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Thread: Coward Murders Children in Florida

  1. #141
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    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Wall of fear? No I think it's the drones equipped with hellfire missiles and the US military that I would fear.
    That's highly unlikely to be used outside of a full-out civil war. Even if such weapons were used, it would be ineffective at holding territory and operating a government. They'd need ground troops, which means a gun in every house and behind every bush will be waiting for them.

    Guns are most effective at making tyranny simply too much of a hassle. The government may be able to defeat an armed rebellion, but it would be a Pyrrhic victory. They'd rather oppress the people within the limits of the law, which can be unpleasant, but certainly better than the Holocaust. Remember, most politicians are in for a few years at most. If you are aiming for wealth or fame, you're much better off being a corporate lackey than trying to restart the Third Reich.

    Guns are only a last safeguard against tyranny. Education and morality are more important, and that battle is being fought every day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I don't give a shite what the primary purpose of the 2A is. The primary purpose of the 5th Amendment was to protect private property, that was extended to slavery. Constitution worship is cowardice. That document is not perfect. The Government is not perfect. The current state of America is not perfect. We have to strive for more, for better, and anybody who gets in the way of that by citing a 300 year old document that's next to impossible to change can sod off. I don't care about the Founders' opinion. I care about what's going on in the country now and what we can do to fix it.
    If you don't like the law, there are orderly and peaceful manners of modifying it. What if Trump started to ignore the Constitutional laws about separation of powers? What if conservative states started executing Communists en masse? After all, the law is more like guidelines than actual rules.

    And no. That image is idiotic. Americans are in no danger of being oppressed nor are they currently being oppressed.
    It is often said, the Second Amendment will be exercised only when the government tries to take it away. If government has no intention of oppressing the people, they have nothing to fear from an armed populace.

    No they don't. American Law is what protects you from the Government. You know what else? Strong protections of civil society as well as safeguards against concentration of power. Guns have done jack to protect you from tyranny.
    Have you ever spent any time with a government agent? The reason they respect your rights isn't out of the goodness of their hearts. They are just afraid of violence from another person, and that person's afraid of violence from another person, and so on. That is the power of organization. They can be nice people. Nice and moral aren't the same thing, however. When push comes to shove, most will do as the Fuhrer says.

  2. #142

    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Caduet View Post
    We haven't defeated a single insurgency. The only thing we are good at is toppling governments, which does not matter when stopping an insurgency. Even the Civil War was against a government, unrecognized but the Confederacy was a thing. PLUS when you consider the insurgents would almost certainly be getting russian and chinese support the US government is absolutely doomed. Clearly america has plenty of crazies, and you only need a small cadre to keep an insurgency rolling.

    I can hardly wait to see the balkanization of the USA.
    I find your opinions so vile it's hard for me to find words adequate enough to express my disgust.

  3. #143

    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    Guns are only a last safeguard against tyranny. Education and morality are more important, and that battle is being fought every day.
    A vile lie. Only Law protected Americans from the tyranny of their own government.

    If you don't like the law, there are orderly and peaceful manners of modifying it. What if Trump started to ignore the Constitutional laws about separation of powers? What if conservative states started executing Communists en masse? After all, the law is more like guidelines than actual rules.
    A statement that has no relevance as nobody suggested a change via any other way than the legislature.

    It is often said, the Second Amendment will be exercised only when the government tries to take it away. If government has no intention of oppressing the people, they have nothing to fear from an armed populace.
    The government is not interested in protecting itself from an armed populace. The government is interested in protecting American residents from each other. As we all should be. Far too much firearm crime and a constant brick wall to any discussion about ending it via supply controls.

    Have you ever spent any time with a government agent? The reason they respect your rights isn't out of the goodness of their hearts. They are just afraid of violence from another person, and that person's afraid of violence from another person, and so on. That is the power of organization. They can be nice people. Nice and moral aren't the same thing, however. When push comes to shove, most will do as the Fuhrer says.
    Nobody conceptualizes work that way, and to suggest otherwise is inane. I work in Social Security now. Neither I nor any other government agent spends time thinking of ideological arguments as we do our job. The idea that I respect someone's rights out of fear is idiotic. I respect people's personal space and their property because I literally don't give a about it. It's normal human behavior. And stop suggesting there is an authoritarian streak in this country. There isn't. In fact we suffer from extreme decentralization of power where basic can't get done because of lack of federal authority. I had to run to three different hospitals to get simple medical history done. Because you know, it would be extremely Nazi to require hospitals to share medical history in one database.

  4. #144
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    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    A vile lie. Only Law protected Americans from the tyranny of their own government.
    What's this Law thing? Is it some kind of sentient being that magically guards people's liberty? It's only force that protects people, and an armed populace is simply the final layer of protection, once every other safeguard has failed.

    A statement that has no relevance as nobody suggested a change via any other way than the legislature.
    Okay so only Congress gets to ignore the law? Doesn't seem free to me.

    The government is not interested in protecting itself from an armed populace. The government is interested in protecting American residents from each other. As we all should be. Far too much firearm crime and a constant brick wall to any discussion about ending it via supply controls.
    Hmmm, must be a weird coincidence that the measures ostensibly meant to protect people from each other, also result in reducing their ability to protect against the government.

    Nobody conceptualizes work that way, and to suggest otherwise is inane. I work in Social Security now. Neither I nor any other government agent spends time thinking of ideological arguments as we do our job. The idea that I respect someone's rights out of fear is idiotic. I respect people's personal space and their property because I literally don't give a about it. It's normal human behavior. And stop suggesting there is an authoritarian streak in this country. There isn't. In fact we suffer from extreme decentralization of power where basic can't get done because of lack of federal authority. I had to run to three different hospitals to get simple medical history done. Because you know, it would be extremely Nazi to require hospitals to share medical history in one database.
    You respect people's rights, because your job tells you to. If your job told you to forward the names and locations of illegal immigrants, Jews, Christians, you'd likely do it. Try to get paid without doing as they say and you'll be immediately assaulted.

    Numerous people are arrested and imprisoned for victimless crimes. Not a lotta police defections. If your religion or ethnicity were made illegal, few government agents would refuse to apply the law. But if you're armed then you can put up a pretty good fight.

  5. #145

    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    What's this Law thing? Is it some kind of sentient being that magically guards people's liberty? It's only force that protects people, and an armed populace is simply the final layer of protection, once every other safeguard has failed.
    Wrong. It is Law that prevents me from unreasonable searches. It is Law that allows me to tell a LEO to off if he has no reason to stop me. It’s Law that prevents the State from invading my house. If covil society falls apart, the Gov. will be the very last of your worries, and uncivilized savages will be your first. So let’s stop perpetuating this myth of ARs stopping Nazis from coming to power.

    Okay so only Congress gets to ignore the law? Doesn't seem free to me.
    Congress would be breaking no law by instituting strict gun control. Like Ive said before, Im okay with people driving tanks around so long as there is strict regulation and barriers to posessing such deadly weaponry. There’s a reason why weapons that require going to the ATF seldom make it into the hands of criminals.

    Hmmm, must be a weird coincidence that the measures ostensibly meant to protect people from each other, also result in reducing their ability to protect against the government.
    It’s weird that it’s also irrelevant. Citizens need no protection from the Gov. in form of arms. Strong institutions and laws are what protects you from the Gov.



    You respect people's rights, because your job tells you to. If your job told you to forward the names and locations of illegal immigrants, Jews, Christians, you'd likely do it. Try to get paid without doing as they say and you'll be immediately assaulted.

    Numerous people are arrested and imprisoned for victimless crimes. Not a lotta police defections. If your religion or ethnicity were made illegal, few government agents would refuse to apply the law. But if you're armed then you can put up a pretty good fight.
    Don’t tell me why I do or do not respect people’s rights. Most people have no interest in each other’s property. I have no interest in my neighbor’s Porsche just as he has no interest in my lawnmower. And stop conflating an authoritarian government with ours. There is no comparison. Nobody is rounding up the enemies of the state.

    The issue of violentless crime and the justice system is a failure of law. Not because the victims of a flawed justice system didnt have guns. Stop bringing up tangents that have no relevance to the issue of gun rights in this country.
    Last edited by Love Mountain; February 17, 2018 at 01:29 AM.

  6. #146

    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Japanese-American citizens were rounded up and put in concentration camps 70 years ago. Compliant Native Americans were actively attacked by the US Army at the order of the President. Southern law enforcement refused to address the problems of mobs lynching African Americans. The LAPD was incapable of defending Korean neighborhoods during the race riots that took place during the 70s-90s at various times. They had to defend their own property by force from armed rioters. There's plenty of reason to own a weapon for purposes of self defense when the government actively or by omission threatens your safety.
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; February 16, 2018 at 10:51 PM.

  7. #147

    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Spoiler Alert: None of those were stopped by guns.

    Native Americans were treated as a hostile power and no guns saved them throughout centuries of conflict.

    japnese Americans wouldve been executed as treasonous conspirators at any hint of an organized armed resistance.

    Rodney King Riots only enforced what happened previously during the Jim Crow era. A race war with guns does nothing to protect one race from the racial tyranny of another. It only serves to hurt both races. Did gun violence post Reconstruction bring about racial equality from Whites? No. Did African American gun ownership help Blacks defend themselves from the tyranny of White dominated Southern Govs.? No.

    What actually ended segregation, Black Codes, and lynching? Words on paper, codified into Federal Law and we didn’t have to hold Lyndon johnson at gunpoint to do it either. Guns never and will never solve your problems with a tyrannica government. So stop bringing that stupid argument up.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Wrong. It is Law that prevents me from unreasonable searches. It is Law that allows me to tell a LEO to off if he has no reason to stop me. Itís Law that prevents the State from invading my house. If covil society falls apart, the Gov. will be the very last of your worries, and uncivilized savages will be your first. So letís stop perpetuating this myth of ARs stopping Nazis from coming to power.
    Define this "Law" thing for us. What is it and how does it protect you from tyranny? Are you sure force or people aren't involved at all?

    Congress would be breaking no law by instituting strict gun control.
    The Constitution is the law of the land and prohibits "strict gun control." Your only solutions have been, "let's just ignore the law and do whatever we want." And you say guns are dangerous to the rule of law?

    Like Ive said before, Im okay with people driving tanks around so long as there is strict regulation and barriers to posessing such deadly weaponry.
    I think you're confusing the cannon with the tank. As far as I'm aware tanks are perfectly legal to own. They're probably less dangerous than cars.

    Thereís a reason why weapons that require going to the ATF seldom make it into the hands of criminals.
    You mean besides that they are extremely less practical than typical semi-automatic handguns?

    Itís weird that itís also irrelevant. Citizens need no protection from the Gov. in form of arms. Strong institutions and laws are what protects you from the Gov.

    Donít tell me why I do or do not respect peopleís rights. Most people have no interest in each otherís property. I have no interest in my neighborís Porsche just as he has no interest in my lawnmower. And stop conflating an authoritarian government with ours. There is no comparison. Nobody is rounding up the enemies of the state.
    So you say Sukiyama. But people want insurance, just in case.

    The issue of violentless crime and the justice system is a failure of law. Not because the victims of a flawed justice system didnt have guns. Stop bringing up tangents that have no relevance to the issue of gun rights in this country.
    So you readily admit that millions of innocent people are killed or imprisoned for victimless crimes, but anyone who wants a gun for defense against the government is paranoid?

  9. #149

    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    Define this "Law" thing for us. What is it and how does it protect you from tyranny? Are you sure force or people aren't involved at all?
    The structure of our government has safeguards against a tyrannical government ever forming. There is no force required, as the government itself maintains this balance.

    The Constitution is the law of the land and prohibits "strict gun control." Your only solutions have been, "let's just ignore the law and do whatever we want." And you say guns are dangerous to the rule of law?
    The Constitution does not prohibit strict gun control. Show me where it's written in the Constitution. In direct writing. Show me.

    I think you're confusing the cannon with the tank. As far as I'm aware tanks are perfectly legal to own. They're probably less dangerous than cars.
    The cannon happens to be an integral part of the tank and stop talking about semantics. We perfectly know what I'm talking about, a tank, not a tractor. I have no issues with a tank firing live munitions owned by a military or SHTF nut who knows not to take it out in public or fire it randomly. There's an issue where any coke induced addict can buy a flamethrower and terrorize the nearest mall.

    You mean besides that they are extremely less practical than typical semi-automatic handguns?
    No, because what makes handguns "extremely more practical" is their sheer availability. Every criminal would use an SBR or a select fire machine gun if they could. But they don't because such weapons are extremely rare and carry a high price tag. In contrast to a handgun, which is less accurate, has less ammo and its only advantage is concealment and access.

    So you say Sukiyama. But people want insurance, just in case.
    I don't say. Common sense and history says. In this country Law was the only thing that protected its citizens from large scale abuses of power by the government. Gun ownership never did. And I don't care about your "insurance". I only care about it because your "insurance" tends to end up in the hands of criminals, drunks, and s. 18% of firearm crimes are done with legal guns by legal owners. Your "insurance" can go itself when there are literally thousands of firearm crimes done by "legal" owners.

    In fact, your "insurance" should only be limited to those who have shown they can be trusted with it and nobody else. Being an American and 18 doesn't mean you are ready to responsibly use a gun, and if you're whining about how the Gov. is constantly threatening your freedom at age 18, too bad. I care less about your supposed notions of Gov. tyranny than about the possibility you might shoot up a school since I know literally nothing about you. You could be a psychopath, or a bitter divorcee, or a disgruntled worker. Or, I suppose you could just be a normal and productive citizen who should have no issue proving that he is one. How offensive of me to ask that you prove it.

    So you readily admit that millions of innocent people are killed or imprisoned for victimless crimes, but anyone who wants a gun for defense against the government is paranoid?
    Guns aren't gonna save you from being tossed in a cell if you are breaking the law, regardless of how petty it is. In fact, it'll most likely worsen your sentence for resisting arrest.So yes, you are paranoid. Moreover, the only thing that'll save people from getting arrested over innocuous crap is rewriting the law, not resisting the state with a firearm. Not to mention the fact that victimless crime is not always "harmless". Many crimes classified as "victimless" are still crimes are deservedly crimes.

  10. #150

    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Glad that you agree that guns are not necessary at all then.
    It is a deterrent. Same reason why you have car alarm system even if nobody tries to steal your car every day.
    US has consistent history of winning battles... and losing wars. If US couldn't win against Taliban for almost 2 decades, I severely doubt that US government could handle an armed rebellion on its own territory, with all the strings attached.

    It's almost like you can buy a gun in Nevada and bring it into California. Crazy how statewide gun control doesn't work. It's almost as if we need to enforce law across the country.
    Its almost like guns can't be imported from abroad. You know, like it was attempted with drugs and alcohol before that. Also does not address the most important part - guns are not the issue. If some maniac makes up his mind about killing a bunch of people he could do same thing with a truck during rush hour in some urban area.

  11. #151

    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    It is a deterrent. Same reason why you have car alarm system even if nobody tries to steal your car every day.
    The Government isn't confiscating my car and it deters nobody. The only thing owning a gun will do is cause authorities to extend your sentence. The only thing firearms exist for is harming other people. Which is not a bad thing, I have a glock myself.

    US has consistent history of winning battles... and losing wars. If US couldn't win against Taliban for almost 2 decades, I severely doubt that US government could handle an armed rebellion on its own territory, with all the strings attached.
    Funny how a pro American regime is in Afghanistan. Really think American Gov. can't handle armed thugs? Please, the history of LEO is rife with crushing organized crime. It wouldn't have an issue with disorganized rednecks.

    Its almost like guns can't be imported from abroad. You know, like it was attempted with drugs and alcohol before that. Also does not address the most important part - guns are not the issue. If some maniac makes up his mind about killing a bunch of people he could do same thing with a truck during rush hour in some urban area.
    You mean where the Prohibition severely reduced alcohol consumption and access to alcohol? Seems like banning something was a smashing success. The questions of Drugs and Alcohol is one of social goals. If we are to look purely at access and consumption, then banning something will work given enough efforts.

    Also the guns we buy in America aren't made in Mexico or Canada genius. The market for guns is the States is immense. Massive amounts of guns in America are made in America and others are imported from places like China, which is separated by an ocean. A firearm ban wouldn't make guns disappear but it would make the supply situation increasingly difficult. Especially when we consider that drugs like Heroin and Cocaine are a lot easier to hide than an AR or a handgun. Less supply = higher prices for criminals.

    This is even assuming I support a ban which is not what I am arguing for. Nice try though.

  12. #152

    Default Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Assault weapons ban is useless and outright ignores the guns used in the majority of deaths involving firearms.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/s...apon-myth.html

    Handguns cause the vast majority of deaths involving firearms. Up to 80%. An assault weapons ban will not touch those.
    I disagree its useless. Since the price of AR15s has dropped to about $400-450 with bullets less than 30 cents AR15s have been increasingly used in mass shootings. And many of those incidents they would not have been able to achieve the death total without. For instance how many could Paddock have killed with handguns from his hotel perch?

    Reinstating the assault weapons ban would price the AR15s out of the hands of practically all the mass shooter types. Without that I would predict we see even more mass shootings with AR15s since they are cheap, easy to get and idolized by certain communities. Even if you don't support a complete ban do you really think there is nothing wrong with a 19 year old with documented mental health issues and police been at his home over 20 times should be able to easily buy an AR15?



    • June 20, 2012: James Eagan Holmes, 24, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber Smith and Wesson rifle with a 100-round magazine, a 12-gauge Remington shotgun and two .40-caliber Glock semi-automatic pistols to kill 12 and injure 58 at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.
    • Dec. 14, 2012: Adam Lanza, 20, used an AR-15-style rifle, a .223-caliber Bushmaster, to kill 27 people ó his mother, 20 students and six teachers ó in Newtown, Conn., before killing himself.
    • June 7, 2013: John Zawahri, 23, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber rifle and a .44-caliber Remington revolver to kill five and injure three at a home in Santa Monica, Calif., before he was killed.
    • March 19, 2015: Justin Fowler, 24, used an AR-15 to kill one and injure two on a street in Little Water, N.M., before he was killed.
    • May 31, 2015: Jeffrey Scott Pitts, 36, used an AR-15 and .45-caliber handgun to kill two and injure two at a store in Conyers, Ga., before he was killed.
    • Oct. 31, 2015: Noah Jacob Harpham, 33, used an AR-15, a .357-caliber revolver and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol to kill three on a street in Colorado Springs, Colo., before he was killed.
    • Dec. 2, 2015: Syed Rizwyan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, 28 and 27, used two AR-15-style, .223-caliber Remington rifles and two 9 mm handguns to kill 14 and injure 21 at his workplace in San Bernardino, Calif., before they were killed.
    • June 12, 2016: Omar Mateen, 29, used an AR-15 style rifle (a Sig Sauer MCX), and a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol to kill 49 people and injure 50 at an Orlando nightclub before he was killed.
    • Oct. 1, 2017: Stephen Paddock, 64, used a stockpile of guns including an AR-15 to kill 58 people and injure hundreds at a music festival in Las Vegas before he killed himself.
    • Nov. 5, 2017: Devin Kelley, 26, used an AR-15 style Ruger rifle to kill 26 people at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, before he was killed.
    • Feb. 14, 2018: Police say Nikolas Cruz, 19, used an AR-15-style rifle to kill at least 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.


    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    The US government would lose. Majority of military is more likely to side with rebels then with tyrannical government, and even if that wasn't the case, good luck fighting a war of attrition on your own territory.
    Have you even thought this through?

    Logically if the majority of the military is going to side with "the rebels" then everyone having AR15s is completely unnecessary. If you think the majority of the military will side with you what exact tyranny are you so afraid of?
    Last edited by AbdŁlmecid I; February 17, 2018 at 03:40 AM. Reason: Consecutive posts merged.

  13. #153

    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    The Government isn't confiscating my car and it deters nobody. The only thing owning a gun will do is cause authorities to extend your sentence. The only thing firearms exist for is harming other people. Which is not a bad thing, I have a glock myself.
    So what is your point then?
    Funny how a pro American regime is in Afghanistan. Really think American Gov. can't handle armed thugs? Please, the history of LEO is rife with crushing organized crime. It wouldn't have an issue with disorganized rednecks.
    Funny how pro-American regime in Afghanistan only exists as long as American troops are deployed there. US government has clearly failed to crush organized crime, which is doing pretty great to this day, not that such comparison is valid for a variety of reasons. Not to mention that a lot of US military personnel would sympathize with rebels if US government becomes tyrannical.
    You mean where the Prohibition severely reduced alcohol consumption and access to alcohol? Seems like banning something was a smashing success. The questions of Drugs and Alcohol is one of social goals. If we are to look purely at access and consumption, then banning something will work given enough efforts.

    Also the guns we buy in America aren't made in Mexico or Canada genius. The market for guns is the States is immense. Massive amounts of guns in America are made in America and others are imported from places like China, which is separated by an ocean. A firearm ban wouldn't make guns disappear but it would make the supply situation increasingly difficult. Especially when we consider that drugs like Heroin and Cocaine are a lot easier to hide than an AR or a handgun. Less supply = higher prices for criminals.

    This is even assuming I support a ban which is not what I am arguing for. Nice try though.
    Prohibition failed, as alcohol continued to be imported into US and its population consumed it.
    War on drugs failed, as drugs are being imported and actively consumed by Americans.
    Country-wide gun control would fail in the exact same way. Hell, you can now print a gun on a 3d printer.

  14. #154

    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    So what is your point then?
    We need a ruthless crackdown on trafficking of firearms. National gun registry, strict licensing, strict storage requirements. Citizens should be paranoid about keeping records of all firearm related purchases for audits. It should be difficult to get a weapon. FFLs should be monitored, and a push be made towards considering nationalizing all firearm retailers to strictly control the flow of guns and all related equipment. Firearm purchases of any kind should be scrutinized and go through a government agency for processing that'll have access to your criminal records, your medical records, your current situation, and I would argue that you can afford having an interview to discern the nature of your purchase if it is a particularly large purchase of ammo, a firearm, and so on. Yearly mental evaluations should be required and the license period should be between 4-8 years long to account for any major legislation change.

    The deadlier the weapon, the more hassle you should go through. Machine guns should be "unbanned" as the process of acquiring a firearm is now drastically longer and far more vetted anyway. As should silencers, SBRs, and any other weapon that's "banned" because it's scary. And stop the ban on AKs ffs. There's a large market for quality Russian equipment here and the Gov. is missing an opportunity for tax revenue.

    Funny how pro-American regime in Afghanistan only exists as long as American troops are deployed there. US government has clearly failed to crush organized crime, which is doing pretty great to this day, not that such comparison is valid for a variety of reasons. Not to mention that a lot of US military personnel would sympathize with rebels if US government becomes tyrannical.
    Going from we can't conquer Afghanistan to we're international thugs. Make up your mind what you want to debate about.

    Prohibition failed, as alcohol continued to be imported into US and its population consumed it.
    War on drugs failed, as drugs are being imported and actively consumed by Americans.
    Except consumption fell. Alcohol related arrests (minor charges) fell. Access dramatically fail. I'm not arguing that the prohibition was pointless. I'm arguing that bans have an excellent effect on constraining the supply of anything. Supply expanding during a ban isn't because the ban isn't effective. It's because the demand is causing the production to rise regardless. But the supply would grow faster and easier without the ban in place.

    Country-wide gun control would fail in the exact same way. Hell, you can now print a gun on a 3d printer.
    No it wouldn't. And 3d printing is in it's infancy. All current attempts at making a durable AR receiver has failed.

  15. #155
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    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sťverus SŮape View Post
    I find your opinions so vile it's hard for me to find words adequate enough to express my disgust.
    lol this is some cringey pearl-clutching
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Wrong. It is Law that prevents me from unreasonable searches. It is Law that allows me to tell a LEO to off if he has no reason to stop me. Itís Law that prevents the State from invading my house. If covil society falls apart, the Gov. will be the very last of your worries, and uncivilized savages will be your first. So letís stop perpetuating this myth of ARs stopping Nazis from coming to power.
    Actually you're wrong buddy. At Ruby Ridge, it was the Law gunning down free citizens on their own property. The Law was so egregiously out of whack that the hero Kevin Harris was acquitted for shooting and killing a US Marshal. Acquitted on the basis of self-defense while killing a LEO. And that was justice, as the Law was being tyrannical and authoritatively oppressing the Weaver family. If Harris had not been armed who knows what would have happened. The entire Weaver clan may well have been exterminated. Or maybe he should have called the cops, oh wait the cops were the ones trying to kill him, like they did to poor Sammy and Vicki Weaver, not to mention their dog as well.

    Thank god your insane proposals will never even come close to fruition, or we'd be seeing Ruby Ridge every other week. Just because some is poor or a minority should not preclude them from exercising their 2A rights. The retarded financial and time barriers you'd put on gun ownership would pretty much only prevent disadvantaged groups from owning guns. They have it hard enough as it is.

  16. #156

    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Guy fails many opportunities to cooperate with Federal Authorities. Has a shootout with LEOs that result in the majority of his family dying. What a fantastic case for the 2nd amendment.

  17. #157
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    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Why should he cooperate with them? The Law can't just harass you till you comply with their unreasonable demands. That's why we have guns.

  18. #158

    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Sťverus SŮape View Post
    Japanese-American citizens were rounded up and put in concentration camps 70 years ago. Compliant Native Americans were actively attacked by the US Army at the order of the President. Southern law enforcement refused to address the problems of mobs lynching African Americans. The LAPD was incapable of defending Korean neighborhoods during the race riots that took place during the 70s-90s at various times. They had to defend their own property by force from armed rioters. There's plenty of reason to own a weapon for purposes of self defense when the government actively or by omission threatens your safety.

    Poor example.

    For example how was a free black American citizen going to protect himself with a gun in the 19th century if racist state politicians ban their 'constitutional' right to bear arms , and flog those who try and sell their property?

    "it shall not be lawful for any free person of colour in this state, to own, use, or carry fire arms of any description whatever… that the free person of colour, so detected in owning, using, or carrying fire arms, shall receive upon his bare back, thirty-nine lashes, and that the fire arm so found in the possession of said free person of colour, shall be exposed for public sale
    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...page&q&f=false
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  19. #159

    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    How is it a poor example when one of the most victimized groups of people in American history was denied the right to carry a gun for purposes of self protection with the intention to make them more vulnerable? It does nothing but provide even more evidence that the lack of ability to carry a firearm leads to more victims and a higher body count. Why do you think the overwhelming majority of gun violence occurs in schools, theatres, churches and othet gun free areas? Why aren't there just as many attempted mass killings at gun ranges, gun shows, or places where brandishing a weapon means blending in with the crowd? Shooters don't like opposition, they like shooting up places that have the best chances of grabbing headlines.

    Why else woukd the government ban blacks from owning guns in the post war era if it wasn't to keep them in a state of semi-enslavement and incapable of effective self defense?

    Edit- though speaking of poor examples, mongrel, your statute seems to be from the ante-bellum period since it still references the existence of slaves. Given the very real fear of slave revolts against the state, of course they banned all blacks from owning firearms. If not, there's a real chance they might organize to try to free still enslaved members of their family at the least. It's impossible for me to tell at this point why you'd use this as evidence for anything related to why guns are bad. This is exactly the reason why the 2A exists with regards to government tyranny. John Brown tried tl capitalize on that soon after.
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; February 17, 2018 at 09:04 AM.

  20. #160

    Default Re: Coward Murders Children in Florida

    So, the idea is that if Japanese Americans had guns they'd get in a shoot out with the government officers that came to collect them for the camps and the government would back down?
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