A Guide for Guilds

[DarkKnight]

This is the trigger

Trigger 0196_Governor_Chivalry
    WhenToTest SettlementTurnStart

    Condition GovernorAttribute Chivalry > 4

    Guild woodsmens_guild s  5 
    Guild knights_of_santiago_chapter_house s  5 
    Guild st_johns_chapter_house s  5

If the governors chivalry is 5 or greater, then it satisfies the condition of chivalry > 4. Higher chivalry governors do not give more than the standard 5 points per turn. My best guess is that you had another general in the city so the chivalric governor was not acting as the "governor" since the other general was better at management.

You get a +25 points for creating the crusade. I am not exactly sure about whether the way your crusade ended triggering the -25 trigger. But normally these conditions do not discriminate, so I would guess that it does trigger the -25. But all that would do is offset the bonus gained from starting the crusade. That still doesn't explain the governor issue for 30 turns.

Was 30 turns literally how long it was? Or are you just trying to estimate, in which case you may have just been a couple turns away from triggering if your estimated well above the actual number.

The Intrepid Explorer ancillary improves movement by 3. If your general ends its turn in a city with an explorers guild (house, master or hq) then there is a 5% chance of acquiring the ancillary. Having a higher level of the guild does not improve the chance.

[darox]

Thanks for the thorough reply. That's good to know with the Intrepid Explorer. I am indeed getting that one from time to time, so it seems to work fine. I'm just a little confused because of the apparent 'faction wide' bonus (from the HQ) which I haven't really noticed as such.

Now as for the Knights of Santiago, yes it was indeed literally ~30 turns. My first King's daughter married a pretty decent guy who was already in his late 30's. I think he already had the 5 chivalry points from the onset or I used him in battle to increase it. Either way though, he had them when I moved him into Toledo around the age of 44. I'm pretty sure of this, since I even checked the city a turn later or so looking at his age and chiv because I was deliberately aiming for that guild. The char was also the only governor through out this time and died peacefully at the usual age of around 60. So yeah, the only way he might have missed that mark is that while the crusade as such was successful, the bonus points were again subtracted for not actually reaching (?) or conquering the target. Along with the normalisation points that could explain it. Following his death I moved my high chiv king into Toledo as governor. But if there's no additional bonus points for more chivalry and piety doesn't count at all, he can't really have had an advantage over the former but never less I was able to build the guild a few turns later.

I doubt bugs played into it but to include all facts the triggers seemed a little odd in that game. For one the first crusade was called fairly late and wasn't aimed at the usual target Jerusalem but elsewhere. The earthquake triggers were also a bit out of line. Of course they're supposed to be random and can theoretically happen constantly, but in this game I had like dozen whereas usually I'd suffer one at the most. Another odd thing was that one of these random quakes killed the exact amount of soldiers each time, even when I refreshed the random seed through the usual means. Not sure if this is normal or not. But maybe something was indeed wrong with the triggers in that game?

Anyway, I'm thinking about starting a new Spanish campaign and if possible I'll try to repeat the issue.

[Jahoo]

Hello there.
Thanks for the whole guide, its the best written guide on this forum IMO. It covers a lot and is very clear and easy to read.
I have a few questions tho.
I wanted to make Teutonic Knights Chapter House only available in Castles. I changed

teutonic_knights_minor_ch requires factions { hre, }

to

teutonic_knights_minor_ch castle requires factions { hre, }

and for other guild levels. It seems to work fine and the game doesn't crash, but error log shows

22:23:18.171 [data.invalid] [error] Target building level not allowed: The Holy Roman Empire, fortress -> city, guild_teutonic_knights_chapter_house[0](teutonic_knights_minor_ch) -> guild_teutonic_knights_chapter_house[0](teutonic_knights_minor_ch)

22:23:18.171 [data.invalid] [error] Target building level not allowed: The Holy Roman Empire, citadel -> city, guild_teutonic_knights_chapter_house[0](teutonic_knights_minor_ch) -> guild_teutonic_knights_chapter_house[0](teutonic_knights_minor_ch)

22:23:18.171 [data.invalid] [error] Target building level not allowed: The Holy Roman Empire, citadel -> city, guild_teutonic_knights_chapter_house[1](teutonic_knights_major_ch) -> guild_teutonic_knights_chapter_house[1](teutonic_knights_major_ch)

22:23:18.171 [data.invalid] [error] Target building level not allowed: The Holy Roman Empire, citadel -> city, guild_teutonic_knights_chapter_house[2](teutonic_knights_hq) -> guild_teutonic_knights_chapter_house[2](teutonic_knights_hq)

1. Any ideas on what I should change to clear the log? Might that be conected with the "convert_to guild_teutonic_knights_chapter_house" entry?

2. What is this "convert_to" entries? And the number that follows?

3. Also what might be the capability entry for building increasing the expierience for ships? The "navy_bonus" given in the admirality building gives expierience for ships with guns only...

4. How do I delete buildings? I just delated the whole building siege group for cities and was given crash and error log:
22:49:20.546 [script.err] [error] Script Error in roadtojerusalem/data/export_descr_buildings.txt, at line 1591, column 1
Expected '}', found 'building'
So this sounds like I went the "barbarian hammer way" too much.

Thank you very much in advance.
I ask all this here because it seems every building questions in forum sends the "asker" to this thread.
Regards

[Zaknafien]

Is there a known limit for number of guilds in game? Or can we add X amount of new guilds?

[DarkKnight]

@Jahoo

1. I believe you have the building converting to a building that has higher prerequisites.

2. The convert_to function says what building it changes to when you convert a city to a castle or vice versa. The corresponding number is the level of that building you want to convert to.

3. If you can't find any that work in the existing entries you could trying doing it with traits. Have a trait be triggered when the guild is constructed and it gives all admirals an extra command.

4. You have to delete the building entries from the other files, not just the EDB (see the add a new guild section of the tutorial). Pretty much do the guide in reverse.

Is there a known limit for number of guilds in game? Or can we add X amount of new guilds?

I've only created and tested 1 additional guild. I'm not sure if there is a maximum number that it can handle. There is only one way to find out and that would require a zealous modder with a little bit of extra time on his hands.

[AdLi]

Is there any way to see how much more points a settlement needs?

[darox]

That I'd like to know as well. I wasn't able to repeat the KoS issue since I took the crusade target but I've run into a new problem and thus I'd too like to know what AdLi asked and another thing, when one rejects a guild offer to build in a certain town how does it affect it's future offers in that settlement?

I got the horsebreeder's guild offered a couple of times but I turned them down. Now though I want one for my princess and other agents to get some horses to ride on, so I've actively tried to get one in Marrakesh (through races and recruiting Jinetes. I also want an explorer's guild for one of my provinces, because of the navigator ancillary. Lastly, although I've already got one, I thought about a second swordsmith guild in Algiers and have likewise built mass buildings and loads of sword units, disbanded them and built them again.

But even though I build all buildings/units necessary for either I don't get any offers (anymore! was doing fine earlier), except for the merchant's guild from time to time. Is there a global limit to the amount of guilds or something of that sort which could somehow affect this?

[english tyrant]

really helpfull thanks. +rep

[Sinan]

This is GREAT ! Thank you.

I have a question: does anyone know if the Merchants Guild ACTUALLY increases trade income. I think it does'nt, it says it does in the game files, and in the descriptive text but I've not noticed any difference.

Salute !

[Grand Inquisitor]

Is it possible to create military guild with new units? For example making a new knightly order?

[Garnier]

Could someone who has unpacked the game PM me the descr_guilds file please? I want to make some changes for my LTC addon to balance things, but I don't want to unpack for this one file..

If this is illegal.. I guess I will not change that file.

[Trajan]

Could someone who has unpacked the game PM me the descr_guilds file please? I want to make some changes for my LTC addon to balance things, but I don't want to unpack for this one file..

If this is illegal.. I guess I will not change that file.

That's illegal. We cannot share any unmodified files here. I think you can use the unpacker to grab one file. Not sure but check out the unpacker readme.

[darox]

This is GREAT ! Thank you.

I have a question: does anyone know if the Merchants Guild ACTUALLY increases trade income. I think it does'nt, it says it does in the game files, and in the descriptive text but I've not noticed any difference.

Salute !

But it does, there should be a difference before and after building the guild in city income. I got about 100-200 florins per upgrade. Although it would be helpful if we'd actually see the effects of the guild(s) in the details window.

On a sidenote, does anyone know anything about a limit on guilds? It seems there is one. It's either similar to the family (proportionate to regions), a global limit or limited to ten in general. Not sure if upgrades count or not, but in my current campaign I owned 20 regions at the time, had 11 guilds and I wasn't offered any further guilds at all! Even though I was building tons of guild pts. When I scrapped two guilds I suddenly got an offer again, so either my triggers are yet again fubar or there is some sort of limit. Pretty stupid imho.

[Sinan]

Well I will test again. Maybe it was such a small difference I did'nt notice it. Thanks for the info, now I know they DO actually do something.

I think there is a limit to the number of guilds vis vis number of settlements. Don't know for sure.

[darox]

Yeah, I suppose it depends a little on the basic trade value of the city and it's overall infrastructure development. I once ripped down the entire building (MG HQ) to see it's effect in Zaragossa and that was around 1k income. Toledo has proven to be much larger in trade and overall income, but at them moment I'm lacking a decent governor there so I can't really say how much it affects those 5-6k trade income.

As for the guild limit, if so that really sucks. I haven't quite figured out how it works yet, but it doesn't seem linked to the regions but rather to a global or numerical one. I don't really see the point of that, since it's basically just a nuisance to keep people from developing one's castles in far off regions with an additional swordsmith's guild.

[DarkKnight]

Is there any way to see how much more points a settlement needs?

Unfortunately not. The only thing you can do is try your best to keep score yourself.

Is it possible to create military guild with new units? For example making a new knightly order?

Yes. Probably the easiest way to go about this would be to clone one of the existing knightly orders and change its name in each document. Then change the affects, triggers, and text for it. Then use one of the guides to create a new unit in conjunction with this one to make the new unit the guild allows.

As for the guild limit, if so that really sucks. I haven't quite figured out how it works yet, but it doesn't seem linked to the regions but rather to a global or numerical one. I don't really see the point of that, since it's basically just a nuisance to keep people from developing one's castles in far off regions with an additional swordsmith's guild.

Bummer.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Thanks!

[darox]

Aye, I'm pretty sure now that it's not due to a global limit. I own 34 regions and have ripped down plenty of guilds to stay beneath 10 in total, but everytime I reach 10 I get no further offers. The only odd similarity here I can think of is that Spain has ten different guild houses in total. Might be interesting to note if the same limit applies to other factions who have one or two guilds more and if adding new guilds presents a tedious but possible way of avoiding the issue.

I finally got the Master Explorer Guild in Brugges and Jedda -the latter I had to rip down- through conquer, but in 3/4 of cases the AI will build a Thieves Guild so conquering guilds only has limited use. Not to mention that the AI's placing is about as questionable as that of their watchtowers. Another problem with this limit -in the late game at least- is that the game will get 'hooked' on offers to one region and neglect others, similar to marriage proposals. Aleppo and Marrakesh have probably amounted enough points to go straight to the HQ (sword/horse respectively) but instead I've been forced to turn down three offers for a KoS guild in Angers.

I dunno, maybe you want to include this info in your guide since it means people will probably want to plan their guilds wiser, which may have been the thought in the onset but in reality it's really nothing but a nuisance to the player.

[DarkKnight]

When you get to the point where it seems that you aren't getting any guilds offered even though you should be have you tried saving and reloading the game. I have a current working hypothesis that the guild system tends to break itself occassionally. While doing some of my own testing I noticed that sometimes I wouldn't be offered any guilds but when I saved and reloaded the guild would be offered (I'm talking immediately when it reloads, not the next turn). It could be that destroying the guild, as you say you have done, has the same affect in fixing the system as reloading.

There is another possibility that I have thought of. I have noticed that you only get offered one guild per turn. If two cities earn a guild the same turn, only one of them will be offered that turn. Maybe this 1 guild per turn limit is not just a local thing but a global thing. And when you progress into the game there are so many different provinces being offered guilds that it takes forever for it to be your turn to be offered the guild. This could be tested by playing hotseat and seeing if your factions ever get guilds offered on the same turn. However, I would be somewhat surprised if this theory was the case.

If your are correct about a limit of the number of houses being the number of guilds that the faction can build then we could increase this number by making a bunch of guilds with no triggers. So effectively they would just boost that number.

[darox]

So far that save/reload trick hasn't worked for me. At best I get a renewed offer at the beginning of the next turn. But yes, I agree the game tends to break it's 'flow' from time to time, not just concerning guilds but in general and in particular in regard to AI behaviour. Not sure what the cause is but I assume that one issue may be the game mechanics themselves, which rely heavily on triggers. Because there seems to be a common pattern between these and other issues and another explanation I could imagine is that guilds like proposals due to relying on triggers have a very narrow range of setting them off. So for example, when one rejects a guild offer the accumulated points remain, but for the offer to be renewed one has to trigger it by hitting the set mark again. This would explain why one sometimes gets to build a minor guild house, only to be offered the upgrades almost immediately within the next turn(s). The points seem to sum up and in marriage terms it's perhaps the age or a certain amount of years triggering it.

Global limitations are another possibility but either explanation still leaves the question why the game is so hooked on one particular city as such, just as it is constantly making marriage proposals to the same woman when a lot of others are still single. So perhaps the limitations themselves have a part in this, because as long as one has a lot of slots available for either it seems to switch fine between people and cities, as soon as one closes in on the limit though it gets 'stuck' on one particular. Adding guilds to avoid the limitations may be a little optimistic and I fear these might as well be hidden, hard coded somewhere just like the family to region numbers eg., but I guess there's no harm in keeping an eye on factions with more than ten guilds in total.