The "BLAME MUSLIMS" Thread

[Miraj]

Hey Everybody!

Since there are so many threads dedicated towards exposing the Global Worldwide Islamic Conspiracy (TM) and the Evils of Islam(C) I've decided we need to be a bit more efficient and consolidate these ideas into one unifying thread.

The purpose of this thread is to do what lots of people enjoy doing the most:

1) Take complicated issues and twist the facts so as to portray the negative realities as directly linked to either the evil nature of Islam or the malicious nature of Muslims

2) Take absolutely unrelated and irrelevant stories and use convuluted and twisted logic to blame Islam or Muslims for negative events.

Try it everyone! Its the new thing!

Okay, I'll go first!

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Bangladesh poll delay emergency
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6252397.stm

Bangladesh has been recently been suffering from massive amounts of political turmoil related to disputes between the two main parties over the legitimacy of coming elections.

Here's how I blame Islam and Muslims:
1) Bangladesh is 90% Muslim
2) Muslims are thus engaging in political violence with each other
3) Muslims follow Islam
4) THEREFORE ISLAM IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CURRENT POLITICAL PROBLEMS IN BANGLADESH!!!!

ISLAM BLAMED!

Yaaaaay!
--------------------------

See! Wasn't that so easy children!

Now go ahead, try it for yourself. Use fallacious logic to turn absolutely unrelated or complicated political issues as a ammunition to attack and blame Islam and Muslims for all the problems in the world. Its super duper fun!

[Kscott]

Well extremist muslims are causing severe problems in the middle east. Poor Ethiopia gets a jihaid called on them for simply being Christian.

Now obviously the answer is the extremist are the problem, not Islam itself. Im not entirely convinced though. Islamic, or perhaps Arabic is more fitting, culture seems to be more prone to extremism.

One can easily point to medieval Christianity, and I would agree with you. It was highly prone to extremism. However, the Christian religion has really transformed itself over the ages and seems less prone to extremism now, though obviously it still exists in Christianity as well.

Anyways you can down play the problem by using Ad hominem, but I think we need to look deeper. Perhaps its really an economic problem? I don't know but there seems to be a correlation with Islam and extremism.

Are all Muslims extremists? Of course not. Infact a majority aren't, but the amount of muslim extremist at the moment are proportionally far more serious than the other religions. Again it could be other factors, it might not be.

And I know youll say the extremists dont follow what the Koran actually says, but hey religions are dynamic. What the Koran seems to say one century will be different the next. It happens with all religions. Obvioulsy the Islam of the day, whether it be following the Koran properly or not, has a higher correlation with extremism.

Lets stop trying to avoid it, it is like avoiding the fact that Medieval Christianity was prone to extremism. Instead lets try to fix the problem

[Miraj]

Well extremist muslims are causing severe problems in the middle east. Poor Ethiopia gets a jihaid called on them for simply being Christian.

YES! Thats the kind of material I'm looking for!

-> Take a complicated issue such as the long running hostility between Somalis/Eritreans and Ethiopians and say absolutely baseless and fabricated things like "Poor Ethiopia gets a jihaid called on them for simply being Christian" <-

Good Job KScott! You win FIRST PRIZE!

I especially like the fact that you didn't cite any facts or reasonable line of logic and totally neglected political context in formulating your utterly ridiculous statement above!

Awsome. Keep up the good work guys. Lets not give these Muslamic Savages a rest.

Let's BLAMES MUSLIMS!

**thunderous applause, yelps of 'booya!' and 'yeeehaw!'**

[Last Roman]

YES! Thats the kind of material I'm looking for!

-> Take a complicated issue such as the long running hostility between Somalis/Eritreans and Ethiopians and say absolutely baseless and fabricated things like "Poor Ethiopia gets a jihaid called on them for simply being Christian" <-

Good Job KScott! You win FIRST PRIZE!

I especially like the fact that you didn't cite any facts or reasonable line of logic and totally neglected political context in formulating your utterly ridiculous statement above!

Awsome. Keep up the good work guys. Lets not give these Muslamic Savages a rest.

Let's BLAMES MUSLIMS!

**thunderous applause, yelps of 'booya!' and 'yeeehaw!'**

for someone who complains about people taking words and twisting them, you seem to be doing a pretty good job yourself (he aknolwedged that most Muslims aren't extremists and that the problem most likely is not Islam itself) And for a self proclaimed securalist, you seem to get pretty up in arms when someone insults Islam. Are you only a securalist when it fits you?

[Miraj]

for someone who complains about people taking words and twisting them, you seem to be doing a pretty good job yourself (he aknolwedged that most Muslims aren't extremists and that the problem most likely is not Islam itself) And for a self proclaimed securalist, you seem to get pretty up in arms when someone insults Islam. Are you only a securalist when it fits you?

I twisted nothing. He made an utterly ridiculous statement that over-simplified a long running and complicated issue taking place in the Horn of Africa and I called him out on it. No twisting there.

I'm a secularist. That doesn't mean I am divorced from my community who bears the brunt of the newly annointed and accept race-hate of everything and anything that is remotely Muslim. Criticizing Islam is not the problem, its why someones criticizes it. Intentions are everything.

[Last Roman]

I twisted nothing. He made an utterly ridiculous statement that over-simplified a long running and complicated issue taking place in the Horn of Africa and I called him out on it. No twisting there.

kscott clearly said that it is a minority of Muslims who are the problem, yet you make you make him out to be a racist against all Muslims. If that's not twisting, I don't know what is.

[Kscott]

I twisted nothing. He made an utterly ridiculous statement that over-simplified a long running and complicated issue taking place in the Horn of Africa and I called him out on it. No twisting there.

Al-queda declared a Jihad on Ethiopia prior to the war. Im sure I could have written a four page essay on it, but really I gave all that was needed. You just nitpicked on a minor point while side-stepping the major ones.

I'm a secularist. That doesn't mean I am divorced from my community who bears the brunt of the newly annointed and accept race-hate of everything and anything that is remotely Muslim. Criticizing Islam is not the problem, its why someones criticizes it. Intentions are everything.

Well you reacted harshly to my criticism when it was not based on any racist or religious hatred.

I said:

Poor Ethiopia gets a jihaid called on them for simply being Christian.

Where did I blame Somalia. I knew it was a non Somolian organization, but didnt know which one. As Erik pointed out it was AL-Queda. How is that twisting facts? I didnt say the Somolian-Ethopian conflict is because Ethiopia is Christian. But the Jihaid against them IS for that reason.

[Kscott]

-> Take a complicated issue such as the long running hostility between Somalis/Eritreans and Ethiopians and say absolutely baseless and fabricated things like "Poor Ethiopia gets a jihaid called on them for simply being Christian"

Imams not from Somolia declared a holy war agains Ethiopia. Are you saying thats not extremism?

Awsome. Keep up the good work guys. Lets not give these Muslamic Savages a rest. Let's BLAMES MUSLIMS!

Give me a break, I said most muslims aren't extremist, but their is a higher correlation between devout muslims and extremists than there is with any other present day religion.

You really don't seem to be able to handle the fact that maybe Islam needs major reform. Reform that occurred in Christianity centuries ago, though still hasnt reached complete fruitation. Reform that Buddhism seemingly never really needed, though of course it has its extremists as well. Though they be very few comparatively.

But never mind, religion is a touchy subject. Any criticism of Islam makes me a bigot. Perhaps I shouldn't criticize medieval Christianity. The crusaders were just a fanatical sect, there was no essential problem with the way people were interpreting religion. The inquisition? Can't blame old views of Christianity of that.

Again im not saying any religion is inherently more correlated to extremists. But the interpretation of that religion at a certain time can certainly be more prone to violence, as witnessed by Medieval Christianity.

But whatver, feel free to continue with Ad hominem, it gives much credibility to your position

Al Qaida called for Jihad, yes.
But AFAIK not the Somalian Islamic Courts themselves.

thanks thats what I was refering to, I was a little shady on details.

**thunderous applause, yelps of 'booya!' and 'yeeehaw!'**

yeehaw... If I was a sensitive type I'd think you were being racists, or predjuiced, or stereotypical or however you want to define it. Again more ad hominem. I think I might have to cede the argument on the account that im a bigoted Southerner.

[Last Roman]

Give me a break, I said most muslims aren't extremist, but their is a higher correlation between devout muslims and extremists than there is with any other present day religion.

You really don't seem to be able to handle the fact that maybe Islam needs major reform. Reform that occurred in Christianity centuries ago, though still hasnt reached complete fruitation. Reform that Buddhism seemingly never really needed, though of course it has its extremists as well. Though they be very few comparatively.

But never mind, religion is a touchy subject. Any criticism of Islam makes me a bigot. Perhaps I shouldn't criticize medieval Christianity. The crusaders were just a fanatical sect, there was no essential problem with the way people were interpreting religion. The inquisition? Can't blame old views of Christianity of that.

Again im not saying any religion is inherently more correlated to extremists. But the interpretation of that religion at a certain time can certainly be more prone to violence, as witnessed by Medieval Christianity.

But whatver, feel free to continue with Ad hominem, it gives much credibility to your position

but you see, if he gets angered, that makes him right

[Miraj]

Imams not from Somolia declared a holy war agains Ethiopia. Are you saying thats not extremism?


Give me a break, I said most muslims aren't extremist, but their is a higher correlation between devout muslims and extremists than there is with any other present day religion.

You really don't seem to be able to handle the fact that maybe Islam needs major reform. Reform that occurred in Christianity centuries ago, though still hasnt reached complete fruitation. Reform that Buddhism seemingly never really needed, though of course it has its extremists as well. Though they be very few comparatively.

But never mind, religion is a touchy subject. Any criticism of Islam makes me a bigot. Perhaps I shouldn't criticize medieval Christianity. The crusaders were just a fanatical sect, there was no essential problem with the way people were interpreting religion. The inquisition? Can't blame old views of Christianity of that.

Again im not saying any religion is inherently more correlated to extremists. But the interpretation of that religion at a certain time can certainly be more prone to violence, as witnessed by Medieval Christianity.

But whatver, feel free to continue with Ad hominem, it gives much credibility to your position

Now your just backtracking and redifining what you said. Either that or your contradicting yourself.

You said Somalis declared a Jihad on Ethiopia solely because Ethiopia is Christian. You never moderated this statement. A statement that is pure BS.

It like saying America attacked Iraq solely because they wanted to kill Muslims. No one on these forums would take such a statement seriously but when the same idiotic accusations are made against Muslims it suddenly becomes tenable.

So stop shifting topics and Islamic reform or what not. Thats not what I was talking about. Of course Islam is flawed, of course it needs reforms.

But I was talking about one ridiculous statement of yours which pretty much capture the essense of the "Blame Islam/Muslims" movement.

[AngryTitusPullo]

One can easily point to medieval Christianity, and I would agree with you. It was highly prone to extremism. However, the Christian religion has really transformed itself over the ages and seems less prone to extremism now, though obviously it still exists in Christianity as well.

It's basically the product of secularization and the separation between church and states. It got nothing to do with Christianity transforming itself actually except by the fact that Christianity itself lost it's temporal power and had to play second fiddle to the states (in the form of western democracy etc).

[RusskiSoldat]

Well extremist muslims are causing severe problems in the middle east. Poor Ethiopia gets a jihaid called on them for simply being Christian.

Fighting against Islamist Somalia might actually have had something to do with a jihad being called on them.

[Kscott]

Fighting against Islamist Somalia might actually have had something to do with a jihad being called on them.

The war was after some Imams called a Jihad. At least thats how I was informed.

[Erik]

The war was after some Imams called a Jihad. At least thats how I was informed.

Al Qaida called for Jihad, yes.
But AFAIK not the Somalian Islamic Courts themselves.

But then, all Muslims look and sound the same anyways and they all have bad breath because of all the garlic they consume, so fighting Muslims is always good.

ps: somebody farted in my elevator today, and I'm going to assume that it was a Muslim because they make up almost half of the population around here.

[Miraj]

Al Qaida called for Jihad, yes.
But AFAIK not the Somalian Islamic Courts themselves.

But then, all Muslims look and sound the same anyways and they all have bad breath because of all the garlic they consume, so fighting Muslims is always good.

ps: somebody farted in my elevator today, and I'm going to assume that it was a Muslim because they make up almost half of the population around here.

Very good. Very good. I like this.

FACT -> Muslims eat garlic and maybe bathe in it
FACT -> Muslims stink and are responsible for all unsanitary conditions in Europe

[Aristophanes]

Very good. Very good. I like this.

FACT -> Muslims eat garlic and maybe bathe in it
FACT -> Muslims stink and are responsible for all unsanitary conditions in Europe

Since when did the French and Muslims become interchangeable?

[Captain Arrrgh!]

The war was after some Imams called a Jihad. At least thats how I was informed.

But under true Islamic law, Jihad can only be waged in defense of fellow Muslims.

[jaklei]

But under true Islamic law, Jihad can only be waged in defense of fellow Muslims.

You be not talkin' like a pirate!


You can not possible tell us that the bible is better than the qouran when you can find both erotic/pornoghrapic stories/letters and war/raiding chronicle/letters in the bible. If you dont trust me then...


The fascism in the bible is obvious for the true reader and the pacisfism is the most known (altough not the largest) part of it.
And foreign hostility is also present in the bible:
The Preacher chapter 61, vers 6-9 :
"On your walls, jerusalem, i shall put guardians.
They shall never be quiet, neither day nor night.
And you who call upon the lord, be not stricken by peace!
And you giveth him no peace, not untill the day that the glory of jerusalem is restored
and all the world sings to its praise.
The lord woveth on is right fist, at his strong arm:
Never more shall i grant food to your foes, foreigners shall'nt drink your wine, your wine made out of labour."

And then it goes on and on about how you should eat your own food and only share it with your friends and not your foes or newly met friends and foreigners. And thoose who do that would have the priviledge to eat in gods garden, gods heaven and with gods blessing.
And then in chapter 63 of the preacher the bible preaches genocide. Not exactly better than the quoran

[boofhead]

You be not talkin' like a pirate!


You can not possible tell us that the bible is better than the qouran when you can find both erotic/pornoghrapic stories/letters and war/raiding chronicle/letters in the bible. If you dont trust me then...


The fascism in the bible is obvious for the true reader and the pacisfism is the most known (altough not the largest) part of it.
And foreign hostility is also present in the bible:
The Preacher chapter 61, vers 6-9 :
"On your walls, jerusalem, i shall put guardians.
They shall never be quiet, neither day nor night.
And you who call upon the lord, be not stricken by peace!
And you giveth him no peace, not untill the day that the glory of jerusalem is restored
and all the world sings to its praise.
The lord woveth on is right fist, at his strong arm:
Never more shall i grant food to your foes, foreigners shall'nt drink your wine, your wine made out of labour."

And then it goes on and on about how you should eat your own food and only share it with your friends and not your foes or newly met friends and foreigners. And thoose who do that would have the priviledge to eat in gods garden, gods heaven and with gods blessing.
And then in chapter 63 of the preacher the bible preaches genocide. Not exactly better than the quoran

Jaklei if you believe those verses have anything to do with Christians, then you are wrong. The Old Testament is a Jewish text, it only serves Christians in so far as it demonstrates how God prepared mankind for Fulfillment.

Also, as with everything claimed by muslims whenever a violent verse in the Koran is mentioned, I am sure the above quoted verse could be justified by Jews using contemporary political/social situations.

And BTW, what book is "Preacher"?

[DariusEG]

The funny thing about this is:

There are many Muslims who also do the same thing to non-Muslims, specifically, Atheists and Christians, and occasionally Jews. There is no Muslim on this board I can say, but I've ran across such types on other boards. And it's always more than one.

This is all just childish, IMO.