Desiring Depth

[PFElton]

First of all, a little background, I've been playing Total War games for about 12 years now starting with Rome 1. As your titles have increased in magnitude and depth, I find myself more and more invested in your line as opposed to the yahoos in Sweden who can't seem to keep their trains on the rails.

So, I want to discuss two areas I feel Rome 2 is lacking in: Diplomacy, and the consequences of war.

So, diplomacy to build relations works pretty well for the current "level" of depth: You have non-aggression pacts to establish cordial relations, trade agreements to boost resources and income (though I wish this was a bit more custom as to what's being traded, military access, defensive pacts, and full alliances ready to kick butt and take names. Where it lacks is in the deterioration of relations; the only way to really get at an opponent is to declare war, or grant military access to a current foe of theirs (though this is very circumstantial in application). Sure you can deploy agents to sabotage their armies and locales, but that entire system feels outdated and tedious, to have to recruit these agents and click them around the map every turn for the sake of their functionality. The whole system needs to go the way of the Diplomat and be integrated into the Diplomacy UI, or even a separate one for 'Intrigue'. The functionality wouldn't really need to change; from an overhead map view you could select provinces or armies, attempt to disrupt them with timed effects calculated by distance, and should the action fail, your faction suffers a penalty likely tied to the difficulty of future intrigue against said army or city.

Secondly, war is typically of no consequence in Rome 2. Now as a disclaimer, I appreciate this it Total War: Rome 2 and not Europa Universalis: Rome, that largely being able to just march across a border and conquer to one's content is a core component of the experience. Still, there's things that can be done to take away the arcade-y feel:

-Abstract Population/Recruiting Pools: Simply abstract Civ-style number generated from the number of settlements and their size. It would make players be more considerate of wantonly declaring war and how long to pursue it. The system could be expanded on to add penalties for depleting the pool and bonuses for it staying (mostly) full. I would like to note a depleted recruiting pool was the primary reason Gaius Marius bothered to reform the Roman military into the (mostly) unstoppable legions we all think of.

-Supply Lines: This is already represented by attrition and food, but it could be a lot clearer as to where your supplies are coming from. It's confusing when I see I'm in -5 food because the Etruscans just revolted in Velathri and my Rome garrison is starving, but I go and check my army in Iberia and it's well-fed and toasty because... reasons.

-Sacking Settlements: A scorched earth strategy should be a thing, but it's incredibly foolish to raze any settlement in Rome 2 because unlike in Attila, you have to keep the settlements. Why do I want to tear it down to the foundations and lose all the food and income generation and other bonuses? Why can't I just wreck it and leave?

Just some suggestions and food for thought. I hope others add and this can become a great feedback thread, and I hope the developers see this not as off-put criticism, but friendly critique. You guys are making headway, and we want you to be able to fire on all 8 cylinders and net both the hardcore Grand Strategy players and the jocks that saw their brainy little brothers playing it.

[Theramines]

Good stuff. I agree the most about having a population pool of some sort. It worked well in MTW2 and added so much to campaign management. Also the one thing that ends my interest in particular campaigns faster than anything else is an AI that has an inexhaustible supply of full stacks waltzing through your defences to beeline your weaker settlements. Arguably the worst aspect of mid to late TW campaigns is grinding down relentless, carefree AI factions swimming in money and elite units. This brings me to...

-Functioning Campaign Map Zone of Control Rules: it's simply not good enough that stacks cannot be blocked at choke-points on the campaign map. There is no ZoC in Rome 2 (or Attila, WH1 and WH2). TW is supposed to be a strategy game series. I cannot fathom why it isn't there. Ambush stance is the only way to trigger some kind of ZoC, but that's much too limited.

-Forced March: should be removed entirely. It just frustrates and with the absence of ZoC rules, it makes a mockery of planning and positioning.

[PFElton]

-Functioning Campaign Map Zone of Control Rules: it's simply not good enough that stacks cannot be blocked at choke-points on the campaign map.

Now that's one thing that should be implemented. Military history is all about blocking an enemy at choke points. Wouldn't have been quite so memorable if all Xerxes had to do was tiptoe around the phalanx at Thermopylae.

[ltsweeting]

Download Divide Et Impera. I honestly cannot play the game without it because quite frankly Vanilla Rome II sucks. It adds so much depth and realism as much as the game's engine allows. They've done an amazing job. There's lots of sub mods for it too so you can further fine tune it to your liking. For example, Divide Et Impera does have an actual population recruitment mechanic. In one particularly campaign I was struggling because I was in multiple wars on Italian soil and I'd had to recruit and replenish so many units that I practically ran out of manpower to recruit from. Divide et Impera also does have a supply system. These are two examples correlating to what you're asking for. The mod has tonnes of other features which you can see for yourself:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...t-Impera-(DeI)

Also something else you may be interested in:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...=War+weariness

This basically creates penalties to your public order, unit morale, population growth etc if you get involved in too many wars. If you begin to suffer defeats these penalties are magnified.

This is also a good one. It makes it important for you to basically be a good ruler by maintaining a good economy, building projects and success on the battlefield.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...ople%27s+trust

Hope this helps you dude. I use those mods in conjunction with DeI as well as many others and I love it.

[ltsweeting]

Also just thought of another one you might like.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ge-10-march-18

This is a compilation but you can download each effect individually as you wish. One of the many things in this pack (or you can download it by itself) is reduced movement range by armies. I like it a lot, especially when I use it with a DeI 12 turns per year or 24 turns per year submod. Means armies travel much smaller distances per turn. As a result, it means you and the AI can't just leapfrog from one city to the next in 2 turns. A side effect of this is the AI is kinda better at defending its cities because it has more time to respond (as do you). Much more maneuvering of armies with this too because of aforementioned lack of the ability to travel huge distances each turn and bypass enemy armies at will. Another thing I like about it is that it severely penalizes movement in winter so campaigning in that season is much more difficult as it should be. Historically armies couldn't and didn't do too much in the winter months.

[PFElton]

Great, thanks a ton for the suggestions. I've been meaning to spend some time with DeI.

On principle, however, I don't think Creative Assembly should start using mods as a crutch like Paradox has. There's fundamental changes they could make to the base game to enhance the experience.