia, Uzbekistan. US miltary and intelegence services work there, it is an open information.
    Same scenario as before with Litvinenko. Useless murder with long and hard way to kill, using "specific" russian substance (you still can buy polonium freely - be my guest http://www.smart-elements.com/Po first link that i found in seconds) but create expected media noise and political devidents.
    Last edited by Pavlik the Rus; March 15, 2018 at 12:18 AM.

    Under patronage of respectable MARCVS
    Надо чаще встречаться
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58644

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