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Thread: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

  1. #41
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Some news!

    First, I had some busy week ends with personnal stuff to do, and very busy days at the office, so I couldn't work as fast as I'd hope...

    I have almost finished the rework of HE lords and heros, to redo the unit cards and portholes in the new style, and add new variations. I only have the princess and handmaiden left to do.

    In the same time, I've worked on the tables
    - Included some AI changes, some adjustement in the rules for Wind of Magic, Tower and Siege...
    - Reworked the speed of units, each unit now has its own speed.
    - Reworked the weapons. Melee weapons are done, projectile are next. The goal is to adjust a little the stats to have it a little more consistent. But not BIG change.
    - Cleaned some effects desciption to make it easier to read, especially for effect like "recruitment cost reduction for X units"

    I'm now considering several options for the future:

    1) Climate overhaul: the idea is to have one more suitability level (if the game engine allows), and more variations (like Desert Mountain, Snow Mountain, Forest Mountain), and a rework of what climates are suitable for each faction. There are already some mods doing this kind of stuff, but I'd like to have my own version.

    2) Occupation overhaul. The idea is to give more options when occuyping some settlements. Exemple with HE:
    - Possibility to vassalize the faction if it's a HE or WE. Other factions cannot be vassals
    - Possibility to gift the region to another "order" faction (HE, WE, Empire, Bretonnia, Teb, Kislev or Lizardmen), if you don't want to keep it
    - Possibility to liberate the faction, if it's an "order" faction.

    There are also some mods like this, but they are usually "liberate any one" kind. I want to make it more detailed. Each faction will have adjusted options.

    For example, the WE will only be able to vassalize another WE, and only when capturing a few specific settlement like Athel Loren. But they could liberate or gift.

    DE can vassalize other DE, or gift/liberate, but only other DE: they will not gift to other races.


    There's also another big decision ahead: what to do with the startpos?

    I'm currently using Crynsos's unlocker. It's nice because :
    - it's widely used, to it helps with compatibility.
    - it allows playing virtually any faction, so it's good for replayability.
    - it already includes special secondary slots for every region, very good for my regional recruitment system.


    However, I think it has several drawbacks
    - Vortex campaign is not covered at all
    - It allows playing any faction... but maybe too many. Selection screen is to cluttered... And it has some minor changes that goes with it.
    - It takes time to update with any new release. Probably because it has too many scripts of additional changes.

    So I'm considering making my own startpos
    - For regional recruitment, included in Vortex campaign
    - With additional slots to allow more building variety. It may allow having two kind of buildings for units "generic units", and "heraldic units". It could make things clearer and easier to organize.

    What do you think of these ideas?

  2. #42
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    1) Climate overhaul: the idea is to have one more suitability level (if the game engine allows), and more variations (like Desert Mountain, Snow Mountain, Forest Mountain), and a rework of what climates are suitable for each faction. There are already some mods doing this kind of stuff, but I'd like to have my own version.
    Yep, more climates which will force player for example to build different buildings for max effect or to negate the climate. One example of completely uselless building usually is Barly Field/Goat Herd for Dwarfs. What about making it important in non favourite climates? And probably some other changes too so player is force to build a few buildings to counter region negatives and not just focus on getting most money.

    2) Occupation overhaul. The idea is to give more options when occuyping some settlements. Exemple with HE:
    - Possibility to vassalize the faction if it's a HE or WE. Other factions cannot be vassals
    - Possibility to gift the region to another "order" faction (HE, WE, Empire, Bretonnia, Teb, Kislev or Lizardmen), if you don't want to keep it
    - Possibility to liberate the faction, if it's an "order" faction.

    There are also some mods like this, but they are usually "liberate any one" kind. I want to make it more detailed. Each faction will have adjusted options.

    For example, the WE will only be able to vassalize another WE, and only when capturing a few specific settlement like Athel Loren. But they could liberate or gift.

    DE can vassalize other DE, or gift/liberate, but only other DE: they will not gift to other races.
    Sounds great. Actually would it be possible to adopt little similar system to WE/Norsca for other factions too? Like Dwarfs being unable to build full cities in normal land..basically everywhere except mountains and such terrain. Basically compromise between conquer/build everywhere and being limited jsut to some areas as in Wh1.

    About libarating, only limits should be probably order faction unable to liberate chaos/destruction factions and back..

    There's also another big decision ahead: what to do with the startpos?

    I'm currently using Crynsos's unlocker. It's nice because :
    - it's widely used, to it helps with compatibility.
    - it allows playing virtually any faction, so it's good for replayability.
    - it already includes special secondary slots for every region, very good for my regional recruitment system.

    However, I think it has several drawbacks
    - Vortex campaign is not covered at all
    - It allows playing any faction... but maybe too many. Selection screen is to cluttered... And it has some minor changes that goes with it.
    - It takes time to update with any new release. Probably because it has too many scripts of additional changes.

    So I'm considering making my own startpos
    - For regional recruitment, included in Vortex campaign
    - With additional slots to allow more building variety. It may allow having two kind of buildings for units "generic units", and "heraldic units". It could make things clearer and easier to organize.

    What do you think of these ideas?
    -I would invest into own startpos. It means lower number of players but higher control and much cleaner system. Effectively "cloning" Crynsos´s startpos secondary slots for every region is pain in the ass but then if you plan to cover other campaign as well nobody else is doing that for you. It would take time.
    -Own startpos means more landmarks for Vortex, heraldic system, which is great! I would love to play your both in both campaigns.

    -Plus if you want, you can look at changing visual occupation according to the race, i really miss that feature from Wh1.
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  3. #43
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Yep, more climates which will force player for example to build different buildings for max effect or to negate the climate. One example of completely uselless building usually is Barly Field/Goat Herd for Dwarfs. What about making it important in non favourite climates? And probably some other changes too so player is force to build a few buildings to counter region negatives and not just focus on getting most money.
    I'm not sure it's possible to link a building to the climate directly. But indirectly to a region using landmarks that could be possible.
    But if the climate are not suitable, and you have more occupation options, then you could liberate/gift the regions which are not interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Sounds great. Actually would it be possible to adopt little similar system to WE/Norsca for other factions too? Like Dwarfs being unable to build full cities in normal land..basically everywhere except mountains and such terrain. Basically compromise between conquer/build everywhere and being limited jsut to some areas as in Wh1.
    This is a little different but yes I could make some buildings not possible like this, where Dwarves couldn't build in some lands. Once again gives more importance to the occupation options

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    About libarating, only limits should be probably order faction unable to liberate chaos/destruction factions and back..
    I'm not sure of this. Would Vampire liberate a DE faction? Would DE liberate Norsca?


    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    -I would invest into own startpos. It means lower number of players but higher control and much cleaner system. Effectively "cloning" Crynsos´s startpos secondary slots for every region is pain in the ass but then if you plan to cover other campaign as well nobody else is doing that for you. It would take time.
    -Own startpos means more landmarks for Vortex, heraldic system, which is great! I would love to play your both in both campaigns.
    Yes, it's a lot of work. But if I focus on adding landmarks and slots, it will be quite somework for the first time. But then relatively easy update for the next time, once most db tables are done.
    I believe Crynsos may difficulties are more with unlocking factions, and changing other stuff and scripts

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    -Plus if you want, you can look at changing visual occupation according to the race, i really miss that feature from Wh1.
    That would be nice, but I'm not sure how it's done

  4. #44
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I'm not sure it's possible to link a building to the climate directly. But indirectly to a region using landmarks that could be possible.
    But if the climate are not suitable, and you have more occupation options, then you could liberate/gift the regions which are not interesting.
    It is more opposite way, creating regional effect that is affecting buildings. I was not checking WH1/2 but in Rome/Attila it was possible to add regional effect. For example there is list "Wonders" which were implemented in exactly that way
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...cts_in_rome_2/
    Now you are using the landmark building to provide such regional effect

    Anyway i was more thinking about having more severe negative climate penalties. For example:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    current Wh2 climates:

    1)Habitable / Favourable

    Habitable climates have no penalties for occupying a settlement.
    Unpleasant

    2)Unpleasant climates are penalized. Construction times of settlements are increased and income, replenishment and public order are lowered:

    Construction cost: +30% for all buildings

    Construction time: +3 for Province Capital/Settlement buildings

    Income from all buildings: -15%

    Casualty replenishment rate: -8%

    Public order: -1

    3)Uninhabitable

    Uninhabitable climates suffer severe penalties. You can still occupy them, but construction and recruitment times are increased. Income, replenishment, growth and public order are reduced severely:

    Construction time: +100% for all buildings

    Recruitment duration: +1 turn for all units

    Construction cost: +50% for all buildings

    Income from all buildings: -50%

    Casualty replenishment rate: -15%

    Growth: -7

    Public order: -3

    The public order penalty,growth,casualty replenishment are quite nothing in late game. What about stepping those way up.

    Barley Field (tier 1) providing +15 Growth / +2% replenishment..While tier 4 is providing +38/+5%
    Growth from main chain is +5/+7/+10/+13/+15

    There is no Growth problem for Unpleasant climate and Uninhabitable is countered almost just by main building chain. I would either step up Growth penalty but that is just pushing the barrier or if possible rewrite the climate effect to lower all Growth effect inside region by fix percentage.

    Unpleasant: -50% All Growth effects
    Uninhabitable: -75%

    Again, not 100% sure but in R2/Attila engine was recognizing commands to alter resource production via another building (building A - +20 resource XYZ production, building B - modify all resource production XYZ in region by +50% ,think it was working with many other effects as well)

    Just example

    This is a little different but yes I could make some buildings not possible like this, where Dwarves couldn't build in some lands. Once again gives more importance to the occupation options
    Exactly. I love how Wh1 funnel without force some faction to expand or keep around certain areas.
    I'm not sure of this. Would Vampire liberate a DE faction? Would DE liberate Norsca?
    If it will serve greater purpose as buffer? Or liberate in form of Vassals?
    Yes, it's a lot of work. But if I focus on adding landmarks and slots, it will be quite somework for the first time. But then relatively easy update for the next time, once most db tables are done.
    I believe Crynsos may difficulties are more with unlocking factions, and changing other stuff and scripts
    it is pretty repetitive once you started. :-) And it is great groundings for future possibilites. However depends how are you preparing startpos. Doing this kind of work in PFM is way long and every startpos update basically means doing all work anew. Either AK or unpack startpos file via ESFviaXML scripting.
    That would be nice, but I'm not sure how it's done
    there is already mod for that:
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...ace+occupation
    So either ask author if you want to use his mod or I can write you guide how to do it by yourself. :-)
    Last edited by Daruwind; November 18, 2018 at 07:10 PM.
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Interesting things, here, but a lot to do for a one-man team....

    So I'll do this step by step unless I get some commited an reliable help .

    1) Finish the WE, with the HE update. This will include some
    - use of wsmodel instead of rigidmodel. For HE resources, the size of the pack went from 440 Mb to 250 Gb, with variation added for Mages and some heros/lords
    - general AI and general stats tweaking,
    - some streamlining of the Elven races stats, including weapons. It may not be fully balanced with other races at start, but I'll do the other races one by one later.
    - rework of the unit cards and porthole with the new style, including for Lords and Heros. And with some additional variations.
    - lore specific graphics for mages.

    2) Update the DE, to make them same level as WE and HE.

    3) Rework occupation options

    4) Rework Climates

    I hope to finish these points for end of year, but it's a huge task...


    5) Make my own Startpos
    - Add specific secondary slot everywhere for regional recruitment, and have it work with Vortex
    - Add slots to region

    6) Expand DE, HE and WE with a few additional factions (Bowmen of Oreon, Citadel of Dawn, etc) so it can also work fully with the Vortex Map.

    7) Rework a little the buildings for DE, HE, WE so they are more interesting for new climates

    8) Activate DrunkFlamingo's concept to restrict the number of special/rare units in an army

    If I go fast enough with points 1 to 4, may be I can do this during my winter vacation. But still a lot to do...


    9) The Empire.... and then the other factions.

    I doubt I can start working on this before 2020.
    Last edited by Steph; November 19, 2018 at 03:47 AM.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Magnificent!! I try to find any oddity and nothing! I love HE! ))
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    I have added a sticky listing the main changes in the mod beside the graphics and recruitment

  8. #48
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    I have noticed that CA hardly use the visibility and hide scalar parameters.

    So I'd like to play a bit with it. Hide scalar has a base value of 1.0
    - I'd like to big very big units such as dragon with a value of 2.0 So they are very easy to detect
    - Artillery could be 1.5
    - Cavalry 1.2, easier to detect than infantry.
    - Units with shinny armor would be easier to spot (maybe 0.2)
    - While small size units, or with reputation for stealth of camouflage could have -0.2

    Here are some examples:
    - Star Dragon : 2.0. Big, easy to see
    - Phoenix: 2.0 smaller, but easy to spot
    - Silver Helms: 1.4 : Cavalry, shinny, easy to spot
    - HE Spearmen : 1.2, shinny.
    - WE spearmen or archer : 0.9, duller garb
    - WE deepscout: 0.8
    - WE Waywatcher : 0.6 (master at hiding), etc.

    I can also play with the Spot_distance to make some units better at scouting.
    For example, WE hawkrider could have a much better spotting distance than DE Executionner with their mask.

    It could open new interesting ways to use your armies.

    I think it can be fun, but I'd need some testers to try this in different custom battles, with different army composition and different maps, see if it works well.

  9. #49
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Quick test: do you notice the difference? Which one do you prefer?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    Last edited by Steph; December 30, 2018 at 10:44 PM.

  10. #50
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Top one? Question is, if that is the difference. Bottom one seems to have more washed out colours while top one is more saturated? And maybe top sword seems to be more ornated.
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  11. #51
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Since I used two textures set for the same units, I had to replace them in my pack and start the battle again, so they don't have exactly the same weather/lighting, so it's not 100% objective comparison.

    The bottom one is my first version. Pristine one. It may be good for HE on parade, but I think it is not so nice in battle.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    For my second version, the top one, I've added some "fog" to make it more "campaign worn".



    And... I reduced the texture size from 1024 to 512. I think it is hardly noticable in game. But just by reducing the size of the HE shield, the pack is 40 Mb smaller!

    Since it seems you prefer Top One, I think this size reduction is worth keeping. It may help with the performances, even if I have much more texture than vanilla game.
    Last edited by Steph; December 30, 2018 at 10:39 PM.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Some news

    - I made my own startpos, so the mod will no longer be dependant on Crynsos's unlocker.

    - I've added regional recruitement for the HE, and will soon do the WE. They'll play differently, as they'll be able to build small barracks outside of Athel loren to protect their outposts. More about that later. I will also expand DE later, at the moment they have barracks in /outside naggaroth. They'll have more specific barracks and heraldry for each main DE city (hopefully in January).

    - I have added two slots to each provincial capitals. But only when the city is controlled by its main faction.
    --> Lothern has 12 slots when occupied by an HE faction, only 10 when occupied by another faction.
    Last edited by Steph; December 23, 2018 at 01:36 AM.

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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Some screenshots of the coming update

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Portraits in the campaign selection (only HE and WE at the moment, more later)


    Lothern with 12 slots


    Lothern buildings with different recruitment options (Sea Guards from the parts, light archers from archery range, additional level for barracks and stables...), 5 levels for landmark


    Army recruitment


    Last edited by Steph; December 30, 2018 at 10:40 PM.

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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Athel Loren. 14 Slots

    Ammunition bonus for fletcher (and armor for the forge). Additional buillding level for basic military

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Last edited by Steph; December 30, 2018 at 10:41 PM.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Each province of Athel Loren has a unique landmarks.

    It now has 5 levels, with a more progressive bonus. And they also increase the capacity of the heraldic units you can recruit in this province.
    Controlling the Oak of Age is also very important to increase your capacity!


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Last edited by Steph; December 30, 2018 at 10:42 PM.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    The Asrai can still build outposts... Where they can build the basic military buildings. Not much, but enough to have a least the most basic generic units. They are weaker than the troops from Athel Loren, but can help with public order and protect the far reaches of WE territory.

    The outpost can grow to level 2, and so give another slot for another building. But the growth is quite slow...


  17. #57
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Full Rosters for Oreon's Bowmen

    They recruit standard fair skin Elven units in any region, clothed in their faction colour



    But in the Heart of the Jungle province, they recruit their unique units: darker skin Elves.


  18. #58
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity


  19. #59
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    New version released today, get it on Steam!

    Includes HE update, and new WE faction.

    Happy new year!

  20. #60
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    New categories and reorganization of the custom battle setup


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