Coward Murders Children in Florida

[ByzantinePowerGame]

yo i got a question: what sort of society can't protect its own children?

We are arguing about how to protect children from a statistically insignificant threat when about 40% of children are now outright obese or seriously overweight and several thousand die each year from obesity related health conditions such as cardiac problems or diabetic complications.


We can't achieve progress regarding mental health in a nation that believes it is acceptable and healthy to allow men to hack off their genitals, inject themselves with chemicals/hormones, and call themselves women.

[Aexodus]

We are arguing about how to protect children from a statistically insignificant threat when about 40% of children are now outright obese or seriously overweight and several thousand die each year from obesity related health conditions such as cardiac problems or diabetic complications.


We can't achieve progress regarding mental health in a nation that believes it is acceptable and healthy to allow men to hack off their genitals, inject themselves with chemicals/hormones, and call themselves women.

Exactly. This kind of environment plays a part (but probably not all of it) of why we see such atrocitities as children murdering children more and more. There will always be some who are mentally unfit, but we have come a long way along the insanity-ride of progressivism.

[Love Mountain]

Geographical proximity does not negate drastic social, political and economic differences, which is why US has higher crime problem then Canada, while neither US nor Canada have a gun problem, only that Canada has a problem with its gun control being unnecessarily strict in self-defense aspects.

We already had that conversation. Europe is just as diverse with twice as many people. They do not suffer from firearm crime anywhere near to the degree that the U.S. does.

Michael Moore generates emotional propaganda and harasses old actors with Alzheimers. Good luck proving that majority wants gun control.

And? His arguments have merit, unlike Ben Shapiro and legions of 2nd amendment youtubers.

http://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx
https://everytownresearch.org/2012-p...ground-checks/
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/...hip-with-guns/
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/npripsos...us-individuals


"Luck"

"Domestic" just means within US. I don't see how that disproves my point in any way shape, or form.

And what of the rest of my post?

My suggestion is more pragmatic and can actually be applied within America's legal framework, yours would be a legal and bureaucratic nightmare and would get shot down faster then ATF shooting its own agents outside Waco compound.

I did suggest pragmatic gun control. You have not addressed it whatsoever.

Exactly. This kind of environment plays a part (but probably not all of it) of why we see such atrocitities as children murdering children more and more. There will always be some who are mentally unfit, but we have come a long way along the insanity-ride of progressivism.

How many school shootings in Europe in 2017?

[Aexodus]

How many school shootings in Europe in 2017?

https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/co...us-and-europe/

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Europe has more mass shootings than America per person.

There were 27% more casualties per capita from mass public shootings in EU than US from 2009-15

The only reason there are more in the US, is that it's a larger country.

Edit: there have been 16 school shootings in Europe in the past 17 years. There were 6 in the next 17 years previous. Children are becoming more unstable in the mad world we have made for them.

[Love Mountain]

Europe has more mass shootings than America per person.

It does not, and the only reason this is a "headline" is because of the way this report "compares" America to EU only. But sure, even accepting their narrowing of the criteria, this report doesn't comment on frequency of shootings, it reports "death rates". The shootings they excluded because they are not EU countries is idiotic and stinks of headline hunting. It also clearly outlines a criteria for mass shootings, "Mass public shootings – defined as four or more people killed in a public place, and not in the course of committing another crime, and not involving struggles over sovereignty. The focus on excluding shootings that do not involve other crimes (e.g., gang fights or robberies) has been used from the original research by Lott and Landes to more recently the FBI. "

Fair enough, whatever, but this relies strictly on how countries classify crime. In short, there are methodology flaws and it doesn't even deliver the conclusion you think it does. It talks about "death rates" not number of shootings.

The only reason there are more in the US, is that it's a larger country.

Edit: there have been 16 school shootings in Europe in the past 17 years. There were 6 in the next 17 years previous. Children are becoming more unstable in the mad world we have made for them.

That makes no sense. Europe as a whole has over 700 million people, the EU alone has 500+. EU is larger and suffers from less mass shootings, firearm violence, school shootings, and pretty much everything to do with firearms. This doesn't help your argument whatsoever.

[Aexodus]

Fair enough, whatever, but this relies strictly on how countries classify crime. In short, there are methodology flaws and it doesn't even deliver the conclusion you think it does. It talks about "death rates" not number of shootings.

The left-hand picture I included is literally a comparison of the number of shootings.

That makes no sense. Europe as a whole has over 700 million people, the EU alone has 500+. EU is larger and suffers from less mass shootings, firearm violence, school shootings, and pretty much everything to do with firearms. This doesn't help your argument whatsoever.

Well, all I did was pull some info from Wikipedia which would appear to show that school shootings are becoming more common, and that this increase has nothing to do with gun control. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#Europe

The only information there limited to the EU was this

There were 27% more casualties per capita from mass public shootings in EU than US from 2009-15

The tables linked above clearly show multiple European non-EU countries like Macedonia and Switzerland. I don't know what you're trying to get at. France has 0.092 mass shootings per million people. The US has 0.078 per million people. That is less in the US per person.

[Love Mountain]

The left-hand picture I included is literally a comparison of the number of shootings.

And yet you miss the entire point of the graph and the study.

The average incident rate for the 28 EU countries is 0.0602 with a 95% confidence Interval of .0257 to .09477. The US rate is 0.078 is higher than the EU rate, but US and the average for EU countries are not statistically different. The average fatality rate for the 28 EU countries is 0.114 with a 95% confidence Interval of -.0244 to .253. The US rate is 0.089 is lower than the EU rate, but they are again not statistically significantly different.

And the obvious headline chasing is in the next line.

There were 27% more casualties per capita from mass public shootings in EU than US from 2009-15

I'm not even gonna go into the fact that only counting EU countries betrays an agenda, and that the think tank that did this study is extremely right wing or founded by a guy who literally wrote a book called "More Guns, Less Crime". I'm going to ignore these obvious facts because it's unnecessary. The methodology of their study gives enough information to clearly see that they are wrong and are arguing tangents rather than the substance matter at hand.

Well, all I did was pull some info from Wikipedia which would appear to show that school shootings are becoming more common, and that this increase has nothing to do with gun control. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#Europe

The only information there limited to the EU was this

Which reveals a lot. Even if we discount non-EU members, Europe has far less shootings.

The tables linked above clearly show multiple European non-EU countries like Macedonia and Switzerland. I don't know what you're trying to get at. France has 0.092 mass shootings per million people. The US has 0.078 per million people. That is less in the US per person.

And they did not count them in the final tally. In fact, the tables were explicit in saying that only EU countries were compared in the end, I suggest you read the actual source. It's also wrong to compare US vs France or Germany. You have to compare United States to a political or regional entity that's just as big and diverse. Hence why I picked the entire continent of Europe or the EU. It gives a much better overall picture. The State of California is incredibly diverse and is also larger than the majority of European countries. On the other hand, states like Kansas are about the same size as Ukraine. Comparing United States to the EU is flawed, yet inherently better than comparing individual countries to the United States.

EDIT: And I just realized that this "study" specifically covers the year of the worst terrorist attacks in Europe in this millennium. There's an obvious agenda at play here, one that deliberately does not make a distinction between Terrorist attacks in Europe and domestic shootings in America. Trash study.

[Aexodus]

Why are you trying to ignore the data. I concede that there was a 95% interval, but it still remains that in the EU, gun laws didn't protect the people that were killed in 2009-2015. It remains that in 10 European countries, there were more deaths per capita from mass shooting. Gun laws are not efficient at preventing mass shooting by deranged individuals.

After handguns were banned, homocide rates in the U.K. and Chicago in the US both increased.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Love Mountain]

Why are you trying to ignore the data. I concede that there was a 95% interval, but it still remains that in the EU, gun laws didn't protect the people that were killed in 2009-2015.

Because I actually read the data unlike you? 95% is not an "interval" it's a confidence rating which is completely irrelevant to the conversation.

It remains that in 10 European countries, there were more deaths per capita from mass shooting. Gun laws are not efficient at preventing mass shooting by deranged individuals.

It counts terrorists attacks. Do I really have to go on about how retarded it is to use an anomaly of terror attacks as a justification against gun control?

After handguns were banned, homocide rates in the U.K. and Chicago in the US both increased.

Increased? All I see is that homicide rates went down after a spike. That's neither causation nor correlation. It's an anomaly on a graph that clearly shows a consistent homicide rate regardless of the handgun ban.
Handguns haven't been banned in Chicago for years. Illinois has lax gun laws and is no different from the rest of the country. Spoiler: It has done nothing about the homicide rate in Chicago.

[Prodromos]

Increased? All I see is that homicide rates went down after a spike. That's neither causation nor correlation. It's an anomaly on a graph that clearly shows a consistent homicide rate regardless of the handgun ban.

An anomaly? The rate only dropped to pre-ban levels 13 years after the ban. The ban either increased or didn't decrease the homicide rate. I.e., it was useless.

[Gaidin]

We are arguing about how to protect children from a statistically insignificant threat when about 40% of children are now outright obese or seriously overweight and several thousand die each year from obesity related health conditions such as cardiac problems or diabetic complications.


We can't achieve progress regarding mental health in a nation that believes it is acceptable and healthy to allow men to hack off their genitals, inject themselves with chemicals/hormones, and call themselves women.

Hottake: it's the children's fault and we don't have to do anything about the environment of fear generated over the past twenty years.

[Exarch]

I think this is an inherent problem with culture; american society is a puritanical society that censors the female form, nudity and sex. Imagine that! censoring an act of love and procreation between people for....what?!

Instead, guns and violence are the norm in american media. The sickness is in american society itself. Sexually repressed, hyper violent, it's no wonder things like this happens. It's inevitable actually and more disturbingly, a frequent occurrence.

[Love Mountain]

Yes it does appear an anomaly.

http://www.citizensreportuk.org/news...olence-mapped/

Homicidate date appear to fit trends and a rough pattern with the exception of 1 year where it went sharply up.

I.e. firearms have almost nothing to do with preventing crime.

In fact, I dont recall UK ever having a high firearm ownership rate. Not surprisingly, they have almost no school shootings at all in their entire history. This is ignoring other firearm related crime which is extremely low. Seems like gun control is a success.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Heathen Hammer]

We already had that conversation. Europe is just as diverse with twice as many people. They do not suffer from firearm crime anywhere near to the degree that the U.S. does.

What about overall crime? Again, this is a crime issue, not gun issue.

And? His arguments have merit, unlike Ben Shapiro and legions of 2nd amendment youtubers.

I haven't read Shapiro's opinion on it, but I doubt the tries to make an argument based on harassing an old person with Alzheimers.

http://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx
https://everytownresearch.org/2012-p...ground-checks/
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/...hip-with-guns/
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/npripsos...us-individuals


"Luck"

We have already been through this. Polls prove that majority wants regulations... that are already on the books as much as they could be realistically implemented.

And what of the rest of my post?

I already addressed that.

I did suggest pragmatic gun control. You have not addressed it whatsoever.

Unconstitutional laws are not pragmatic. Granted, you'd be able to push for a law like that in some authoritarian country like Germany or UK, but with all of its problems US still has constitution, due to which certain laws can not be implemented if they contradict certain parts of it. Red flag laws would certainly not work in US. The only way to diminish the potential danger form under-the-table sales is creating above-mentioned financial incentive, where private sellers would be motivated to perform background checks on their clients.

How many school shootings in Europe in 2017?

There was a mass stabbing attack in China, if I'm not mistaken. Clearly you don't need a gun to go postal.

[mongrel]

Point withdrawn due to inaccuracy.

[Love Mountain]

What about overall crime? Again, this is a crime issue, not gun issue.

This is a gun issue. Sorry, but taking guns away won't stop rape, robbery, and assault. It will however make it harder for people to kill each other. The horror, I know.

I haven't read Shapiro's opinion on it, but I doubt the tries to make an argument based on harassing an old person with Alzheimers.

No, he's too busy trying to determine whether Obama is a Kenyan or simply a radical Maxrxist. Clearly Moore is a problem.

We have already been through this. Polls prove that majority wants regulations... that are already on the books as much as they could be realistically implemented.

We have been over this, that they aren't.

I already addressed that.

No you didn't. You haven't proved that bomb threats or vehicle ramming would replace firearm violence You haven't said a word about my proposed gun control measures and you haven't disproven how the U.S. is an anomaly among the world when it comes to firearm violence.

Unconstitutional laws are not pragmatic. Granted, you'd be able to push for a law like that in some authoritarian country like Germany or UK, but with all of its problems US still has constitution, due to which certain laws can not be implemented if they contradict certain parts of it. Red flag laws would certainly not work in US. The only way to diminish the potential danger form under-the-table sales is creating above-mentioned financial incentive, where private sellers would be motivated to perform background checks on their clients.

Unconstitutional law means it violates the constitution, it has nothing to do with common sense or practicality. Europe is definitely not authoritarian, in fact every modern country suffers from too little centralized control. My gun control laws would certainly work in the U.S. They make provisions for existing guns in circulation, they allow people to keep their firearms, and they allow people to buy whatever firearms they want. The small request, and a pittance at that, is requiring licensing and proof of good mental state.

What a catastrophe for an average American.

There was a mass stabbing attack in China, if I'm not mistaken. Clearly you don't need a gun to go postal.

We've been over this. Firearms make mass violence far easier than any other weapon. Post that mass stabbing, let's take it apart shall we? Gonna be another instance of a guy murdering sleeping victims?

[Infidel144]

No, he's [Ben Shapiro] too busy trying to determine whether Obama is a Kenyan or simply a radical Maxrxist.

"Obama wasn't born in Kenya. But the fact that his agent put out a bio saying he was for nearly 20 years shows what a liar he is."
https://twitter.com/benshapiro/statu...79431124549632

[PointOfViewGun]

I think nobody posted the latest meeting Trump had with some lawmakers. He actually uttered a number of gems, but this one blows the roof off:

Trump to lawmakers: 'Take the gun first, go through due process second' in some cases

President Donald Trump, during a bipartisan meeting Wednesday with lawmakers to discuss school safety and gun measures, said it might be better in some cases to allow law enforcement to confiscate weapons from potentially disturbed individuals before allowing due process. "Take the gun first, go through due process second," Trump said. After listening to his Vice President Mike Pence discuss due process and the conversation that the President had with governors earlier this week, Trump suggested: "Or, Mike, take the firearms first and then go to court."

[Heathen Hammer]

This is a gun issue. Sorry, but taking guns away won't stop rape, robbery, and assault. It will however make it harder for people to kill each other. The horror, I know.

It would also make it harder for people to defend themselves.

No, he's too busy trying to determine whether Obama is a Kenyan or simply a radical Maxrxist. Clearly Moore is a problem.

At least Shapiro's arguments on gun control are based on logic and reason, Moore is just making emotional propaganda to sell his documentaries.

We have been over this, that they aren't.

Again, I already described in great detail while such regulations would not work. We are going in circles here.

No you didn't. You haven't proved that bomb threats or vehicle ramming would replace firearm violence You haven't said a word about my proposed gun control measures and you haven't disproven how the U.S. is an anomaly among the world when it comes to firearm violence.

Again, if an individual decides to commit a mass murder, he'd find a way to do that and you don't need guns for that specifically. In any case, such shooting sprees are not statistically significant and overall gun crime in US has nothing to do with lack of gun control.

Unconstitutional law means it violates the constitution, it has nothing to do with common sense or practicality. Europe is definitely not authoritarian, in fact every modern country suffers from too little centralized control. My gun control laws would certainly work in the U.S. They make provisions for existing guns in circulation, they allow people to keep their firearms, and they allow people to buy whatever firearms they want. The small request, and a pittance at that, is requiring licensing and proof of good mental state.

What a catastrophe for an average American.

A law violating constitution not being passed has everything to do with common sense and judicial practicality. Enforcing such law would be another can of worms. At the same time, the method I mentioned would provide the incentive to decrease the problem without implementing legislature that would be a political and judicial nightmare. And of course countries like UK are authoritarian, you can't even own most of firearms there and can't legally defend yourself.

We've been over this. Firearms make mass violence far easier than any other weapon. Post that mass stabbing, let's take it apart shall we? Gonna be another instance of a guy murdering sleeping victims?

Again, spree shootings are statistically insignificant. They receive more media attention, but you are more likely to get mauled by a wild animal then to become a target for a spree shooter.

[Love Mountain]

It would also make it harder for people to defend themselves.

We already established that guns do not prevent enough crime to justify themselves. Licensing doesn't ban guns, it regulates who gets to have them.

At least Shapiro's arguments on gun control are based on logic and reason, Moore is just making emotional propaganda to sell his documentaries.

Shapiro's arguments are based on fallacious logic. Moore's logic, while I don't agree with it, it's sound.

Again, I already described in great detail while such regulations would not work. We are going in circles here.

Except you didn't. Take a hint HH, saying "I did this" doesn't actually make it so.

Again, if an individual decides to commit a mass murder, he'd find a way to do that and you don't need guns for that specifically. In any case, such shooting sprees are not statistically significant and overall gun crime in US has nothing to do with lack of gun control.

And we've already proven that false. Other comparable countries do not have anywhere near as much mass violence, nor do criminals suddenly start using bombs, vehicles, and chemical weapons en masse. Removing easy access to firearms prevents them from being used on a day to day basis. That's a fact.

A law violating constitution not being passed has everything to do with common sense and judicial practicality. Enforcing such law would be another can of worms. At the same time, the method I mentioned would provide the incentive to decrease the problem without implementing legislature that would be a political and judicial nightmare. And of course countries like UK are authoritarian, you can't even own most of firearms there and can't legally defend yourself.

It does not. The Constitution has been changed before and it can be changed again. Women's suffrage, alcohol, and slavery. Enforcing gun control is not an issue when you grandfather existing firearms and simply demand them to be registered. And no, countries in Europe are not authoritarian. That's disconnected from reality. Europeans enjoy high standards of living, they choose their leaders, and they have plenty of choices when it comes to where and how to live.

Again, spree shootings are statistically insignificant. They receive more media attention, but you are more likely to get mauled by a wild animal then to become a target for a spree shooter.

And I've already addressed that. Strict gun control does not only target mass shooting, it targets easy access to firearms to all criminals. The majority of all illegal firearms start their life as legal firearms. It's a simple matter of laws to severely reduce that supply. Guns are not toys, despite what most gunowners think.