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Thread: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

  1. #21
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    I'm 50-50. On the one hand I can understand where he is coming from. The TWC ToS does indeed stop at TWC. On the other hand cases of people doing things off-site with the intention of causing harm to the site are not unheard of and we do need o talk about that.()
    Well, it's not just the ToS. There is also the elusive 'behaviour unbecoming of a Citizen' which does not have to equal a violation of the ToS, even when it almost always does in practice.

    Also I think we need to take in account that stuff not posted on TWC itself, very rarely has been an issue before, even when we have seen probably too much of it recently.
    Last edited by Veteraan; February 15, 2018 at 08:57 AM. Reason: Added the quote I was reacting to

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  2. #22
    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    I'm 50-50. On the one hand I can understand where he is coming from. The TWC ToS does indeed stop at TWC. On the other hand cases of people doing things off-site with the intention of causing harm to the site are not unheard of and we do need o talk about that.

    My advice is that you should really refine this based on what the others have said.
    The second proposal is the closest. If someone threatens to cause harm to TWC via ddos attacks, that can be brought up (although personally I think Hex should just deal with that rather than the Curia).




  3. #23
    General Brewster's Avatar The Flying Dutchman
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    A noble en-devour but valiantly opposed. It's all been said already so I won't be repeating the various reasons.

    Also, It's my belief that users actually need to post their support.. I don't see any posts declaring support here from Para or Soul which is odd.

  4. #24
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    Support, seems a rather obvious necessity as some will abuse and rely on people misunderstanding subject matter off site, or who could be misrepresenting an individual. I believe i recommended something on these lines after everyone was up an arms about off site screenshots being provided on Mr_Nygrens Citizenship.(In which i personally provided as evidence to my concerns)

    Also issues of identity, releasing real life pictures used as avatars that some may wish to keep private, names, country etc. Curia is not an online detective force to start prowling elsewhere, if relevant, getting Curator or Hex permissions and informing the individual before matters are made public to the Curia, is more than logical. Also, with in site matters can be confirmed 100% by Hex, outside their is no 100% guarantee unless admittance of the individual.

    For example, an individual of TWC is caught stating obvious violations of TOS or SND through facebook. What right does the Curia have for revealing that persons identity, or personal picture that may be held private to unconnected contacts. And how does one verify that persons connection to TWC without admittance from the individual?
    Last edited by Parafix; February 14, 2018 at 09:18 PM.

  5. #25
    Genius of the Restoration's Avatar You beaut and magical
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    If it's still left up to citizens to decide what is relevant, let's not restrict their ability to provide justification for their choices.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    Opposed. I can decide for myself what is and is not relevant. Besides, your attitude is something that should not change regardless of medium.
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  7. #27
    ♔atthias♔'s Avatar dutch speaking
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    support
    this **** should stop
    Last edited by ♔atthias♔; February 16, 2018 at 03:02 AM. Reason: removed unnecessary content
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  8. #28
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    If it's still left up to citizens to decide what is relevant, let's not restrict their ability to provide justification for their choices.
    If i were to say something on Facebook, and a Citizen felt it necessary to to provide a screencap that may reveal my identity, that leads not to only revealing myself outside TWC life to everyone (Which no one has a right to do as such), but also my friends, family, work colleagues etc. Anyone on TWC can view such posts in the Curia, which means that person would be revealing large parts of my life to an online community that i may not wish to reveal, hence online name and avatar on TWC are different to social networks.

    Should really be a TOS violation, but having it in the constitution makes sense, awaiting approval by the Curator or Hex to post such things, with the person being informed prior so they have to deal with off site security, merely logical and morally the right thing to do.

    Pretty sure it violates EU Law aswell.
    Last edited by Parafix; February 15, 2018 at 11:34 AM.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    If it's still left up to citizens to decide what is relevant, let's not restrict their ability to provide justification for their choices.
    This, therefore opposed. Where off-site material violates the ToS (invasion of privacy, etc.) the Curator can delete/hide those posts and Hex can deal with it under that premise well enough. Everything else is at most bad taste and well judged for its merit by the Citizens.
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  10. #30

    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    There is no expectation of privacy online. This includes emails. I post on the TWC Facebook page from time to time so anyone that post there will know who I am. Because I am a teacher, my FB is pretty secure. There are only three people from TWC who are friended by me and two of them are not even active. I wouldnt say anything on my FB that I would not say here. Moreover people have been fired for things said and shown on FB. My advice for anyone is set your FB page with high security and don’t share it with community if you wish to keep it private. If your I do share it is best to unfriend or change their security status immediately.
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  11. #31
    General Brewster's Avatar The Flying Dutchman
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    Pretty sure it violates EU Law aswell.
    Pretty sure it doesn't and even if it did, the physical server is in the USA which means they don't have to abide to EU regulations as they are not situated in a member state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar View Post
    This, therefore opposed. Where off-site material violates the ToS (invasion of privacy, etc.) the Curator can delete/hide those posts and Hex can deal with it under that premise well enough. Everything else is at most bad taste and well judged for its merit by the Citizens.
    Fully agree with both GotR and Iskar.

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    There is no expectation of privacy online. This includes emails. I post on the TWC Facebook page from time to time so anyone that post there will know who I am. Because I am a teacher, my FB is pretty secure. There are only three people from TWC who are friended by me and two of them are not even active. I wouldnt say anything on my FB that I would not say here. Moreover people have been fired for things said and shown on FB. My advice for anyone is set your FB page with high security and don’t share it with community if you wish to keep it private. If your I do share it is best to unfriend or change their security status immediately.
    Nicely said!

  12. #32
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_P...ective#Context

    Anyhow, it's not in the place of the Curia to reveal others identities, nor is it to police the internet.

  13. #33
    Aikanár's Avatar Shadow of the past
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    Quote Originally Posted by Genius of the Restoration View Post
    If it's still left up to citizens to decide what is relevant, let's not restrict their ability to provide justification for their choices.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar View Post
    This, therefore opposed. Where off-site material violates the ToS (invasion of privacy, etc.) the Curator can delete/hide those posts and Hex can deal with it under that premise well enough. Everything else is at most bad taste and well judged for its merit by the Citizens.
    I'm of the same mind as Genius and my son.

    I oppose.


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  14. #34
    Frunk's Avatar Form Follows Function
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    If i were to say something on Facebook, and a Citizen felt it necessary to to provide a screencap that may reveal my identity, that leads not to only revealing myself outside TWC life to everyone (Which no one has a right to do as such), but also my friends, family, work colleagues etc. Anyone on TWC can view such posts in the Curia, which means that person would be revealing large parts of my life to an online community that i may not wish to reveal, hence online name and avatar on TWC are different to social networks.

    Should really be a TOS violation, but having it in the constitution makes sense, awaiting approval by the Curator or Hex to post such things, with the person being informed prior so they have to deal with off site security, merely logical and morally the right thing to do.

    Pretty sure it violates EU Law aswell.

    Invasion of Privacy already is a ToS violation
    .

    To my knowledge, no private information (strictly defined as information which reveals details about a person's real life identity; not their online persona) has been posted in the Curia or on TWC in the recent events which led to this Amendment being proposed.

    As already stated by others, the Curator, Hex and even regular Citizens are able to determine what is and what is not an invasion of privacy and remove or report it forthwith. This Amendment, however, would disallow any off-site information from being discussed (n.b.: not just not posted; not discussed at all), including that which does not reveal any private information.
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  15. #35
    La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham's Avatar Artifex♔Duffer♔Civitate
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    The intent is honourable and noble old chap, but it wouldn't work on TWC when members who are amongst the hierarchy here, are members of another site who organised troll attacks on TWC and organised attacks on members for their amusement (I know because I was a member of Shamb)
    You would be "flogging a dead horse" sir.
    Sorry I cant beat about the bush, life is too short, lets get to the truth of matters!
    Opposed.

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  16. #36
    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    Quote Originally Posted by La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham View Post
    Opposed.
    I know its not gonna pass, but surely its better to support it just to try and change the status quo and let the outraged voice of the vox populi be heard?
    So does the Curator want to put the first proposal to the vote? We've got 4 public supporters (me, Bolton, Parafix, and atthias (and Soul if he bothers to post)) and a bevy of dissenters. If it fails it's just a month until it can be put up again right? Not a 3 month or 6 month wait?
    Last edited by Commissar Caligula_; February 18, 2018 at 06:58 AM.




  17. #37
    La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham's Avatar Artifex♔Duffer♔Civitate
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    Quote Originally Posted by Caligula View Post
    I know its not gonna pass, but surely its better to support it just to try and change the status quo and let the outraged voice of the vox populi be heard?
    Yes your right sir, because you seem a jolly decent and polite fellow and I "like the cut of your gib"...I will change my vote to support.

    "No problem can withstand the assault of sustained Dufferism"

  18. #38
    Frunk's Avatar Form Follows Function
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    If it fails, it's 28 days before it may be re-proposed, yes.
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  19. #39
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    Quote Originally Posted by La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham View Post
    Yes your right sir, because you seem a jolly decent and polite fellow and I "like the cut of your gib"...I will change my vote to support.
    Really Brig. You of all people should value the transparency of justice....

  20. #40
    La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham's Avatar Artifex♔Duffer♔Civitate
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    Default Re: Proposed Constitutional Amendment - No Discussion About Behaviour Off-Site

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    Really Brig. You of all people should value the transparency of justice....
    I do indeed Halie mate but in this case he may have something, from my understanding the proposal would help negate interference from other sites and protect TWC? to a degree, however I tried to protect TWC many moons ago with a thread that caused an uproar from the very people attacking TWC and realised it was futile in the end, that those who were in control here, were members of the very same site that were attack TWC and individual members sir, so I know where this proposal comes from? it comes from concern for this site and that cant be a bad thing taken as a whole, although I hope I haven't cut my nose to spite my face?

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