[Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes) - included in the SSHIP 098

[Lifthrasir]

Would it be possible to have a different horse model just for the king and his bodyguards? I doubt ...

I think you can by setting another mount and giving it only for BG. Then, the EDU will have to be updated accordingly and the battle_models.modeldb as well. That means also new textures and possibly new mesh
In theory, that should do

[kostic]

This is already the case ! The BG do not have the same horses as the other knights. The subject was to give to the king's BGs, and only the king's, equipment different from other BG.

[bitterhowl]

What sky textures do you use? I'd like to see these in my Westeros submod!

[Lifthrasir]

This is already the case ! The BG do not have the same horses as the other knights. The subject was to give to the king's BGs, and only the king's, equipment different from other BG.

Not possible that way unfortunately.
The only way is to do as previously mentionned and to set a specific unit for kings with only 1 man. Not really a good option imo

[kostic]

@bitterhowl : I do not know. These sky textures are those used by SSHIP, I have not modified them.


@ Lifth : Indeed, assigning an entire unit just for 1 character would be really questionable, whether he is king or not. I hadn't even thought about this option.

[Tripledot]

Genoese Crossbowmen are lacking in models for late-game armor upgrades. They wear heavy mail/coat of plates when they should be wearing brigandines/cuirasses (armor upgrades 2/3?).

[kostic]

I'm not there yet ! And then if you re-read the title of my sub-mod, you will see that it is not the priority objective to remake late units but rather to try to remake credible 12th-13th century units for this period of medium- age.

[j.a.luna]

Kostic is possible also make a unique model for the Pope? Seeing your current work about kings i noticed that current sship have the Pope strat map models as a normal general and the old vainilla stainless steel had the figure of a Pope. ( ecclesiastical clothes) ,so do you think that is a good idea about a mix model? With ecclesiastical clothes but also wear body armour( if he went to battles he would wear armour but with holy father distinctions).

[Lifthrasir]

Another fancy idea?
As far as I know, the only Pope recorded leading an army was Julius II (Pope from 1503 to 1513), nicknamed the "warrior pope". He was pope during the italian wars. However, it doesn't seem that he really took the role of general.
Kostic does what he wants for his submod but that won't be included in SSHIP for sure

[j.a.luna]

Another fancy idea?
As far as I know, the only Pope recorded leading an army was Julius II (Pope from 1503 to 1513), nicknamed the "warrior pope". He was pope during the italian wars. However, it doesn't seem that he really took the role of general.
Kostic does what he wants for his submod but that won't be included in SSHIP for sure

It is not a fancy idea, only a "possible or general idea", I like what is historically correct as much as you do but only for map and battles.
What should the Pope look like? the same as the rest of the generals or kings, or with a unique model for him as the vanilla stainless steel had?

[Lifthrasir]

In addition to my previous post you seem unable to understand, the pope in game is elected among the bishops and not among generals. Why the hell should he look like a mix of both?
So yes, it is a fancy idea/proposal

[j.a.luna]

In addition to my previous post you seem unable to understand, the pope in game is elected among the bishops and not among generals. Why the hell should he look like a mix of both?
So yes, it is a fancy idea/proposal

Yes i know Lifth, but in the current game the strat map model of the Pope is the SAME that for a normal general and also in the battle map.
So my question is, how should the "figure" of Pope look like in sship? Maybe you have clear your ideas about this, but as Kostic is making new models for kings and heirs, maybe is possible make a historical model for the Pope valid both for the map and for battles( i dont know what is the best option, for this i proposed a mix of clothes). The same for republics factions, that I think they should not wear a crown like a king of a monarchy.

Interesant report/article about "war clerics" and the war for the church.

http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity...._churchwar.htm

I say something similar to this. ( Body armour but with a papal unique distinction)





Not this, as fancy units...

[Lifthrasir]

That's because MWY made the Papal States as playable faction without consulting the rest of the team. Actually, the Papal States shouldn't be playable and won't probably be anymore soon. As such, the Pope shouldn't appear as a general.
And war clerics aren't the pope and I'm wondering how accurate is that site you're referring to

So, again, such model for the pope won't be used in SSHIP. I really can't see why it's so difficult to understand.

[j.a.luna]

That's because MWY made the Papal States as playable faction without consulting the rest of the team. Actually, the Papal States shouldn't be playable and won't probably be anymore soon. As such, the Pope shouldn't appear as a general.
And war clerics aren't the pope and I'm wondering how accurate is that site you're referring to

So, again, such model for the pope won't be used in SSHIP. I really can't see why it's so difficult to understand.

Ok Lifth, both are two stubborn people , only was a proposal for this faction and figure, but if you say that soon they will not be playable anymore OK.
The webpage i think is accurate, many Christians and non-Christians are largely unaware of the history of Christianity. This website presents the facts as clearly as possible.

For the "war clerics" is true that many bishop and clerics were to war with maces and mitra hats but were isolated cases , they were not very common in the battlefields.

[Lifthrasir]

^^

[kostic]

To close this dispute, I would say that for the moment, I do not intend to change the appearance of the Pope because it is not in my priorities.
It is known that many bishops took command of armies and they probably had a distinctive sign on their armor.
Playing the papal faction with SSHIP is a fun experience but it takes the player away from a historical context which is the particularity of SSHIP.

[Nemesis2345]

https://gyazo.com/6e7bddb386ca3524d69a93b0303866b1

More portraits , have to say , archers are a pain to make , very hard to make their bows look....like bows on that smaller resolution.

Again , some cards are good , some ...not so much , im finishing with HRE cards and some Central Europe Mercs and will be moving to the next faction / mercs .

As for the Papal States , maybe from a gameplay standpoint since the Pope is hardcoded to be a general ( maybe CA thought it would be cool) would be interesting for him to have different model , but is not urgent.

At the same time from MY gameplay standpoint , i would give the Papal States the settlement on Corsica because he can't be the next Alexander The Great if he is stranded on an island. Really annoying when it snowballs out of control

[Eldgrimr]

Chronica Majora shows it for Otto IV(1175 – 1218) though it was made some decades later, so not that off;

https://www.hubert-herald.nl/ImpRomO...n/image060.jpg

though the one headed one was used more often till the 15th century, when the double headed one prevails.

Hence why I said it only came into common use in the 15th century. It wasn't common enough in the high middle ages that almost all infantry should have it. The single headed eagle would definitely be a better choice.

[paleologos]

I remember reading somewhere that in the HRE there were certain bishoprics that had the status of duchies.
The bishop would accordingly be afforded the privileges of a duke but also would be expected to perform the duties of a duke and fulfill the corresponding feudal obligations as well.
So we see that feudal lords of the HRE would not be exempted from their military or tax duties on the grounds of being clerics.
But this also meant that they were allowed to lead their vassal knights in battle as well.

I feel that one of the cheesiest unit concepts of the original M2TW is the warrior bishops - or is it the warrior clerics?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The above model is from SS6.4, these are Danes, I have no idea if this troop type has been given quarters in SSHIP.
The really ridiculous part of it is the Odin's raven on the caparison.

Still, historical fact makes for an opportunity for an interesting strategic gameplay twist:
If it is possible to script generals that can be recruited and are not counted in the total of the family tree.
The idea is that when building the church building line the player can be given the choice between a regular cathedral or a prince-bishopric cathedral.
If the second option is made then the player won't be allowed to recruit an extra bishop but a general's unit where the general will be that bishopric's bishop.
But I still think that a heavy cavalry unit of warrior clerics should be removed from the game.

That's my proverbial two cents.

[Nemesis2345]

I remember reading somewhere that in the HRE there were certain bishoprics that had the status of duchies.
The bishop would accordingly be afforded the privileges of a duke but also would be expected to perform the duties of a duke and fulfill the corresponding feudal obligations as well.
So we see that feudal lords of the HRE would not be exempted from their military or tax duties on the grounds of being clerics.
But this also meant that they were allowed to lead their vassal knights in battle as well.

I feel that one of the cheesiest unit concepts of the original M2TW is the warrior bishops - or is it the warrior clerics?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The above model is from SS6.4, these are Danes, I have no idea if this troop type has been given quarters in SSHIP.
The really ridiculous part of it is the Odin's raven on the caparison.

Still, historical fact makes for an opportunity for an interesting strategic gameplay twist:
If it is possible to script generals that can be recruited and are not counted in the total of the family tree.
The idea is that when building the church building line the player can be given the choice between a regular cathedral or a prince-bishopric cathedral.
If the second option is made then the player won't be allowed to recruit an extra bishop but a general's unit where the general will be that bishopric's bishop.
But I still think that a heavy cavalry unit of warrior clerics should be removed from the game.

That's my proverbial two cents.

Actually , i researched a bit and there actually existed some War Clerics in history. Absalon , Bishop of Roksilde and Archbishop of Lund was one such individual . He is actually praised as being both a very good man of the cloth and military man.
William the Conqueror it is also said to have had such a War Cleric from Denmark as one of his advisors during the fight against Saxons.

Obviously , there werent an army of them , but they existed , take is a modern-berserkers from ancient era .

Also , they were using a MACE because they respected the doctrine of not shedding blood with a sword .

I think they serve the same role as Canons of the Holy Sepulcher from Jerusalem , small squads of religious-fanatic warriors doing ,,God's Work'' differently.