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Thread: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

  1. #1
    Hader's Avatar Things are very seldom what they seem. In my experience, they’re usually a damn sight worse.
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    Default Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Alright, I'll just cut straight to the chase here, as enough time has passed already.


    1) There will be no overall section overseer/director representing GS for a time, as Soul has expressed he wishes to take a break, and his wishes now resigned, and the needs of GS will be revisited soon in that regard. Current GS may stick to their sections of choice, as relates to their preferences (and I assume no one is likely to be shifting from where they already are staff for so this shouldn't really change anything). I will not be reinstating any former staff for the very near future, as the general workings and place of staff here is still to be looked at. Do not take this as a guarantee that anyone will be allowed back in staff with any degree of certainty.


    In short, what this means for now is that current GS will stick to their current sections and games as they desire, and there will be no Director for the entire section for the very near future. Refer any questions or concerns to either this thread, any GS you feel appropriate, or myself.


    2) I realize the need for many of the rules in place for hotseats to be ran reliably, smoothly and consistently, and I don't want to touch these much, and for the time being I think the currently written rule of two games for non GS that do not wish to share admin passwords, and five games max for those who do share with GS, should be fine to stay. My hope is it won't affect much how we get back up and running again, but this will be revisited in the future by GS when deemed appropriate. If people feel it necessary to change this rule further, especially for the immediate future, feel free to comment on it, but do remember how it may affect the current members of GS going forward and avoid creating more unecessary drama over it.


    3) Regardless of what happens now and in the future, and whatever "camp" you may identify yourself with at this point, I think everyone here needs to realize their own fault in this recent escapade. I have myself not done well, more so in the past having not done enough to set up GS here for better relations and communications with hex before I had to leave, and not allowing it the best attention it could get as a result. And as I have been, and still am fairly busy, it has made getting to addressing things here quite the drag, so for all that I apologize.

    But through this I still have seen far from great behavior or decisions from some members, as well inconsistencies and biased candor from some as well, which has made solving this in one perfect way pretty much impossible. The unwillingness to see things more objectively has made the best possible reconciliation scenario impossible and I am frankly disappointed (I know, now I sound like the disappointed parent) that it has been like this at every corner. What essentially amounts to ultimatums of "it has to be this way or else", or something to that effect, is not only ineffective in actually getting anywhere, but frankly something I have little patience for. It is a big part of why nothing I could see would placate everyone and those who went with this tactic know whom they are.

    We don't need to worry about that anymore as it relates to the past (not entirely at least), so things can move forward, but suffice to say everyone does need to do better in that regard. Even for those at little to no fault or even having barely been a part of it in any way, there needs to be effort to cut the bs at all levels from all sides. I am not going to name anyone, as it is unnecessary at this point, and I have talked plenty to many people and specifically as needed. Do not view anything I have done now to be taking one side or another, and I would caution anyone from viewing this as some sort of "victory" and to seriously reconsider why this really had to come to this point in the first place and what needs to be done to avoid it again in the future. This goes for myself and staff, as well as everyone that considers themselves part of this community. There needs to be forgiveness, but at the same time I am not going to forgo holding some people accountable for their actions, regardless of the perceived outcome now and later, and that goes doubly for current and former staff.

    Feel free to comment or PM me as usual. I would also like to thank Soul for his work over time here, regardless of the issues of the section, his views on it and reasons for resigning, his work is still greatly appreciated.

    -Hader

  2. #2

    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    An ending to satisfy everyone was never a plot at the end of this journey. I admire you for taking on the issue, as it is a particularly tricky one. Thanks for giving it a fair shot. I'm curious, though - what exactly is the role of GS at this point? What has changed? What is their functional purpose? Anyways, hopefully there's some sort of activity in General one of these days. I'm picky on the kind of hotseats I would actually join, but who knows - perhaps one to suit my flavor will pop up and the forum can avoid the 'dark ages' syndrome.

  3. #3
    Mergor's Avatar T H E | G O R
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    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    I personally welcome the decision that non-gs aren't forced to send passwords with a limit. Even if only for two games, it's a balance between "no passwords" and "all passwords".

    I also agree having no overseer for the time being is a good decision. It eradicates any remaining rivalry and gives a greater autonomy to the GS-s of each section.

    Overall, I support your decisions, and I thank you for your work. It must have been pretty frustrating hearing two opposing factions rambling at you for a month. I think I'm happier that you "joined" neither side in the end.

  4. #4
    cowcow's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    I think the Director position should just be eliminated. Putting GS at the head of each section (imo Dragon should come back for main and Belth should take over Westeros) would let the GS work within the confines of each community, removing the need for one person to manage all of hotseating and letting each section be guided by someone focused on the needs of its specific community.

    In any case, this dialogue alone is an enormous upgrade to the past few months. I'm looking forward to the end of the bickering and spitefulness.

  5. #5
    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Well, seems things now finally certainly have a potentional to improve, and bring community back together.

    Not having a director from GS is probaly for the best, considering most of GS nowadays usually sticks to one section only, so having one of them rule the other sections would likely lead to the same problems that got us here, at least for now.

    However, I would like to point out 5 hotseats admin cap has been in place for Westeros, not the main (General nowadays). In Main section it was (has been) 10. Making it 5 now would complicate the potentional return of main section hotseats and players(as some of us admin more than 5), that seems likely considering the direction you are taking.

    However, the main cause for the recent events was in general position of Gaming Staff towards the community, and especially how much authority do they actually have, so I think to put things to rest as soon as possible it would be great if you could give us more info about this matter, Hader, whether it stays the same, or is changed, or at least a direction things are going to take, so people can make their minds and things get concluded for once and all.
    Last edited by Jadli; February 25, 2018 at 06:18 PM.

  6. #6
    joerock22's Avatar Leader of Third Age HS
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    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    I'm curious, though - what exactly is the role of GS at this point? What has changed? What is their functional purpose?
    Gaming Staff oversees the hotseating sections. We try to make sure TWCenter is a fun place to play (preventing abuse, making sure admins are doing their job, etc.). We also innovate and sponsor initiatives for the good of the community. Without GS you would have no tournaments, no special rewards for winning hotseats, no annual player awards -- basically nothing except the individual hotseat games themselves. That is fine if all you want is the hotseats. But the community doesn't grow that way, and if people are allowed to do and say anything they want, the community suffers.

    The role is not to control; it is to oversee and sponsor. There has been too much misinformation spread concerning this, and too many people still believe the misinformation.

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    Anyways, hopefully there's some sort of activity in General one of these days. I'm picky on the kind of hotseats I would actually join, but who knows - perhaps one to suit my flavor will pop up and the forum can avoid the 'dark ages' syndrome.
    If you feel this way, then I encourage you to create your own hotseat in the general section. Hotseat creators can play in their own hotseats, as long as they find an admin willing to accept the role. Too many people rely on GS to do the work, and then complain that GS has too much control over the hotseat sections.

    I personally welcome the decision that non-gs aren't forced to send passwords with a limit. Even if only for two games, it's a balance between "no passwords" and "all passwords".
    You will feel that way until one of your hotseats is forced to stop because the admin vanishes off the face of the earth. Then having a very secure repository of admin passwords accessible by only high-ranking members of the site (the majority of GS members not included) doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

    I think the Director position should just be eliminated. Putting GS at the head of each section (imo Dragon should come back for main and Belth should take over Westeros) would let the GS work within the confines of each community, removing the need for one person to manage all of hotseating and letting each section be guided by someone focused on the needs of its specific community.
    This is essentially what has been happening. Again, a lot of misinformation has been spread regarding how Soul was a tyrant, imposing his will on the individual hotseat communities. Nothing could be further from the truth. Take it from me, the head of Third Age hotseating, who has not once had Soul impose his own will upon me.

    In my opinion, it does not harm the community to have one person whose specific role is to focus on the needs of the community at whole, rather than on any one individual section. That is what Soul has been doing.

    In any case, this dialogue alone is an enormous upgrade to the past few months. I'm looking forward to the end of the bickering and spitefulness.
    The bickering and spitefulness should have ended when the hotseats in the main section were removed. Both sides should have gone their separate ways. If people from 'the opposing faction' wanted to continue to participate here at TWCenter, that is fine. I don't have any problem with folks playing on both forums. But check your self-righteousness at the door. It's the fact that people want to continue to be self-righteous, to pretend that they are blameless, to cause trouble here that is the issue. It would be analogous to me showing up at Jadli's forum, railing against Jadli and the other leaders, and generally being a thorn in everyone's side. That is essentially what has been happening here, in reverse.

    Have the responses from people here at TWCenter been unjustifiably mean-spirited or generally uncalled for? Absolutely. But they wouldn't be necessary if people would simply play on both forums without feeling the need to grandstand and convince everyone that they are 100% right and Soul and others are 100% wrong. If this truly does constitute an end to those behaviors, then I will be pleased.

    Well, seems things now finally certainly have a potentional to improve, and bring community back together.
    This is rich, coming from the chief architect of dividing the community in the first place.

    However, the main cause for the recent events was in general position of Gaming Staff towards the community, and especially how much authority do they actually have, so I think to put things to rest as soon as possible it would be great if you could give us more info about this matter, Hader, whether it stays the same, or is changed, or at least a direction things are going to take, so people can make their minds.
    This is more of the same. More misinformation. More appearing on TWCenter and trying to justify your actions. More attacking those who disagree with you. You left, Jadli. You caused a lot of others to leave with you. Stop grandstanding.

    Have I showed up at your forum with a soapbox? Has Soul? [the answer is no] So put away your soapbox, play hotseats at TWCenter if you want to, and stop trying to convince everyone you are right.

  7. #7
    cowcow's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Joe you haven't had a conversation with me about this situation, so to go on about misinformation while trying to read between the lines of what I say is a little self-righteous in itself. My opinion on how GS should operate going forward has nothing to do with Soul. What I said about bickering was not a subliminal hit at "the other side". Both sides, neither of which am I a part of, have acted childishly and made it impossible to have an honest dialogue about the situation.

  8. #8
    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by joerock22 View Post
    This is rich, coming from the chief architect of dividing the community in the first place.
    By the amount of hotseats and players the community decisively was in a very bad shape in the last month, and given the recent events its likely going to improve back to normal. If it goes beyond that, thats hard to say right now...

    Quote Originally Posted by joerock22 View Post
    This is more of the same. More misinformation. More appearing on TWCenter and trying to justify your actions. More attacking those who disagree with you. You left, Jadli. You caused a lot of others to leave with you. Stop grandstanding.

    Have I showed up at your forum with a soapbox? Has Soul? [the answer is no] So put away your soapbox, play hotseats at TWCenter if you want to, and stop trying to convince everyone you are right.
    You know, we have been wanting to return to TWC Hotseats since day one. (and I have been still active on the other parts of the forum tho, so cant just stop appearing around). We made pretty clear what the reasons for us leaving were . Thus, if they got fixed in some at least a bit, it is expectable those people might come back, we never said we wouldnt (not that I could say much on TWC during the time as I was banned). We have been waiting on the hex to make a final decision (which is still not done fully...). Unfortunately, it took very long so I understand why some ppl might have thought we were gone for good.

    I had no intention of attacking anyone by this post, and if I somehow did, than I have unfortunately dramatically misjudged the gravity of the first sentence... The only intention I have at this point is to bring things to normal as soon as possible, I assume you are on the same page about that? And I have no problem with acknowledging my own fault on some things, if that is what you seek.
    Last edited by Jadli; February 25, 2018 at 07:17 PM.

  9. #9
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Well, Hader has now made it an official precedent that Hex will cave into Terrorism. Good job. Standards have flown out the window and all the children now need, is to bring a bomb to a debate so they can ensure they win everytime.

    Also, let's not pretend this has anything to do with anything but Jadli breaking rules. He knew he was about to be punished, laid down the foundations and all the lackies partook in discussion on grabbing as many TWC players as possible.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Last edited by Lifthrasir; February 26, 2018 at 02:03 AM. Reason: Spoiler added for clarity

  10. #10

    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Off TWC conversations done between friends, taken out of context - does not belong here.
    Please leave already Parafix or at least don't do the very things they have consistently been accused of.

    Absolute absurdity.

    It's sad to see Soul go, regardless of "side". Now, Jadli is not perfect, but even this convo shows him wanting to limit friction.
    Don't be a prick, don't be a whiny little child - Stop White Genocide and Praise Jesus.

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  11. #11
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithridate View Post
    Off TWC conversations done between friends, taken out of context - does not belong here.
    Please leave already Parafix or at least don't do the very things they have consistently been accused of.

    Absolute absurdity.

    It's sad to see Soul go, regardless of "side". Now, Jadli is not perfect, but even this convo shows him wanting to limit friction.
    You'd have a case, if he and others didn't pull every hotseat from default to a site under his full control, steal TWC content as if it were his own, steal official TWC hosted events, pming players that hotseats have officially moved to his site and then taking those pms to off site contact after being banned, then to act as if he had no say in it, like it just naturally happened and now things have smoothed over he'll return.

    I have not pulled my games off site, or use that as ammunition to get my own way, no different to me using my admin control over the TWC YT channel, I have pulled all my future projects, because why on earth would i continue working for something as hard as i do for people who would potentially use that was as future ammunition, or to allow use for people who have done nothing but harm, yeah, not happening

  12. #12

    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Most #NotAll of that was theirs. You and the TWC does not have claim to their time, their work, their participation and they are free to leave -
    with expected difficulties from doing so obviously that sadly annoys everyone.

    This is not extortion or terrorism with you deliberately trying to keep the bickering going.
    You're free to leave as well - do so. But please stop behaving exactly as you accuse them of.
    Don't be a prick, don't be a whiny little child - Stop White Genocide and Praise Jesus.

    Very nice, Getting a good picture everybody? So we look nice and handsome and thin? Thank you. -The God Emperor, creating world peace and unforgettable memes
    https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/statu...48737210662912 <-- Unforgettable face.

  13. #13
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithridate View Post
    Most #NotAll of that was theirs. You and the TWC does not have claim to their time, their work, their participation and they are free to leave -
    with expected difficulties from doing so obviously that sadly annoys everyone.

    This is not extortion or terrorism with you deliberately trying to keep the bickering going.
    You're free to leave as well - do so. But please stop behaving exactly as you accuse them of.
    If that where the case, i'd be in the right to have every rule design, sticky threads, hotseat creation i made removed. Would leave Westeros a baron wasteland for one, and two it ain't possible because it was all staff related work, no different to anything they've stolen

    What they have done, is terrorism and i won't justify it by calling it anything but that.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    You are in the right to do most of those things should you please, things whom are not players choosing to migrate or people choosing to host their own games elsewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    To those individuals that wanted to cause as much harm for their childish, petty, pathetic little ego's, congratulations, you win, now kindly leave my life alone.
    Please heed your own words over diving back in and smearing more dung everywhere.
    Don't be a prick, don't be a whiny little child - Stop White Genocide and Praise Jesus.

    Very nice, Getting a good picture everybody? So we look nice and handsome and thin? Thank you. -The God Emperor, creating world peace and unforgettable memes
    https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/statu...48737210662912 <-- Unforgettable face.

  15. #15
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithridate View Post
    You are in the right to do most of those things should you please, things whom are not players choosing to migrate or people choosing to host their own games elsewhere.Please heed your own words over diving back in and smearing more dung everywhere.
    We both love the truth Mith, if he comes in any public thread acting pious, i'll make corrections to what is the truth, even if it means i have to deal with Hannibal spamming that report button and having the dribblers following my online activity continuously.

  16. #16
    cowcow's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    I don't understand how at 3am cst you write something like "leave my life alone" then come talking about terrorism because a group of players left a video game forum. That is childish.

  17. #17
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by cowcow View Post
    I don't understand how at 3am cst you write something like "leave my life alone" then come talking about terrorism because a group of players left a video game forum. That is childish.
    Oh i wish they had just left and stayed wherever they went. Would of made life so much simpler, and was also fixable. This nonsense from Hader, isn't fixable.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    We both love the truth Mith, if he comes in any public thread acting pious, i'll make corrections to what is the truth, even if it means i have to deal with Hannibal spamming that report button and having the dribblers following my online activity continuously.
    I think Joe was fairly on point with his post, right to be angry too. But I don't see Jadli continuing to stirr the pot so to speak which as far as I am concerned - pot-stirring having been most of the issue throughout this over people trying to actually work with each other.

    It does not matter anymore, if people initially were rightly or wrongly angry - let it go.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Don't be a prick, don't be a whiny little child - Stop White Genocide and Praise Jesus.

    Very nice, Getting a good picture everybody? So we look nice and handsome and thin? Thank you. -The God Emperor, creating world peace and unforgettable memes
    https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/statu...48737210662912 <-- Unforgettable face.

  19. #19
    joerock22's Avatar Leader of Third Age HS
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    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Okay, this needs to stop. Parafix, yours is one of those responses that I described as "mean-spirited or generally uncalled for." I asked Jadli to get off his soapbox, and now I have to ask you to do the same.

  20. #20
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit

    Well currently Joe is the White Knight standing on a battlefield surrounded by fallen comrades trying to fight off absurd notions put forward with the intention of pleasing the bad guys. Let's just hope he continues to use his shield in defense and never comes to the point of drawing steel. (I'd pay good money to see him pick up the stick)
    Quote Originally Posted by joerock22 View Post
    Okay, this needs to stop. Parafix, yours is one of those responses that I described as "mean-spirited or generally uncalled for." I asked Jadli to get off his soapbox, and now I have to ask you to do the same.
    Merely responding to people, feel free to lock the thread

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