(Old Thread) Shield decrease melee battle performance?

[warblah]

Got this from totalwar.org
http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=77217

This sucks

[Ticu]

Ok... That is really too bad. Is this perhaps a glitch that was unnoticed by CA?

[danes]

WOW shocking post.

i can see the logic behind having shields become a liability in melee "some of the time" since they are heavy and would compromise agility.. but they couldnt possibly be that much of a liability! and they DO have their natural uses in melee so if that thread's op is right.. then the new fighting calculation system is flawed

[Wheem]

Yuck.

This would explain why Peasants do so incredibly well against Town Militia and Spear Militia, though. The +6 defense from having a shield should swing things decidedly in favor of the militia units; but go head to head with a unit of peasants; it's generally a very close fight in a straight 1v1.

[blinkboy182]

I hope this is just one big mistake. But then again...I'm not sure.

[danes]

This would explain why Peasants do so incredibly well against Town Militia and Spear Militia, though. The +6 defense from having a shield should swing things decidedly in favor of the militia units; but go head to head with a unit of peasants; it's generally a very close fight in a straight 1v1.

u could be very right wheem, i didnt pay much attention to it before but peasants do incredibly better agains the militia units than they did in rtw.:hmmm:

[Lubeck]

Wow...just wow. Another major flaw in what is supposed to be a great game.

Does CA even know about this?

[Cato the Younger]

This is seriously depressing.

[Ippius]

There is some logic that shields decrease melee battle performance though. They are bulky, they are heavy, and its not extremely easy to kill someone with a shield bash. However the significance of the decrease is too much making it quite flawed.

[Lubeck]

There is some logic that shields decrease melee battle performance though. They are bulky, they are heavy, and its not extremely easy to kill someone with a shield bash. However the significance of the decrease is too much making it quite flawed.

There is some logic to shields increasing melee battle performance. It is called blocking a blow. Shields have more functions than just stopping arrows and using as a weapon.

[danes]

Ippus, man, u just posted what i said again..

[Oldgamer]

There is some logic to shields increasing melee battle performance. It is called blocking a blow. Shields have more functions than just stopping arrows and using as a weapon.

Exactly. As a re-enactor and as a fight director, I can tell you for a fact that a man in melee combat without a shield in combat against someone with a shield is at a significant disadvantage.

In fact, I've tested this repeatedly over the years with other re-enactors. Almost always, I get in what would be called a "killing" or a "maiming" blow immediately after my opponent has struck a blow against my shield. He is now reeling from the shock of the blow, which travels the length of his arm, into his shoulder. He also has to recover his stance in order to strike again. As he tries to recover, I strike, and he has nothing but his armor to protect him. Even a parry, on his part, is extremely awkward and weak, and results in a solid hit.

[Hellenic Hoplite]

There is some logic that shields decrease melee battle performance though. They are bulky, they are heavy, and its not extremely easy to kill someone with a shield bash. However the significance of the decrease is too much making it quite flawed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSMzoVRQgqU

Of course these guys are the absolute worthlesness in how well they can fight, their technique is almost non-existent and it's also reenactment, which means they don't really try to kill each other, however even in crappy reenactments like this, the significance of carrying a shield is easily illustrated.

PS: The battle of Grunwald was a cavalry battle, by the way, with a minimum number of footmen. It was basically the Polish heavy cavalry charging the German infantry, routing it, while at the same time the German heavy cavalry charging the light allied cavalry of the Polish, routing it, then the two heavy cavalries clashing between them, the Polish cavalry prevailing mainly due to numbers. But oh well...

[Burncycle]

...

I was going to play tonight

I think I'll get depressed and eat icecream instead

[Hotspur]

...

I was going to play tonight

I think I'll get depressed and eat icecream instead

Ice cream makes everything all better. Until you run out of ice cream at least.

[Zhou]

Nice to know that something was funky. Never could figure out why spear units were so useless against peasants/pilgrims.

[progenitor]

Another reason to not play M2TW until 1.2... that is, if they fix it.

[eventhorizen]

Wow shocking find, but looking on the bright side atleast now everyone knows exactly what is broken, so now CA or we customers can start working on fixing it.

Dont be surprised to see detailed bugs coming out. Vanilla combat is really really screwy, and this is probably just the first (well second or third) of a long line of actuall bugged mechanics to be found.

lolololol what is the big deal!!!???

i'm not arguing or anything, to me it just isnt a big deal lmao...

Well how would you like it in a FPS if everytime you fired a gun, you lost Hitpoints?

[Axe-Battler]

lolololol what is the big deal!!!???

i'm not arguing or anything, to me it just isnt a big deal lmao...

[Premaximum]

lolololol what is the big deal!!!???

i'm not arguing or anything, to me it just isnt a big deal lmao...

I'm not sure how you think this isn't a big deal. Shields do the exact opposite of what they're intended to do. Instead of making soldiers -more- resilient, they make them -less- so.

Definitely think that this needs to be high on CA's priority list. I've been getting Units with shields regularly for my defensive line...I guess it's no wonder I've been getting my ass handed to me.