Desert Kingdoms DLC

[Jim_Riley]

Hey, Ryse is still a pretty decent game regardless Their artwork is great too!

Anyway, I remember thinking immediately how DEI covers these factions already and most importantly...for FREE and with an increased effort toward historical accuracy.

[skillfultree]

I think you're taking this FLC a little too seriously. It's not like vanilla Rome 2 is the most historical game anyway. And hey, we finally get Cleopatra as a faction leader which is something I've been wanting for a very long time.

[Vardano]

I'm all for accuracy and I'm a bit glad when they add real stuff with Cleopatra or Zenobia, but other than that those DLC's are bad jokes. I have a question: what women generals do you know of that time period? What was their number in the ratio of men? And what is the reason of releasing such DLC as Daughters of Mars? Why add fantasy stuff to a title they call "historical"?

I'm sorry if I'm expressed myself in a harsh manner but I'm having enough of all of this. It is not much about what they do but what they don't do. How about to add a family tree and fix some odd battle behaviors, explain why they removed many kill animations, explain why your diplomats getting killed if you send them to an ally and so on. Instead we have this type crap again.

[LinusLinothorax]

I have a question: what women generals do you know of that time period?

"(...)Candace, queen of the Ethiopians in our time, a masculine woman, and who had lost an eye. (...) In the mean time Candace attacked the garrison with an army of many thousand men." -Strabo 17.1.54

This passage would have referred to either queen Amanirenas or Amanishakheto, while attacking Primis (Qasr Ibrim). In Meroitic Kush, queens had the same position as kings, and therefore could have led armies themselves as well. So Kush is, together with the Scythians and Sarmatians, the only culture in R2 where female generals actually make sense. Whole female units are fantasy trash tho.

[Alannon]

I was actually sceptical about the DLC before I found out that they'll deepen the politics and allow for marriages between faction leaders at last. (Zenobia ought to marry Aurelian, even though he's an old man, but they'd make an ultimate couple)

Having a few female generals here and there could also be entertaining. However unhistorical, I think the option should be there. Besides, I suppose they'll be available through random events? So if you choose to have a general out of a woman, maybe it'll punish you with public order for a few turns or something like that - could be interesting. All in all, I doubt you'll be forced to hire female generals, yet if you will somehow have an option to - why not, it's up to you anyway, how much you want the women to lead armies.

And there definately should be female leaders. I remember I had such in Attila - my male heirs all died, so a widow queen was left to reign and obviously, because I couldn't make a general out of her, everyone would rebel against her constantly because of her low influence.

[BenSwolo]

Oh god a Faction Lock DLC.
I am at a loss of word for this disgrace,not sure to laugh at the coincidental absurdity or to cry at the regession of content
The patch is reversible...right?

[bampot]

I almost never post, just read, but the fact they have literally stolen your ideas and made them pay-to-unlock is such a slap in the face it's brought me out of my cave.

It's your intellectual property - although they could of course hit back that modding is a use of their intellectual property anyway and we'll just have to deal with it.

Is it maybe an idea for the DeI team to send them a nicely-worded email saying "listen, I know it's your game and all, but we did originally develop these factions, so could you please let DeI players continue to play them without the DLC? After all, we did not take any ideas or inspiration from your DLC"... something along those lines? Might work, might not. Maybe worth a try though.

Obligatory thanks for making such an amazing mod by the way. It's literally the only game I've been playing for once. The arcadey, simplified direction TW games have been going in lately have been really disappointing, but having a mod like DeI where we can get both the modern engine / graphics combined with old-skool complex mechanics is awesome.

[Dresden]

Its a bit bizarre how they picked our exact factions we have had for years in the mod to now be DLC locked. Seems like long odds that is a coincidence. A paranoid person might say they are using the mods popularity and development yet again to sell product. Add it to the list of changes piled into vanilla over the years that were originally content from mods.

Just off the top of my head: GC seasons, resource buildings, minor town forum chains, multiple town type options, skill trees, specific playables, later century campaign like constantine, streamlined recruitment buildings, and thats just to name a few. Any recognition for those modders inspiring any of that work? Nah...

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Its a bit bizarre how they picked our exact factions we have had for years in the mod to now be DLC locked. Seems like long odds that is a coincidence. A paranoid person might say they are using the mods popularity and development yet again to sell product. Add it to the list of changes piled into vanilla over the years that were originally content from mods.

Just off the top of my head: GC seasons, resource buildings, minor town forum chains, multiple town type options, skill trees, specific playables, later century campaign like constantine, streamlined recruitment buildings, and thats just to name a few. Any recognition for those modders inspiring any of that work? Nah...

Υou can't blame them for that. They recognized modders and their work. By removing them from mod squad.

and Desert Pikemen. lel

Ι have another one from Vardano's post.
Womataphracts with bows...

[Dago Red]

Just off the top of my head: GC seasons, resource buildings, minor town forum chains, multiple town type options, skill trees, specific playables, later century campaign like constantine, streamlined recruitment buildings, and thats just to name a few. Any recognition for those modders inspiring any of that work? Nah...

You are not imagining this. CA did the same from the start, pulling ideas from Rome Total realism in subsequent releases, and took new concepts introduced by mods like A Proper Empire (E:TW) in releases after that, some of which you can see in Rome2 vanilla, though they're all streamlined cartoon versions. Who knows what else was influenced over the years that I never played. Of course, modders borrowed ideas from those mods too, along with Europa Barbarorum, Broken Crescent, etc. It's only natural to some extent, but with CA pulling talent from TWC the whole time too -- Lusted, etc, it's all painfully obvious.

It would sit better with me, and probably everyone, if they came to you guys and said:

1. They were inspired by your work and told you a little bit of their plans, exchanged some info that you guys could use.

2. Even better if they added an invitation trip to visit CA and get some freebies for the team.

3. Better still if they offered some kind of modest consulting fee to the team. This gets complicated though because there are other mod teams involved in what DeI became.

[Ostrogoth]

Does this DLC adds anything worthy for DeI player other than mandatory paywall?

[drillmaster]

Does this DLC adds anything worthy for DeI player other than mandatory paywall?

Thats the number one question that should have been asked.

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[Vladdy Daddy]

First it's Empire Divided, now this. Seriously, this issue needs to be the next subject on Jim Sterling's Jimquisition.

[Alannon]

Well, maybe it'll bring some new nice models, we'll see. Empire Divided added some very, very nice-looking helmets and horse armours, with better textures than the old vanilla ones. Maybe here they'll add stuffs too!

[Geffalrus]

As a card carrying SJW, I'll just drop in my .02 cents. ;-)

Historical accuracy is all well and good, but let's keep in mind that historical accuracy starts to go out the window on turn 2. Once you as the player start making historically different decisions, you crank the butterfly effect up to 11. All aspects of history will radically change - especially when you start conquering the world as Colchis (the time space continuum has no idea how to process a Colchian Empire). Whatever gender relationships existed prior to your meteoric rise to power, the geopolitical tidal waves resulting from your toppling of the Seleucid Empire and 8 separate burnings of Rome (ROME CAN NEVER BE BURNED ENOUGH) are bound to shift things a bit.

What are some plausible situations where female soldiers/generals/leaders would make sense? Here are a couple:

1) Your society's military is so taxed by continual defeats, losses in battle, or migration that relying on only men prevents you from fielding the 20-40,000 person strong armies that the Romans throw at you every season. If Spartans can open the military up to Perioikoi and Helots, if the Ptolemies can open the phalanx up to the Machimoi, and Romans can expand citizenship beyond Italy, then it's not completely impossible that a culture in this time period could have become desperate enough to conscript women into the military.

2) Loyalty. If you're the ruler of a kingdom where women have few military or political rights, then being the first king to grant some women military or political rights will earn you some high loyalty female generals or soldiers. Similar to how kingdoms would utilize foreign contingents (Galatians, Judeans, etc) as royal guards because those foreigners lacked local connections. The primary connection of those contingents would be to the ruler who paid them, a key thing during civil unrest. And after seeing Black Panther this weekend, I DEFINITELY want my own guard of Dora Milaje, that's for sure.

Of course you shouldn't be forced to use female units/leaders if you don't want to. Enforce all the gender rules you want, mighty tyrant. ;-)

Let's just be careful about saying that women COULD NOT have been participants in military and politics in this era. Whatever the literal historical record might be on this subject (and that record has giant holes in it), you as the player are creating a new record. Many things are possible.

[Little Legionaire]

What CA doesn't understand is Total War fans changed in many ways as the mods, modders and community had a long way in terms of gameplay, historical accuracy, references and such. Practically the community is way ahead of CA content creation for historical titles. If you give a Corinthian helmet for a Numidian unit see what happens and how people react!

And it's a nice thing to have such a community for game developer as well as the modders. I enjoyed many great feedback and inspiration directly from the fans and friends and community. But it seems developers somehow overlook that fact and tells us another story with cataphract african woman warriors, fantasy bows, camel panzers and such. TBH, i don't know what to say about it. This DLC leaves me speechless.

For years total war gamers praised, supported and become even part of such mods who favoured the realism and authenticity. Largely accepted, approved and played by thousands. This is a solid direction to pursue.

I don't know whois behind of this DLC idea but it smells purely promotional stuff to catch the Black Panther trend. Well, good luck with that

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Are they planning to release a new patch as well?

(I guess the female leaders thing could bring some new problems for the mods)

They will release a new patch of course and that will affect DEI. They will also lock (as DLC only) factions that are fully fleshed in DEI.

What CA doesn't understand is Total War fans changed in many ways as the mods, modders and community had a long way in terms of gameplay, historical accuracy, references and such. Practically the community is way ahead of CA content creation for historical titles. If you give a Corinthian helmet for a Numidian unit see what happens and how people react!

And it's a nice thing to have such a community for game developer as well as the modders. I enjoyed many great feedback and inspiration directly from the fans and friends and community. But it seems developers somehow overlook that fact and tells us another story with cataphract african woman warriors, fantasy bows, camel panzers and such. TBH, i don't know what to say about it. This DLC leaves me speechless.

For years total war gamers praised, supported and become even part of such mods who favoured the realism and authenticity. Largely accepted, approved and played by thousands. This is a solid direction to pursue.

I don't know whois behind of this DLC idea but it smells purely promotional stuff to catch the Black Panther trend. Well, good luck with that

I couldn't agree more brother.

[Nordling]

They will release a new patch of course and that will affect DEI. They will also lock (as DLC only) factions that are fully fleshed in DEI.

While many players critised CA for bringing new ED DLC to R2TW saying that it will break countless mods, I was defending them by saying that they bring new stuff and that it was a large mod with new features and that it adds new experience to the game itself by also affecting GC.

I cannot say nothing like it this time. They just took your ideas (I guess its obvious here, by picking exactly 4 factions which you guys polished) and put them behind paywall. This is really just wrong and I'm getting more and more frustrated with their policy. Game is 5 yo and they see exactly what's going on - DEI is extremely popular and therefore saw an opportunity for easy cash.

@Geffalrus - this is reallh far-fetched what you are suggesting. Following your logic, I should be able to recruit camels while playing Rome because I decided on turn 5 that I want to start importing them for my armies and wars with Gauls. Let's stick to facts and the facts are that CA gives us armored camels and women with longbows & breastplates/cuirasses looking like tank tops and surprise, suprise! - they wear no helmets
(screenshot can be found somewhere in the thread). Why stop there? Let's give legions axes as primary weapon because in my campaign there was no Gaius Marius but Gaius Darius and he decided to equip legionnairies with axes and aspis shields.
Let's keep the discussion on a reasonable level, please

[Geffalrus]

@Nordling: Clearly you don't understand what I was suggesting. I'll try and use smaller words next time.

[Nordling]

@Nordling: Clearly you don't understand what I was suggesting. I'll try and use smaller words next time.

Clearly you don't understand that while there is huge flexibility in the game and that you essentiallly are shaping history there are still some limitations and restrictions. And one of those is that women were considered as lesser to men both in mind and body. That is why it was much harder for them to obtain a notable position within the society, especially in politics & military. They could obviously seduce & manipulate men (as they do until foday ) but it was young boys that were sent to schools and academies, not young girls.

And women-only battalions is just pure fantasy. They may have been such cases in history but not to any significant extent. So if we stay in land of fairy-tales then I want to see axe-wielding legionnairies. Maybe you should rethink your words next time, not necessarily use smaller ones.