[Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes) - included in the SSHIP 098

[j.a.luna]

Hi Kostic take a look in this youtuber webpage for evolution of armours and weapons in diiferents periods, s.X- XV

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...RM_MFhhV8ccPC9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwH3...8ccPC9&index=2

the language of the speaker i think is russian or polish, i dont know but the pictures are awesome!!!


For other hand, how go your work in units? More improvements? you have already added Nikkosaiz units?( Sorry for my insistence but you know that also i love his units hehe).
If you can show us some pictures of you recent work please!

[kostic]

Thank you for these links to these excellent videos and very much in the subject of this thread !!!


Unfortunately I did not have time to integrate the units of Nikossaiz and I wanted to make some improvements before.


Here are my additions for the version expected to be released these days:



The Syrian auxiliaries were visually far too armed for their statistics. I did them again by showing their allegiance to Christendom.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

These Turkish archers mainly benefit from texture modifications compared to the KCC 096 beta model.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I reworked the Turkopoles with a greater diversity of weapons and slight improvements to the costume

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I must say that I am rather proud of this unit of armed pilgrims that I managed to diversify to the maximum

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There will now be a difference between the 12th and 13th century cross sergeants.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Same goes for the Crusader Knights

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Here is the pilgrim militia of the south ... different from the crusader pilgrims of the north, they replace the old religious fanatics who were not really believable hidtorically

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In my concern for perfection, I remade the "spear militia" units. These are for ug2 enhancement model

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Finally I end my exhibition with the nobles crusaders on foot from the 12th century.
Come to think of it, instead of my "data XII" and "data XIII" folders, I would be more precise by naming them "data 1132-1240" and "data 1240-1340" ...

[Nemesis2345]

Aye looks terrific ! Good job , Kostic. Looks like ill have to update the unit cards as well one of these days !!

[j.a.luna]

Great work Kostic! Your work is pretty important also for the mod( the visual unit part) i love see historical units in sship and also in battles.

About Nikkosaiz units is a pity that you still dont have time for include them but i imagine that in the future we will see in sship when you have more free time.

About your future plans, what it is? You plan to modify also berber/andalusian units? More muslims units or maybe now more eastern units as slavs or "eastern"spear militia( polish and hungarian spear militia still have vainilla models and ugly unhistorical shields)

For other hand, i think that sship team should take a look in new factions units rosters for the future releases because so you don't do double the work (make a unit and then delete it because it no longer exists in a faction's new unit roster)

Thank for your hard work and i hope play with your new units soon...

[kostic]

As part of my work on integrating Nikossaiz units for ERE, I am happy that I managed to correct the issues of missing descriptions and inappropriate info images.


What is still missing with the ERE faction are more visual variations for unit upgrades.
For this purpose, I started by adding a base Contaratoi unit, before the improved unit in ug1. I will probably make a unit in ug2 at the same time.


I also changed the Bulgarian Brigands unit and changed its name to Bulgarian mercenaries.
In the process, I will also redo the Kurdsih footmen unit ...


Some pictures :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Contaratoi

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Contaratoi back

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Bulgarian mercenaries

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Bulgarian mercenaries back

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[j.a.luna]

Good work my friend! I love to see that also you improve still more the Nikkosaiz units and others!
Yes, bulgarian need a remake and it is great! It would be great make more news units for regional units(mercenaries and regional troops) as bulgarians, swiss/flemish, andalusians, swedish... Similar to armenians/ berbers that have 4 types of these regional units.

For other hand, it would be great that you continue make new upgrades for different ERE units as toxotes, psiloi, pronoia, varangian guard, peltastas and others.
Iirc Nikkosaiz only made upgrades for skoutatoi units and latinikons...

And please, as personal request if you have time,i would like see almogávares units with a historical unit models and their famous weapon called "coltell" and javelins.
You know that when you need my help, i support you for remake the iberians factions.
Here the information about "almogávares" or almughavars.
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...N-amp-CASTILLE

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...-ROSTERS/page2


+Rep for your hard and good work!

[Millan-Astray]

Do you have plans to touch the scottish units?

I really admire your work, it's one of the reasons I play this mod, unhistorical units really break my immersion.

[kostic]

Do you have plans to touch the scottish units?

It is true that the Scottish units are not very historical nor very credible ...
If I still have the passion with me, I will end up taking care of it too, but I am thinking of going first to the side of Spain where a colleague has been waiting for my modifications for a long time !

[Kilgore Trout]

Beautiful work. Thank you Kostic!

[hazman232]

Hi Kostic, is it possible to give Hungary the updated spear militia looks? just like Serbia

[kostic]

Hi Kostic, is it possible to give Hungary the updated spear militia looks? just like Serbia

I will watch this. I note it.

[j.a.luna]

I will watch this. I note it.

Yes, i agree with this, i think that they had vainilla models, is possible make them more "eastern/slavic" appearance( also for polish) than other spear militas as western europe( france,spain, italy...)

[kostic]

Kurdish footmen before and after:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

BEFORE

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

AFTER

[AlberdoBalsam]

Thank you for all your good ideas, images and advice.

To make variations according to the factions would be good, but I try to find a tip allowing to use the same model 3D at first. In fact, my model has 2 versions: one with crowned helmet, one with the crown placed on the camail (which does not seem absurd provided that the crown also plays a protective role).


This version is provisional and incomplete, but you get the idea ...

The golden chainmail is perhaps abusive for most western kings in the 12th and 13th centuries. Maybe justified for factions from the east ?


For the helmet, I have here an interesting model of a French helmet dated 1120 who could perhaps reconcile everyone :

You should stop using this as a source. The helmet that is indicated by number 2 is not dated to 1120. Its from William Clito effigy that is dated 1170 to 1190.
[IMG]blob:https://imgur.com/5d83b0c7-c0d6-4b1f-ac80-da784417ffaa[/IMG]

You guys should tell j.a.luna to stop posting stuff like this. He is misleading you with wrong information.

[AlberdoBalsam]

Wrong link. Here is the effigy. 1170s to 1190s, not 1120s.

[kostic]

Wrong link. Here is the effigy. 1170s to 1190s, not 1120s.

Astonishing. Guillaume de Cliton died in 1128 ...
After some research, this drawing was indeed made in the 19th century by a certain M. lebour and I have no idea of ​​his references to achieve it.


Having said that the game begins in 1132, the historical accuracy of the costumes must be simplified as the game engine does not allow small details to be changed over the years.
This helmet has not been made yet, but it seems quite valid to equip a general in the 12th century part in random mode.


Please recommend a book with correct illustrations for this time. To start from the representations of the middle-ages seems to me too imprecise to help me to be historically correct.
I bought some books "Osprey" as well as on "Historic'one Editions" to complete my documentation of which most of the reconstructions are in fact dated before 2000 ...

[j.a.luna]

You should stop using this as a source. The helmet that is indicated by number 2 is not dated to 1120. Its from William Clito effigy that is dated 1170 to 1190.
[IMG]blob:https://imgur.com/5d83b0c7-c0d6-4b1f-ac80-da784417ffaa[/IMG]

You guys should tell j.a.luna to stop posting stuff like this. He is misleading you with wrong information.

@AlberdoBalsam welcome to this forum and sship mod, I want to tell you that you are wrong in your words saying that my images / information are wrong and confuse the developers ... As Kostic said, the game begins in the year 1132 and the different illustrations are valid to create 12th century units with different variations in their armor and helmets, in this case the "Norman style", a very common style in 11th-12th century Europe and even at the beginning of the 13th century with modifications to closed helmets.

The developers of sship mod well know that I always want to help with my proposals and illustrations so I do not like your comment towards me.

Kostic has some links that I provided, both to websites and YouTube images and videos, that are valuable to him in creating his historical units. And of course the credit goes to Kostic for improving the units by making the sship mod more historical and enjoyable.

[AlberdoBalsam]

Astonishing. Guillaume de Cliton died in 1128 ...
After some research, this drawing was indeed made in the 19th century by a certain M. lebour and I have no idea of ​​his references to achieve it.


Having said that the game begins in 1132, the historical accuracy of the costumes must be simplified as the game engine does not allow small details to be changed over the years.
This helmet has not been made yet, but it seems quite valid to equip a general in the 12th century part in random mode.


Please recommend a book with correct illustrations for this time. To start from the representations of the middle-ages seems to me too imprecise to help me to be historically correct.
I bought some books "Osprey" as well as on "Historic'one Editions" to complete my documentation of which most of the reconstructions are in fact dated before 2000 ...

That is correct, William Clito died in 1128. Drawing was made in 19th cerntury. The effigy itself it dated 1170-1190 ad, a lot of time passed after William's death, when the effigy was made.

I understand that the game must be simplified, not fully historical. Just saying that the dating of the helmet is 1170-1190, not 1120. If it was written in your book, it is wrong and you should check their references.

I do NOT recommend any illustration books to represent middle ages. They often have artistic liberties and if you are not enlightened on matters, you could be fooled. Same happened with you, because you thought the dating tas 1120, while its about 50 years, if not more later. I would advice to stay away from Osprey books. There are good and bad illustrations in them and you can't take any chances, if you don't know which are which.
Just for a test. Here is an image from Osprey, showing late 14th century armor. See anything wrong with it?

[AlberdoBalsam]

@AlberdoBalsam welcome to this forum and sship mod, I want to tell you that you are wrong in your words saying that my images / information are wrong and confuse the developers ... As Kostic said, the game begins in the year 1132 and the different illustrations are valid to create 12th century units with different variations in their armor and helmets, in this case the "Norman style", a very common style in 11th-12th century Europe and even at the beginning of the 13th century with modifications to closed helmets.

The developers of sship mod well know that I always want to help with my proposals and illustrations so I do not like your comment towards me.

Kostic has some links that I provided, both to websites and YouTube images and videos, that are valuable to him in creating his historical units. And of course the credit goes to Kostic for improving the units by making the sship mod more historical and enjoyable.

I think you should go and study normans for a little, so that you stop using false interpretations of normans, wargaming miniatures and Grbasic art as a reference. I will go through some of the mistakes that are done here by the artists in the image of your norman "sources" i posted. First guy seems to have an aventail, should be more obvious that he has a coif and a helmet on it. What is the square patch of mail on his chest? It should be higher, almost near his neck. See the third image? That square mail patch is actually a ventail, the guy is wearing it up.
Look how awkward would the ventail look, if he tried to protect his face with it, it does not even come close to the neck.

Your second norman source is rooted in some wargaming miniatures. Seriously? Is this why half of the kite hields in game have metal rims? This is almost hilarious. Real kite shields used rawhide for rims sometimes, not metal. Look at the Bayeux tapestry, man.


Third image is not bad, but quilted linen padding is used. Gambesons or aketons were rare at that time. Imaged of quilted armor underneath mail for padding come much later. Here are some period images, which show no gambeson underneath mail. Thick wool tunics were used for padding, not gambesons or aketons.


Fourth image is generally ok, but the last one is funny.
Did you post this as a joke or something? If not, i really hope you stop posting such images to Kostic, because you are misleading him to make norman models with larp armor.

[kostic]

@Alberdo: Frankly my boy, you seriously lack modesty in exposing us medieval images with your unique interpretation.


- The famous "ventail" on the Norman hauberts are subject to interpretations and some historians have assumed that it was used to thread the hauberk because it is indeed often placed too low on the original drawings. So these illustrations are not necessarily wrong.


- At first glance, I do not see any notorious error on this Osprey board. Bacinets are helmets that were worn throughout the second half of the 14th century and the variety of these is such that it is difficult to be exhaustive on a single illustration board. I am curious to know what you found as errors ...


- The observation of the images of the Middle Ages only allows to have a vague idea of ​​the costumes. The drawings of the time had very little descriptive purpose or ambition to convey a realistic vision. The bayeux tapestry is one example. How to know with these naive drawings of what their armor was really made? Your "Look at the Bayeux tapestry, man." is ridiculous.
The last interpretation of the contemporary artist is undoubtedly questionable, but absolutely not laughable in my opinion.
There is no absolute truth about medieval costumes, just cross interpretations of texts, ancient illustrations and archaeological finds.


I think you are trying to impress us with your knowledge when you don't know much. Besides, you are not even in a position to advise me the slightest book on the subject. This is fun!