Curial Decisions Bill

[Spiff]

Curial Decisions Bill

Proposer: [user]Spiff[/user]
Supporters: [user]Tenhauser[/user], [user]Rolanbek[/user], [user]Evariste[/user]

Summary:
This bill gives the Curia an additional mechanism when creating bills. "Decisions" may be used as regular bills in order to show the opinion of the Curia on topics beyond what would normally be considered appropriate for the Syntagma.


The Legislation section of the Syntagma shall be replaced with the following revised version, incorporating a new paragraph on Curial Decisions:

Legislation

Any Citizen may post a bill in the Prothalamos for discussion, which does not require named support. Bills can take either of two forms:

• Amendments
  A proposal for an alteration to the text of TWC's Constitution, the Syntagma. Amendments may alter existing sections of the Syntagma, or add entirely new ones.

• Decisions
  A proposal for the creation of an official Decision of the Curia on a topic relevant to the functioning of TWC. The Curia has authority to direct the Staff of TWC in this way on any topic of which the primary say has been delegated from the Staff, who shall take such Curial Decisions under strong advisement. The Syntagma Curator shall determine if proposed Decisions fall within the jurisdiction of the Curia.

The procedure for proposing and voting on either type of bill is the same. Each version of a bill requires named support from at least three Patricians and must be debated for at least three days before the proposer may request a bill be moved to vote by the Syntagma Curator. If after three days a debate is still active, the Syntagma Curator may delay moving a bill to vote for a period of up to one month. Delay of longer than one month is subject to Staff ratification.

Once moved to vote in the Curia Votes sub-forum, all bills shall be voted on over a full week. Responses (including indirect methods such as signatures) in the Curia Votes sub-forum are limited to notification of having voted. All bills shall pass on the basis of a two-thirds majority of non-abstaining voters in favour. If any bill fails a vote, no re-vote on a substantially similar bill will be permitted within twenty-eight days.

All Citizens are honour bound to not view the results of Curia votes until they themselves have voted, unless necessary for the execution of other duties to the site.

Version History:

1.2 - Current draft. Changed wording again; Directive = Decision, + small wording changes.
Supporters:


1.1 - Current draft. Changed wording; Decison = Directive
Supporters: [user]Tenhauser[/user], [user]the Black Prince[/user], [user]Garbarsardar[/user]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Legislation section of the Syntagma shall be replaced with the following revised version, incorporating a new paragraph on Curial Directives:

Legislation

Any Citizen may post a bill in the Prothalamos for discussion, which does not require named support. Bills can take either of two forms:

• Amendments
  A proposal for an alteration to the text of TWC's Constitution, the Syntagma. Amendments may alter existing sections of the Syntagma, or add entirely new ones.

• Directives
  A proposal for the creation of an official directive from the Curia on a topic relevant to the functioning of TWC. The Curia has authority to direct the Staff of TWC on any topic of which the primary say has been delegated from the Staff, who shall take such directives under strong advisement as the will of the Curia. The Syntagma Curator shall determine if proposed directives fall within the jurisdiction of the Curia.

The procedure for proposing and voting on either type of bill is the same. Each version of a bill requires named support from at least three Citizens and must be debated for at least three days before the proposer may request a bill be moved to vote by the Syntagma Curator. If after three days a debate is still active, the Syntagma Curator may delay moving a bill to vote for a period of up to one month. Delay of longer than one month is subject to Staff ratification.

Once moved to vote in the Curia Votes sub-forum, all bills shall be voted on over a full week. Responses (including indirect methods such as signatures) in the Curia Votes sub-forum are limited to notification of having voted. All bills shall pass on the basis of a two-thirds majority of non-abstaining voters in favour. If any bill fails a vote, no re-vote on a substantially similar bill will be permitted within twenty-eight days.

All Citizens are honour bound to not view the results of Curia votes until they themselves have voted, unless necessary for the execution of other duties to the site.

1.0 - Initial Draft
Supporters: [user]Tenhauser[/user], [user]gigagaia[/user]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Legislation section of the Syntagma shall be replaced with the following revised version, incorporating a new paragraph on Curial Decisions:

Legislation

Any Citizen may post a bill in the Prothalamos for discussion, which does not require named support. Bills can take either of two forms:

• Amendments
  A proposal for an alteration to the text of TWC's Constitution, the Syntagma. Amendments may alter existing sections of the Syntagma, or add entirely new ones.

• Decisions
  A proposal for the creation of an official decision from the Curia on a topic relevant to the functioning of TWC. The Curia has authority to declare on any topic of which the primary say has been delegated from the Staff, who shall take such decisions under strong advisement as the will of the Curia. The Syntagma Curator shall determine if proposed decisions fall within the jurisdiction of the Curia.

The procedure for proposing and voting on either type of bill is the same. All bills require named support from at least three Citizens, and must be debated for at least three days, after which the proposer may request a bill be moved to vote by the Syntagma Curator. If after three days a debate is still active, the Syntagma Curator may delay moving a bill to vote for a period of up to one month. Delay of longer than one month is subject to Staff ratification.

Once moved to vote in the Curia Vote sub-forum, all bills shall be voted on over a full week. Responses (including indirect methods such as signatures) in the Curia Vote sub-forum are limited to notification of having voted. All bills shall pass on the basis of a two-thirds majority of non-abstaining voters in favour. If any bill fails a vote, no revote on a substantially similar bill will be permitted for twenty-eight days.

All Citizens are honour bound to not view the results of Curia votes until they themselves have voted, unless necessary for the execution of other duties to the site.

[John Wayne]

I support this Bill in full.

[the Black Prince]

i support, but suggest Directives as a better name rather than Decisions...


"The Citizens of the Curia of TWC hereby direct the staff to... use the colour pink for Strategos rank"
or whatever

[Spiff]

Decisions isn't the best word for it i suppose.. recommendation would probably be best as it is in EU law

[gigagaia]

While good in spirit, meaningless in practice if the curia has no mandate to guide it...

I'll support... but I hope there is more to come...

[the Black Prince]

lol, i chose directives for a reason!

regulations are binding and directly effective

directives leave the choice to member states as to implementation, and generally won't have direct effect.

given that anything the Curia says isn't going to have a "The Curia has spoken, make it so" feel to it, Directive is probably a closer approximation...

[Spiff]

Maybe so, but the Curia has no ECJ to go to..

Ok ill change it to directive - and yes Gig more is likely coming..

[Simetrical]

I like "recommendation" better than "directive". If that change is made, I support.

[Silver Guard]

I like directive more then recommendation, if It changes I'll withdraw the support I have for it currently

[Belisarius]

I like directive, gots more balls to it which is something the Curia is lacking. Support.

[Ragabash]

The Syntagma Curator shall determine if proposed directives fall within the jurisdiction of the Curia.

This is something that needs addressing. Perhaps we should discuss about the fact that the Curator would come outside the staff.

Either we should make the Curator an office outside the staff or change the Curator to Hex(all of them) in this case, either one of these would work much better for the Curia and make it more clear who makes the final decision in this case, Curia or Hex.

[Spiff]

Hex makes the final decision (Staff veto section), but failing a decision from Hex as a whole, it can be made by the Curator.

[Ragabash]

Hex makes the final decision (Staff veto section), but failing a decision from Hex as a whole, it can be made by the Curator.

Not true(I believe), Curator makes the final decision that HEX can later veto with its legal rights. Please correct me if I'm all wrong, but Curator is below HEX, thus not being able to make final decisions.

Curator position seems to be ratified for the staff(it seems so) and if this is the case I don't see a reason to give staff double decision/veto right for this matter, a single decision/veto should be enough if it comes from the same source.

Infact, whole consept of Curator is rather absurd as it seems to represent more HEX then Curia.

[Spiff]

Not true(I believe), Curator makes the final decision that HEX can later veto with its legal rights. Please correct me if I'm all wrong, but Curator is below HEX, thus not being able to make final decisions.

Yes that's what i said, the Curator can make a provisional decision but the final say in situations which warrant further discussion will rest with Hex as a whole.

The position of Curator is not absurd, as El Cid points out, the Curator is the appointed representative of Hex in the Curia on a day to day basis

[imb39]

The Curator is, I suppose, Hex's representative in the Curia. Also, the Curator represents the Curia in Hex too.

[Ragabash]

The Curator is, I suppose, Hex's representative in the Curia. Also, the Curator represents the Curia in Hex too.

Yes, indeed.

But to how far can the Curator represent the Curia inside Hex if the Curia is not allowed choose/remove/change Curators.

Perhaps Curia should be allowed to choose Pro-Curator(from senior or junior staff), who represent the Curia inside HEX, while Curator represent HEX inside the Curia. This would solve this problem, at least far as I can tell.

[Simetrical]

Hmm, rereading this: "The Syntagma Curator shall determine if proposed directives fall within the jurisdiction of the Curia." What would fall outside the jurisdiction of the Curia here? I thought the idea was that the Curia could give its opinion on anything this way.

Also, I prefer "recommendation" to "directive" because a directive sounds mandatory. Let's not give the Curia more things that sound like it has more power than it does. This bill explicitly states that the directive is non-binding, which contradicts the common meaning of the word: "An order or instruction, especially one issued by a central authority." That's just confusing.

[Rolanbek]

Very complex way of saying "we think this"

How about rather than Curial Directive or Curial Recommendation you say something like Curial Consensus?

DirectivesCuria Consensus
A proposal for the creation of an official direction Curial Stancefrom the Curia on aon any topic including those relevant to the functioning of TWC. The Curia has authority to direct the Staff of TWC that a consensus vote in this manner to on any topic of which the primary say has been delegated from the Staff, who shall take such directivesconsensus under strong advisement as the will of the Curia. The Syntagma Curator shall determine if proposed directives fall within the jurisdiction of the Curia.

Right, that takes the lead pipe from the newspaper...

R

[Spiff]

Hmm, rereading this: "The Syntagma Curator shall determine if proposed directives fall within the jurisdiction of the Curia." What would fall outside the jurisdiction of the Curia here? I thought the idea was that the Curia could give its opinion on anything this way.

Well the jurisdiction in the bill is stated as any "topic relevant to the functioning of TWC" though there is a recent thread by Asterix in Hex you could look over. The functioning of TWC is vague enough in any case to permit decisions on anything really.

As for the name - I'm not exactly bothered whatever is chosen, but this is why i chose the word 'decision' in the first place as it is relatively neutral, though recommendation is good also.

Rolanbek, i don't really like the word consensus though as to me it too strongly implies the decision is unanimous if it passes.

[Garbarsardar]

Je support ze bill.