Desert Kingdoms DLC

[KAM 2150]

Guys, keep in mind that we have those factions already overhauled so we will not be adding Ramzes II era chariots to Numidia and other weird ideas.

Women are already present in some units in DeI, like Nomadic units or Takshila.

My main isse with it is that resources were spent by CA to develop things that will have small impact on overal gameplay while most important stuff like not working formation, phalanx unit targetting, ships unable to land etc. will not be covered.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Seriously, would it kill CA to implement a family tree system? In Warhammer it makes sense because you're not really building a long term dynasty. But it's pure insanity not to include that in a historical title. And now that they've shown their revisiting content for Rome 2................just, why not include it? Did anyone ask for Bandits to be included? The decision making process (even from a monetary standpoint) is downright bizarre at CA.

Yeah like the care.

My main isse with it is that resources were spent by CA to develop things that will have small impact on overal gameplay while most important stuff like not working formation, phalanx unit targetting, ships unable to land etc. will not be covered.

You know they will never fix them. Because they are actually bugs not features, they don't wanna fix things, they just wanna dlc us to death and milk Rome 2 till the end of time...

[Vladdy Daddy]

Guys, keep in mind that we have those factions already overhauled so we will not be adding Ramzes II era chariots to Numidia and other weird ideas.

Women are already present in some units in DeI, like Nomadic units or Takshila.

My main isse with it is that resources were spent by CA to develop things that will have small impact on overal gameplay while most important stuff like not working formation, phalanx unit targetting, ships unable to land etc. will not be covered.

Why don't you contact Jim Sterling about this issue? He's pretty much the only videogames journalist that dares to tackle these dirty corporation practices in videogame world. If you don't know him, watch his channel on youtube, especially the Jimquisition episodes.
CA is obviously aware of your mod (they even named the first DLC after a long time "Empire Divided" ffs!), the next DLC consists of content you already delivered for free, trying to piggyback your work and daring to monetize it instead of repairing the AI and all that stuff that is hardcoded and made Rome 2 vanilla such a mess. It's about time you contact that guy and let the truth be known, because this is why CA and Sega are lazy and not improving their work and, furthermore, this is why videogames are nowadays becoming the drizzling , poorly optimized and filled with loot boxes. Don't stay quiet, man, because you, Dresden and all the guys in this wonderful mod team know exactly what's beneath the hood of this game and all the hard work it took to make this mod and turn Rome 2 from chicken to chicken salad for everybody. Please, don't stay quiet!

[Geffalrus]

Seriously, would it kill CA to implement a family tree system? In Warhammer it makes sense because you're not really building a long term dynasty. But it's pure insanity not to include that in a historical title. And now that they've shown their revisiting content for Rome 2................just, why not include it? Did anyone ask for Bandits to be included? The decision making process (even from a monetary standpoint) is downright bizarre at CA.

[Geffalrus]

@Tiny: I'll actually respond to you because you're being polite.

We're actually in agreement about what happens when - ceteris paribus - a man and a woman are put head to head in a physical confrontation. The point I'm trying to make is that things are rarely perfectly equal. This goes for men vs. women but also men vs. men. The edge goes to whoever has the training/exercise advantage. That's why I said a force of women who have gone through military training will defeat a force of men who have not. It's only when both have similar amounts that the biological advantages of men vs. women come into play.

Let me put it to you another way. I'm mostly talking about Royal Guard units here because those are the feasible state-funded forces that would allow women to access the training to compete with men. As a king, is your priority to have a Guard that can defeat other Royal Guards head to head? Or is it to have a Guard that is loyal to you in the face of civil unrest and/or palace intrigue? Seeing as how pitching your Royal Guard against an enemy's was actually fairly rare, that advantage is not as large as some might think.

[alhoon]

@Tiny: I'll actually respond to you because you're being polite.

We're actually in agreement about what happens when - ceteris paribus - a man and a woman are put head to head in a physical confrontation. The point I'm trying to make is that things are rarely perfectly equal. This goes for men vs. women but also men vs. men. The edge goes to whoever has the training/exercise advantage. That's why I said a force of women who have gone through military training will defeat a force of men who have not. It's only when both have similar amounts that the biological advantages of men vs. women come into play.

Let me put it to you another way. I'm mostly talking about Royal Guard units here because those are the feasible state-funded forces that would allow women to access the training to compete with men. As a king, is your priority to have a Guard that can defeat other Royal Guards head to head? Or is it to have a Guard that is loyal to you in the face of civil unrest and/or palace intrigue? Seeing as how pitching your Royal Guard against an enemy's was actually fairly rare, that advantage is not as large as some might think.

I'll be kinda sort:
- Women are way less strong than men
- If you have to spend time and effort on the strongest 5% of women (i.e. royal guard training), you're much better training the strongest 5% of men.
- Women give birth so they are (IMO of course) more "valuable" to keep alive. A (non monogamous) society with 10000 women and 7000 men alive produces (I think) more babies than a society with 8500 women and 8500 men alive.
Those said:
- All those don't really matter to me, it's not the only historical inaccuracy of the game
- I like strong women characters. In movies, in series, in games. I would totally love to ahistorically have female faction leaders and generals and ahistorical women royal guards.
- R2TW being a game, and since I play games to enjoy myself and not to learn social history of antiquity, I like that they put women there.\
- Don't mistake me for a feminist please. I am a shallow male that likes women and especially strong female characters that kick butt.

[Bandaro123]

I'm really disgusted with their whole politics. A shame companies like CA or Paradox have such DLC strategy, what the hell. At least I'm not really interested in this area, so they can count me out buying this crap. Fortunately, lastly, it's only Rome 2 long after release i have bought from this company.

[Geffalrus]

@sobchak: That 2015 study is highly controversial and has some deeply flawed methodologies. You can read more on that here: https://www.military.com/daily-news/...ion-study.html, and here: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...d-gender-units


Key excerpts: "the study also showed that some women excelled during tests such as hiking quickly with heavy loads and firing artillery under simulated enemy attack, while mixed marine units showed superior morale and problem-solving and better discipline than units composed only of male marines."


As well as: "Furthermore, though the report found all-male units were better at hiking, shooting, gorge-crossing and cliff-climbing, and males suffered fewer injuries, in one section of tests a mixed-sex unit out-marched three all-male units, progressing at five kilometres an hour (kph). The marine corps requirement is 4kph, carrying heavy packs and equipment."

[sobchack]

@sobchak: That 2015 study is highly controversial and has some deeply flawed methodologies. You can read more on that here:

its more so controversial to civilians who have never served as opposed to experienced soldiers. at least thats at least been my experience.

Key excerpts: "the study also showed that some women excelled during tests such as hiking quickly with heavy loads and firing artillery under simulated enemy attack, while mixed marine units showed superior morale and problem-solving and better discipline than units composed only of male marines."

SOME being the key word. aka women that meet the average male standard are very rare. As for discipline, maybe within the context of the study, but from my experience mix gendered units have the huge obstacle of sexual relations that develop. In other words its hard to keep order and discipline when private "so and so" is sleeping with sergeant "such and such". Its almost impossible trying to keep groups of young and fit 20 somethings from this behavior.

As well as: "Furthermore, though the report found all-male units were better at hiking, shooting, gorge-crossing and cliff-climbing, and males suffered fewer injuries, in one section of tests a mixed-sex unit out-marched three all-male units, progressing at five kilometres an hour (kph). The marine corps requirement is 4kph, carrying heavy packs and equipment."

you're cherry picking data right here, the quote even says that all male units are better at marching. anomalies happen in data analysis all the time. thats why statisticians don't pay attention to outliers and look at large sample groups

[Dresden]

Lots of people are reporting posts here, remember to keep things to a civil discussion. This isn't targetted at the most recent posts, just in general.

Lets try to keep the thread on topic of the DLC content and not CA or the general DLC practices. Thanks.

[Juzu90]

What i have been disliking for longer time is the fact that they sell you unfinished games and you have to wait for year or two that modders aka the community finishes the work that the developers should have done ages ago.Community does this basically for free.After everything is fine and dandy with the mod the corporation comes and ruins everything after they have almost abandoned the games development and left it to fans.´´Hey nice that you guys modded the game to make it a lot better than we could ever could of care,but guess what we need more money and we came up with this nice dlc nothing necessery to improve the gameplay but it is a nice add-on for lets say 14.99 and your mods compability goes to the trash bin have fun making it work´´.I have always utilized steam sales when buying stuff but im paying more and more of the same game i have owned for years.How much have you spended money on rtw 2 alone think about it.

[Geffalrus]

@alhoon: Just to reiterate, I've already indicated that the situation in which I think this would be plausible is one of societal upheaval, examples being massive war losses, civil unrest, or too rapid conquest expansion. I specifically mention those because they would put the kingdom/faction/player in a situation where they would either not want to, or not be able to, call on the best men available. If loyalty is what you need, and you question the loyalty of the best men, and think that training a crack battalion of women will result in a guard with better loyalty, then that's a perfectly reasonable course of action. Again, I'm talking about situations with plenty of historical precedents for gender role upheaval. I'm not saying that the Romans should have used female legions. I'm saying that there are not-completely-uncommon situations where female soldiers make sense.

It is frustrating that people keep thinking I'm talking about replacing men as the primary warriors in a society with no context or justification. There are situations where women could have - and did - larger roles to play in the military (beyond camp follower). Who fights in a society is heavily dependent on the socioeconomic factors affecting that society. In certain situations, the rich will do a lot of the fighting. In others, the rich will not fight and instead rely on the poor or on mercenaries. You all know this. What I have said all along is that there are situations where recruiting some number of women soldiers would make sense. Some times the reason is because of desperation. Some times the reason is because the leader values some trait other than brawn. But there are reasons.

And that is NOT to say that that has anything to do with CA's design decisions. Maybe CA includes female warriors to appeal to women. Maybe they include them to give dudes something to ogle during the 30 seconds an average Vanilla game takes to resolve. Maybe they did it just to annoy the community. Maybe they're bored? Maybe we'll never know for sure?

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Guys I believe we should really move on...This DLC has many more issues, but also some potential.
Let's talk about something else. I believe we have exhausted the women issue, haven't we ?

[Vardano]

What is the potential of this DLC? I clearly see where is potential of this DLC for CA.
Anyway, I have all DLC for Rome II except of Beasts of War and Daughters of Mars. I also did not buy ED and won't buy this one too.

I also wonder if I would have Nabataea campaign going on and CA would lock that faction with new DLC, could I continue it if I won't buy DLC?

[Dresden]

What is the potential of this DLC? I clearly see where is potential of this DLC for CA.
Anyway, I have all DLC for Rome II except of Beasts of War and Daughters of Mars. I also did not buy ED and won't buy this one too.

I also wonder if I would have Nabataea campaign going on and CA would lock that faction with new DLC, could I continue it if I won't buy DLC?

I honestly don't know but I am pretty sure it will just keep you from starting new campaigns as those factions.

[Ritter-Floh]

i have a vision - they announce another DLC with an indian faction as next

[Nordling]

i have a vision - they announce another DLC with an indian faction as next

[Eddie 4]

i have a vision - they announce another DLC with an indian faction as next

I have an even better idea for CA.
Roman axillary units dlc!!

[Don_Diego]

I have an even better idea for CA.
Roman axillary units dlc!!

No way! Hands off my auxiliaries!!!

[Eddie 4]

No way! Hands off my auxiliaries!!!

Ι believe you are aware of the whole controversy about Shakespeare and that some other guy actually wrote his plays..

Thats what you will be when CA releases Roman Auxillaries dlc for just 19.99..
The other guy!!!!