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Thread: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

  1. #141
    Eldgrimr's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    Looking great, kostic! A small suggestion though, the actual Templars didn't wear large crosses on their chests, but small ones over their hearts. Something more like this:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  2. #142
    kostic's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    There are many representations of Templars carrying a large red cross on their garment and a smaller cross on the left shoulder of their mantle (or cape). Hence my way of representing them.
    But on learning more, it seems that the Knights Templar wore white, while non-knights (squires, sergeants ...) wore brown. A small red cross was placed on their left shoulder ...

    Thank you for this info I will correct a little my Templars !

  3. #143
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    I thought they wore grey. Brown was for the hospitaller non-knights
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, of the Imperial House of Hader


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  4. #144
    Eldgrimr's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    The Templar Knights wore white surcoats with a red cross over the heart, and also wore a white mantle with a red cross (hence the cross on the shoulder). Templar sergeants (non-knights) wore black surcoats with a red cross in front (can't find any sources mentioning where on the chest the crosses were worn, perhaps heart as well) and black or brown mantles (colours varied).
    The shape of the cross varied, but it was usually a form of cross patée.
    I've seen a few medieval depictions of Templars with a large cross in the centre, but that would go against what Pope Eugenius commanded (cross over heart). Perhaps they were also worn at times (sloppiness?).
    The shields and banners varied, it seems like most illustrations depict black and white shapes with or without red crosses. Here are some examples:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    Let me know if anything else is needed! I can't model or texture at all, but historical knowledge is my expertise.
    Last edited by Eldgrimr; October 13, 2019 at 09:56 AM.

  5. #145
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    Thank you for your knowledge and your examples! I am just now reviewing all that part of the chivalrous orders whose present representation does not suit me. If you have any information to give me concerning the hospitallers and those of Saint Lazare I am a taker!

  6. #146
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    From the official temlar regalia applied during that period (from this source):

    The Temple Rule of 1129 AD from Saint Bernard is evidence that the white robes from the first few years of the original Knights Templar were quickly ruled out. The original text (Rule 68) indicates that within less than 10 years after the Order was created, white was eliminated, and Templar regalia was ordered to be a natural “burell” shade of light brown [3]. That rule explained a major disadvantage of white robes as habits of the monks in Templar monasteries, as the specific reason why sand color must be used:

    It was ordered that they “should not have white habits, from which custom great harm used to come to the house, for in the regions… false brothers… and others who said they were brothers of the Temple used to be sworn in, while they were of the world. They brought so much shame to us and harm to the Order of Knighthood that even their squires boasted of it, for this reason numerous scandals arose. Therefore let them assiduously be given black robes, but if these cannot be found, they should be given what is available in that province, or what is the least expensive, that is burell.

    This historical fact proves that the idea of white robes was specifically condemned by the early Knights Templar, precisely because they appealed to the “pride” (the “ego”) of the unworthy seeking self-aggrandizement. This establishes that white robes were considered to be contrary to the genuine core beliefs and principles of the original Templar Order. Therefore, real and authentic Templar Knights in fact wore light brown uniforms.

    One explanation reveals why the famous early Templar robes were superficially perceived and commonly described as being “white”: In the extremely bright direct sunlight of the Middle East, the light brown “sand” color of Templar uniforms only appeared to be “white”, as an optical illusion. This subjective visual perception was enhanced by the sharp contrast between the sun-glared beige and any accessories or surroundings, making the robes seem more “white” by comparison.
    Another explanation reveals how white robes with red crosses were popularized as supposedly “Templar” regalia, by confusion with the uniforms of medieval England: The Templar King Richard the Lionheart used white with straight-lined red crosses (different from the Templar cross-paté), although this officially represented Knights of the British Crown, and not the Templar Order. King Richard I of England ca. 1189 AD adopted tunics and banners with the flag of Saint George, a red cross on white [4] [5], which later became the flag of England under King Edward I ca. 1277 AD [6].
    The historical fact of Templar robes being light brown is further confirmed by the regalia of the Eastern European Teutonic Knights, established in 1190 AD as a direct branch of the founding Western European Knights Templar [7]. The Teutonic robes are well-known to have been “brown”. This is because they were simply a darker shade of the Templar sand-brown, in order to better adapt to the dirt of woodlands and marshlands as field conditions instead of desert sand.

    No Red Cross
    – The trademark tunic and cloak bearing the red cross was not established until 1146 AD, by order of Pope Eugenius, 28 years after the Order was created. While distinctive, and later of great fame due to worldwide renown of the Knights Templar, historians point out that this regalia proved to be a major strategic disadvantage, as “the red cross would also serve as a bulls-eye for the enemies’ arrows and lances.” That failed experiment of wearing large red crosses was abolished shortly thereafter. [8]
    Because the controlling rule for Templar regalia was a requirement of practical utility in the field, the fact of this historical lesson learned establishes that wearing regalia with large crosses cannot be a part of any authentic regalia of the genuine Knights Templar tradition.

    Notes:
    [3] Henri de Curzon, La Règle du Temple, La Société de L’Histoire de France, Paris (1886), in Librairie Renouard, Rule 68.
    [4] The Journal of the Manchester Geographical Society (1891), Volumes 7-8, at p.139.
    [5] W.G. Perrin, British Flags: Their Early History and Their Development, Cambridge University Press (1922), p.15.
    [6] W.G. Perrin, British Flags: Their Early History and Their Development, Cambridge University Press (1922), p.37.
    [7] The Vatican, The Catholic Encyclopedia (1912), The Encyclopedia Press, New York (1913), Volume 14, “Teutonic Order”, p.541.
    [8] Frank Sanello, The Knights Templars: God’s Warriors, the Devil’s Bankers, Taylor Trade Publishing, Oxford (2003), pp.14-15.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, of the Imperial House of Hader


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  7. #147
    kostic's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    If I understood correctly (google translation for me), the popular image of the Templar in white coat and red cross is far from reality ...
    I think that we will have to interpret all these sources and make a personal choice: first, to diversify colors and crosses. Try a light sand color instead of white. Realizing a later version with more discreet crosses (heart side) could perhaps illustrate the evolution between the 12th and 13th century ...

  8. #148
    Eldgrimr's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    Perhaps a large red cross was originally meant, but was later replaced by a small red cross on the heart?
    It's very possible that instead of pure white, it was more of sand-coloured (close to white) that was issued to the Templars, since it's the closest to white that's still practical.
    Please ignore the enormous inaccuracies with this surcoat and armour, I just wanted to demonstrate the colour I was imagining.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Edit: I just found something really good concerning this. A very contemporary 12th century depiction of Templar Knights (and perhaps a sergeant?). It shows them wearing a cross over the heart, and they have different colours on their surcoats, one white (perhaps sand-colour), one light-brown.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by Eldgrimr; October 14, 2019 at 12:14 PM.

  9. #149
    kostic's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    Thank you for your research !(@Lifth and @Eldgrimr) I will use it to make my next units!

  10. #150
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    @Kostic

    Are you considering make the shaft of the spear and the body of the units a little fatter? Or give them spears from rushinski models? Will look even better.

  11. #151
    kostic's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    I have already fattened most of the bodies in my units compared to Sandy's. For the spears, I seem to have swollen some ... my work is still in progress and unfortunately can not be exhaustive given the impressive number of units. I still note your remarks and will take them into account.

  12. #152
    kostic's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    I did a test battle with my remodeling of the units of the temple and the hospital ... these are the first level of the units, which corresponds to the date of the beginning of the campaign 1132.

    Knights templar
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Templar crossbowmen
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    templar squires
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Templar foot knights
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Holy sepulcher
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Foot hospitaller
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Templar sergeants
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Knights hospitaller
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


  13. #153
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    Very good! The time that I will try your mod is closing Keep it up!

  14. #154

    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    Wooow kostic, great work!!! They are amazing and historical unit models!
    But for other hand, and it is due to sship unit roster, templars have so much units in comparison with the rest of knights orders, maybe could "delete" knight foot templar ( knights with axes) and templar crossbowmen ,and make new units for the rest of orders, as hospitalers sergeants(spearmen) teutonic sergeants and santiago sergeants due all knights orders have knights and sergeants at least...
    THE MORE YOU SWEAT NOW,
    THE LESS YOU BLEED IN BATTLE!!!



    Sign the petition to remove hardcoded limits for M2TW

  15. #155

    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    epic work!

  16. #156

    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    Hey kostic I recently installed your mod to my SSHIP. The game opens fine and all, but when I pick any faction and the game starts to load it stays loading for a long time, and then crashes. The system log tells me something about the memory not loading the textures.


    system.txt

  17. #157
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    This may help

    CTD on startup vRAM
    Q: When you start the mod you get a black screen and the mod CTDs. The logs say you lack enough vRAM.

    A: There are two possible causes for this.

    1) A texture for a campaign (strategy) map unit cannot be found. This can be resolved by checking that the all the textures mentioned in the 'data\descr_model_strat.txt' file are in the 'data\models_strat\textures'.

    2) The cas file's texture is not present in an entry in the 'data\descr_model_strat.txt' file (such as 'northern_general' or 'islamic_merchant'). Each cas file has a texture assigned to it and if the cas file cannot find this texture in the entry using the cas file it will crash. There is no easy way to determine which tga the cas file wants, though Errant Knight's cas to m3sd program does tell you which tga file the cas file uses when you convert a cas file to an m3sd file and vice verse.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, of the Imperial House of Hader


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  18. #158
    kostic's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    Hello Pyres Δt Varanasi, did you do this before copying my files? :

    1 - WARNING !!! BEFORE INSTALLING DELETE THE TEXTURES FOLDER LOCATED HERE: .../mods/SS6.3/data/models_strat/textures
    If you don't, you will not have access to the strategic campaign !!!

  19. #159

    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    This may help
    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by kostic View Post
    Hello Pyres Δt Varanasi, did you do this before copying my files? :

    1 - WARNING !!! BEFORE INSTALLING DELETE THE TEXTURES FOLDER LOCATED HERE: .../mods/SS6.3/data/models_strat/textures
    If you don't, you will not have access to the strategic campaign !!!
    Yeah, I did before installing. I'll ẗry doing a clean install again and see if I did something wrong.

  20. #160

    Default Re: [Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes)

    It worked perfectly now. Thank you both.

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