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Thread: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

  1. #41
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    Quote Originally Posted by Caligula View Post
    What Halie said. Its infringing on their personal lives a bit, but Parafix is taking SoulGamesInc and a few friends to Amsterdam sometime in a few weeks, and is joking about using this holiday that he's paying for to "blackmail" Soul into voting for him. That's why I suggested to Jadli that he remove the screenshot, its just joking between two friends in their Discord and it has nothing to do with the application and infringes on their private business.
    Umm. That actually sounds worse. While that may have been said in jest, some are going to conclude that there's a level of truth in there. Parafix joked about it so he had already reached that conclusion himself. As for it being private. As I said, MSN logs have been used before, as have PM's between two members. Seeing as Jadli had access and posted it here, and we can't un-see it, we're obviously not in Kansas any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snape
    I'd still like to see a rebuttal that isn't based upon our suppositions. It is possible the rebuttal will align with our suppositions, but there's no guarantee.
    Sounds like you're just handing him a rope...

  2. #42
    Omnipotent-Q's Avatar All Powerful Q
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    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    Quote Originally Posted by Caligula View Post
    What Halie said. Its infringing on their personal lives a bit, but Parafix is taking SoulGamesInc and a few friends to Amsterdam sometime in a few weeks, and is joking about using this holiday that he's paying for to "blackmail" Soul into voting for him. That's why I suggested to Jadli that he remove the screenshot, its just joking between two friends in their Discord and it has nothing to do with the application and infringes on their private business.

    Also, that screenshot is over two months old. It was taken on New Years.
    Lobbying the Curia vote wise is completely against the constitution, it was posted in the Curia. As far as I'm aware, there are no mind readers in these parts...

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  3. #43
    General Brewster's Avatar The Flying Dutchman
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    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    Umm. That actually sounds worse. While that may have been said in jest, some are going to conclude that there's a level of truth in there. Parafix joked about it so he had already reached that conclusion himself. As for it being private. As I said, MSN logs have been used before, as have PM's between two members. Seeing as Jadli had access and posted it here, and we can't un-see it, we're obviously not in Kansas any more.



    Sounds like you're just handing him a rope...
    Steam screenshots have been used as well I might add.
    Hell even screenshots from different forums..

  4. #44
    Hader's Avatar Things are very seldom what they seem. In my experience, they’re usually a damn sight worse.
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    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    Keep the discussion and arguments to the point of the nomination please, and do not unnecessarily discuss other members or irrelevant issues. There is a difference between how you may inform the curia of your opinions on the nominee, and then there is letting the drama of that section spill over yet more into the curia for no good reason. Do not discuss other members in ways unrelated to this nomination and do not turn this into an extension of anything that has happened elsewhere. This is an award decision and discussion, not a soapbox.
    Last edited by Hader; February 12, 2018 at 08:06 PM.

  5. #45

    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    Sounds like you're just handing him a rope...
    I very well might be...but I'm also a big advocate of due process. I have a hard time believing 100% of the argument against without seeing any counterpoints. Even though my spidey senses are tingling...

  6. #46
    Frunk's Avatar Form Follows Function
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    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    As an outsider, I think the timing of this proposal is very poor. There are clearly ongoing issues in GS/HS that need to be resolved before I will feel comfortable supporting a large award nomination such as this.
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  7. #47
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    A sigh, just got home from work, was hoping to get some sleep, but ah well, here we go.

    It's obvious i'm joking, out of site, as i am with every other mate of mine i'm taking on holiday with my birthday of them "owing me one". Anyone to make the presumption that i'd fork out a large sum of real cash for an Opifex award that i have close to no work of deserving the medal, to even have to defend this is absurd. Using screencaps of Souls youtube channel discord, where not only hotseat players, but his viewers and Off site friends join to chat, post nonsense, mock each other, go into heated political debates etc, is not relevant information.

    I'm pretty sure iv'e joked about leaving him in Amsterdam or using him as a mule, or getting a tattoo of "Parafix" on his forehead, would anyone here think that as serious with a group of friends having a laugh off site, or would you find that essential into bringing that here as well?

    Now onto the rest, situation of members of Gaming Staff being removed due to SND violations, or resigning before being removed, is a Hex matter, not a Director matter. Why this discussion is even being brought into this application and being allowed, is also beyond me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadli View Post
    The Term "Youngblood" had existed before he even registered, check for example here
    And the term "Newbloods" had also already existed , while Soul has been claiming its his invention.
    Terms and official hosted series + submods are two completely different things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadli View Post
    There were recruitment threads before, such as this one
    I clearly stated "The Mods Watch", not sure on the intention of linking to something irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadli View Post
    I also suspect all kinds of rematches, continued games or "skip a few" had existed before (will try to find more tomorrow)
    Poorly described on my part, this where submods designed to base on the story lines events of previous hotseat games. Pretty much off topic though as you know the differences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadli View Post
    Well, I wouldnt take this that far. I assume he was very active when in the times when he joined Gaming Staff, but after that his activity was pretty low compared to other members of Gaming Staff. When you joined The Staff, you were even claiming you brought him back if I remember correctly. He usually was admining a game or two and playing in few games, while working on some small mod. Even now, if you check hotseat section, you will see he is currently admining only one dead game, and is player in a few hotseats...
    Gaming Staff as a whole was doing nothing until i joined, with the exception of admining games. Now, he's running a Gaming Staff team while creating maps, mods, artwork rewards etc etc for hotseats. (And is not relied to admin as Westeros has active and reliable admins who are under the admin cap. The game you're mentioning is one thats on halt because you were banned from TWC and the HS forums, leaving only 2 members of the GS team as players, i'm pretty sure they agreed to halting it till a suitable replacement was found.

    Regarding the other stuff, it's off topic, derailing and has nothing to do with the OP. He's done it before, and is repeating the offence, once again in the Curia, once again in a Novus nomination.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    feuds are not tolerated, there's a reason if some guys are today former staffers
    Quote Originally Posted by General Brewster View Post
    Any feud that exist between people can be fought out privately but I will not have any more of it in the Curia
    Quote Originally Posted by Hader View Post
    Do not discuss other members in ways unrelated to this nomination and do not turn this into an extension of anything that has happened elsewhere
    The advertising of the site he runs as well, shocking...

    Anymore questions about what's stated in the OP, i'll be happy to respond too, i will not justify trolling, derailing, off topic rants by responding to them any further.


    Edit (Additional after reading through things)
    - Jadli does not have access to the Discord channel
    - Obviously i requested details of his GS track record, as i have not been around as long as him. Especially regarding the Westeros: Total War legality issues.
    - Using out of context screenshots, of jokes between mates off site is beyond unacceptable. Especially when humor between friends or people differs and may not be understood by outsiders.
    - Concerns about the fact we are mates, and i nominating him, is merely logical as i am the person who has worked most with him, and has more of an understanding of the hotseat gaming staff than anyone else in the Curia that could potentially nominate him.
    - To the above point, i had Lifthrasir (Head of Art Staff), Hader (Temporary Gaming Staff Hex now and previously), Dux (Former Gaming Director) agree to write up positive recommendations over 4 weeks ago to draw away potential criticism of it being friends nominating friends, Lifth has provided his with Caligula proving work to support his statement, Hader has been busy and not so active and now having to post in the big red text, Dux is inactive and rarely on TWC.
    - Jadli has stated he would support the application, if it were not for Soul having to work with Hex to decide on how to deal with his violations.
    - The timing of the application regarding an off topic matter regarding individuals did not even come to mind, due to it being off topic, and not about the nominee. (It is a Hex matter, Hader is temporary Gaming Staff Hex and he and his colleagues are the only ones involved in that matter)
    - The only timing that came to mind was, (1) Do I have time to write it up? (2) Do i want to post it before my work schedule becomes a lot heavier in the next coming weeks? (3) Do i want to get it written up and posted before i go on Holiday, or delay it a few months due to other TWC and Non-TWC commitments that will take up the time after?

    I flat out refuse to accept any member of the Curia is willing to see any of this as a rebuttal to anything but personal issues Jadli has with the nominee, and in a poor and petty attempt of some form of vengeance for not getting his own way on an off topic matter. As much as i bump heads with members of the Curia, i have some confidence in it's membership.
    Last edited by Parafix; February 13, 2018 at 02:54 AM. Reason: Wall wasn't big enough

  8. #48
    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    Quote Originally Posted by Caligula View Post
    Here's a collection of all of SoulGamesInc's contributions both as a Content Artist, and just as a general artist. I reckon this contributes towards his "exceptional contributions to the site in the capacity of a staff member" as...

    ● He has created half of the signatures and banners used by members of the Hotseat community. These allow for members to be awarded for their efforts in the Hotseats, and to show their victories and achievements off to fellow community members.
    Gaming Staff






    Hot Seat Award Signatures




    ● He has created TWC's Youtube and Twitter Banner, Sigbar and Intro/Outro Videos.
    Social Media





    ● He has created various signatures, avatars and profile pictures for a variety of community members.
    Pikestance

    Caligula


    Parafix
    FrostySOTF
    Avatars & Profile Pictures

    Here are some more examples of the Content Artist work that SoulGamesInc has done. Publication banners for the various arms of Content Staff.

    Content Staff Requests













  9. #49
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    Added to the previous post, if we can bring the discussion back on Topic, that will be lovely. I have no interest in pulling the nomination to simply repost later on, so any relevant questions or discussion based on the topic at hand, i look forward too.

  10. #50
    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    Terms and official hosted series + submods are two completely different things.
    The Newblood HS I linked to is a 3rd game of its series. If your scroll down, you will also find out its using a hotseat patch, so neither this statement
    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    Worked on a number of the first ever Hotseat Mods (detailed under Modding) to provide the community with new content.
    is true. Only difference is that Soul's series is offering rewards to the winners. Can find more hotseat mods if you want

    Similarily, First Youngblood hotseat of youngblood series, using "young bloods" mod, was started by Dux and Mithridate, cca 2 years ago before Soul's first newblood HS. So saying that "The Newblood series now has spread to the other sections of the hotseat community and expanded to the "Youngbloods" and "Midbloods Games", which follow the same principals but for the more experienced player base." is pretty untrue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    I clearly stated "The Mods Watch", not sure on the intention of linking to something irrelevant.
    Sighs... You said
    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    - Created the Mods Watch, now used across all hotseat sections to allow admins to advertise open player positions in their games.
    "Mods Watch" has always been only in Westeros, Recruitment threads in other sections were named differently, as well as using different design (see tatw and main section)

    I sincerely hope these things were brought into the app by you, and not by SoulGamesInc, as I havent seen so many stealing of someone else's projects and falsely claiming various patents, in a single application for a long time.



    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    Gaming Staff as a whole was doing nothing until i joined, with the exception of admining games.

    Furthermore, you have just moreless said Soul hadnt been doing anything for cca 2-3 years
    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    Now, he's running a Gaming Staff team while creating maps, mods, artwork rewards etc etc for hotseats. (And is not relied to admin as Westeros has active and reliable admins who are under the admin cap. The game you're mentioning is one thats on halt because you were banned from TWC and the HS forums, leaving only 2 members of the GS team as players, i'm pretty sure they agreed to halting it till a suitable replacement was found.
    Considering I had played my last turn, they could have played entire another turn. Plus my faction doesnt have much hope so it could be easily subbed by the admin, the details are rather irrelevant anyway. Whether he is admining one dead or viable hotseat is not that a difference. Even counting his other projects I would say his activity wasnt that exceptional compared to other members, who in time period shorter time than five years managed comparable things. (talking about hotseat matters, not his other activites)

    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    - Jadli does not have access to the Discord channel
    I was member of the discord in the times when this was posted. I was kicked from it shortly before my ban.

    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    - The timing of the application regarding an off topic matter regarding individuals did not even come to mind, due to it being off topic, and not about the nominee. (It is a Hex matter, Hader is temporary Gaming Staff Hex and he and his colleagues are the only ones involved in that matter)
    - The only timing that came to mind was, (1) Do I have time to write it up? (2) Do i want to post it before my work schedule becomes a lot heavier in the next coming weeks? (3) Do i want to get it written up and posted before i go on Holiday, or delay it a few months due to other TWC and Non-TWC commitments that will take up the time after?
    Gaming Staff is here to be actively improving the hotseat community and keep it running. If the current state of the community is off-topic and not relevant to this novus application, then by the same measure, we could say the same about everything you have written in the application. Especially considering SoulGamesInc has been the Hotseat Gaming Director.
    Last edited by Jadli; February 13, 2018 at 10:23 AM.

  11. #51

    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    The question at hand is whether or not Soul's work as Gaming Staff and Content Staff is enough to warrant him being awarded with Novus. In my opinion the discussion about off site conversations is off topic and irrelevant to the larger discussion of Soul's work. Besides as Parafix has stated the conversation about him bribing or blackmailing Soul was a joke and not a serious conspiracy.

    I believe Soul's work to be more than adequate for the Novus award.

  12. #52
    Riverknight's Avatar Last of the Romans
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    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    Well that was a nice little reintroduction to just how volatile Hotseating relationships can get.
    I have a unique perspective as I've was involved with Gaming Staff and Hotseating since way back when.
    I've worked with Soul and we were contemporaries in the Hotseating community during the period many of these accomplishments took place in.

    First thing first this, much like Frunk stated, is the worst possible time for this award proposal, it's baffling. I think Soul has done a ton for the Hotseat community, his youtube popularity, as Parafix mentioned, cannot be understated. The individuals Soul brought to TWC and Hotseating have gone on to do amazing things; thought most of them flamed out in the matter of weeks. It is strange that this was determined to be a good time for this app, as many of you can see the controversy Soul is involved with.

    Most of the services Soul has preformed in Gaming Staff centered around "professionalizing" what was already there, for lack of a better example, he renovated and standardized information that was already available.
    Here are some examples
    The WTW Hotseating community already had a replacement thread before Soul made the nicer looking "Mods Watch" and there were numerous "Hotseating guide index" threads before Soul made a nicer looking one. These could be seen as examples of his service, I think it is not. Putting glitter on a poster only makes it pretty.

    I'll now go ahead and look at this application as a whole.
    Joined Gaming Staff in early 2014 as Head of Westeros, recruited by Dux after another member of the team resigned.
    The idea of being "The Head" of a certain subsection is a really poor term that has only recently been used to represent seniority. When I joined GS way back when we all just admined certain areas based on preference, Dux was the ultimate authority on rules and content but never was "the head" of certain sections.

    Spent over a year as one of the few "Admin Pillars", a thankless task of being admin of a lot of games to allow players to continue enjoying their hotseats.
    This is nothing spectacular, everyone admins, Soul was particularly good but that isn't worthy of this award. The reason Soul won all of those admins awards is because he was adding scripts and reinventing maps that had never been seen before.

    Was one of the key instruments of holding together the Westeros hotseat section while the Westeros: Total War mod faced legality issues, temporarily moving the community off site to maintain the continuation of games and keeping the active player base until the legality issue was resolved. A task that no member of Staff would enjoy doing with such a large player base.
    This was especially good on Soul, his videos helped get people to move, though on a TWC level Ice Eyes was the most involved. This whole App should have been centered around Soul did to help, all of us GS back then deserved a ing vacation after that nonsense.

    Recruitment myself to Gaming Staff (His greatest accomplishment to date) in which both working closely together pushed for much needed changes within Gaming Staff, implemented the admin cap with the full support of all previous pillars and staff with the exception of one person.
    So? I have no idea why you're adding yourself to Soul's app as a source of contribution to TWC.
    Appointed section leaders of default to try handle a rather long list of previous mismanagement.
    The one active "default" hotseat thanks Soul for cleaning up such a mess.

    Assisted myself in the clean up operation of the Westeros section with the support of the player base, The task of having to tackle pages of dead games, out dated sticky threads and countless pages of threads requiring to be archived.
    This is Simply not true, I of all people did that by creating "the archive" with Silenced Ape, you both did do a fine job keeping it running while I ran away to go play college.

    Assisted me with creating the 2016 Hotseat awards.
    - Hosted and ran the 2017 Hotseat awards.
    Running a Hotseat award is a good inclusion. I do not know why you keep on including yourself in this app though, Running an award for hotseating isn't that hard, I'm not sure how he could have helped you beyond telling you how to make it look pretty.

    Seen to the implementation of Gaming Competition Medals, previously unused, now reworked with new requirements and artwork.
    This is another really good thing Soul did, I don't know why you don't go into it more.

    Pioneered the concept of 'continued' games, skipping ahead years to create new settings. (Example: The Faith Militant)
    This by itself deserves this award, why do you only spend one sentence on it.

    Is currently dealing with the improper behavior of several individuals
    Why you thought this was appropriate to add in this is baffling.

    The Newblood series now has spread to the other sections of the hotseat community and expanded to the "Youngbloods" and "Midbloods Games", which follow the same principals but for the more experienced player base.
    Nonsense, the idea behind games that cap skill level has been around long before this concept. My first hotseat was Youngblood IV. The only thing Soul did to this concept was add some art and make it come with an award/signature. The original games were literally based on the old youngblood hs mod.

    The newblood games have for years been based on submods of Souls design to allow the above to be implemented, now to the point of us now creating unique maps / mods alongside the A World of Ice and Fire Project for the soul purpose of new players.
    This is another important thing Soul has done, I don't know why you don't go into more detail.

    Conclusion
    Whether Soul deserves the award or not I'm not sure. He has done a lot for the Hotseat community, but that doesn't hide the fact that the community is in terrible shape right now. If he truly is the "Overseer" this state is squarely on his shoulders.
    I think most of the contributions Parafix has listed here are not really explained really well. Parafix should have only focussed on Soul's key contributions and then went into paragraph length detail about why this is important, instead he just decided to list everything that came to mind.

    This application has some lies and half truths, if Parafix had focused on Soul's work with scripting hotseats and making mods just for hotseating Soul gets this award. Instead Parafix delivered a very poor nomination thread.

    I do not support this nomination, based mostly on the application itself. I hope Soul finds someone that can do a better job of listing his key contributions without adding in half truths, unnecessary drama and an obnoxious amount of lower case "i"s.

  13. #53
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadli View Post
    The Newblood HS I linked to is a 3rd game of its series. If your scroll down, you will also find out its using a hotseat patch, so neither this statement
    is true. Only difference is that Soul's series is offering rewards to the winners. Can find more hotseat mods if you want
    Once again, official Newblood series hosted by GS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadli View Post
    Similarily, First Youngblood hotseat of youngblood series, using "young bloods" mod, was started by Dux and Mithridate, cca 2 years ago before Soul's first newblood HS. So saying that "The Newblood series now has spread to the other sections of the hotseat community and expanded to the "Youngbloods" and "Midbloods Games", which follow the same principals but for the more experienced player base." is pretty untrue.
    and again, official YB games. Getting the sense of you trying to manipulate those who do not hotseat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadli View Post
    Sighs... You said
    "Mods Watch" has always been only in Westeros, Recruitment threads in other sections were named differently, as well as using different design (see tatw and main section)
    Thankyou for providing the links of the other sections, dates of thread creations confirm my statement. Giving unique designs and names for other sections is rather logical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadli View Post
    Furthermore, you have just moreless said Soul hadnt been doing anything for cca 2-3 years
    Was the role Gaming Staff sunk too throughout that time, merely only admining games, i don't blame any member falling into that status quo under the management of Dux.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadli View Post
    Considering I had played my last turn, they could have played entire another turn. Plus my faction doesnt have much hope so it could be easily subbed by the admin, the details are rather irrelevant anyway. Whether he is admining one dead or viable hotseat is not that a difference. Even counting his other projects I would say his activity wasnt that exceptional compared to other members, who in time period shorter time than five years managed comparable things. (talking about hotseat matters, not his other activites)
    Role of Gaming Staff is not to admin games, his Newblood games have just ended and waiting for the updated version of newbloods to be out before hosting any more, creating a range of submods, mods and maps, for hotseat purposes, joining roles in other staff departments to assist with rewards or advertisement of the hotseat community, management of the Gaming Staff team and expanding the team to be consistently doing work and designing a large range of fresh systems, cleaning up the sticky threads, redesigning the layout of the forums and introducing some control measures to avoid mismanagement is what makes his work, exceptional.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverknight View Post
    First thing first this, much like Frunk stated, is the worst possible time for this award proposal, it's baffling. I think Soul has done a ton for the Hotseat community, his youtube popularity, as Parafix mentioned, cannot be understated. The individuals Soul brought to TWC and Hotseating have gone on to do amazing things; thought most of them flamed out in the matter of weeks. It is strange that this was determined to be a good time for this app, as many of you can see the controversy Soul is involved with.
    As Head of Hotseating, he's involved by default in every "controversy" and by that standard would never be viable for any reward.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverknight View Post
    The idea of being "The Head" of a certain subsection is a really poor term that has only recently been used to represent seniority. When I joined GS way back when we all just admined certain areas based on preference, Dux was the ultimate authority on rules and content but never was "the head" of certain sections.
    Official positions as head of sections was placed in by Hader after Dux's resignation, allowing i can only presume to find individuals running sections who would be capable of the position of Director to allow Soul to take place as the GS Hex. Having middle management, running their own teams of staff (I personally recruited 3 members to my team).
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverknight View Post
    This is nothing spectacular, everyone admins, Soul was particularly good but that isn't worthy of this award. The reason Soul won all of those admins awards is because he was adding scripts and reinventing maps that had never been seen before.
    I fully agree, the application is not about him as admin of games, hence why i did not provide the full list of games he has admined over the past, merely pointing out the activity that goes with it is a raindrop falling into a lake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverknight View Post
    This was especially good on Soul, his videos helped get people to move, though on a TWC level Ice Eyes was the most involved. This whole App should have been centered around Soul did to help, all of us GS back then deserved a ing vacation after that nonsense.
    Not specifying that Soul was the only member of the GS team to work on this, i know he helped a lot with his knowledge of copyright law. Shocks me still to this day the entire GS team involved did not receive Man of the Hour awards, it would of been something that i'm not even sure i would of been able to handle myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverknight View Post
    So? I have no idea why you're adding yourself to Soul's app as a source of contribution to TWC
    .Having a bit of fun River Was also the starting point of internal changes to GS as well as a large amount of work and contributions that i have listed in the OP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverknight View Post
    This is Simply not true, I of all people did that by creating "the archive" with Silenced Ape, you both did do a fine job keeping it running while I ran away to go play college.
    The Westeros section was a complete mess, with far too many unsustainable active games and far too many inactive games, with it all revolving around 3-4 individuals as either players or admins holding it together. Also 20 odd pages of threads with their redirects still remaining, as a need to make things look pretty, required a lot of work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverknight View Post
    Running a Hotseat award is a good inclusion. I do not know why you keep on including yourself in this app though, Running an award for hotseating isn't that hard, I'm not sure how he could have helped you beyond telling you how to make it look pretty.
    As like a lot of the work since i joined, both hand in hand working together on everything. Nor do i want anyone to think the things listed in my Novus award i'm trying to place onto Soul, thus stating the involvement of both of us. As well as managing moderation while open discussion of the awards is allowed and can get heated, something that the GS are rather proud of having, unlike most of TWC awards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverknight View Post
    This is another really good thing Soul did, I don't know why you don't go into it more.
    As you wish good sir, though my concerns over space at this point is equally concerning as i had over the OP. With most Westeros hotseat games, a form of RP is always linger, even if not a RP hotseat. People take pride in their accomplishments, family trees, marriage ties etc. Westeros at times had a problem with repetitive games using the same scenarios, while at the time he was relatively new to modding he used past games to create continuation sub mods. To make as clear as possible and using the Faith Militant as example, a past hotseat had ended surrounding a war of five kings scenario, he used the last saves of the game to flesh out a submod that had unique and updated factions to turn the scenario into a war between religion. This allowed players who had spent a lot of time on the game that had ended, who enjoyed the hotseat, the opportunity to play in a fresh game where their past victories and standings could be used. Faith Militant hotseat was very well received, as one who jumped in as a substitute for a faction very late into the game, was easilly seen the care the players had for the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverknight View Post
    Why you thought this was appropriate to add in this is baffling.
    3 members of Gaming Staff and a former member of Gaming Staff actively disrupting and breaking SND, Gaming Staff Code of Conduct and Terms of Service, and in response of being found out and punished by Hex moving the entire sections hotseats away off site, refusing to hand over official TWC hosted event passwords, copying every TWC thread and then having to deal with threats of it wont be returned alongside the playerbase unless Hex's decision was reverted, simply shows Souls commitment and will to the role and to upholding the standards in place in TWC and Gaming Staff. Then having to spend every day responding to a wave of PMs, while at the same time trying to work out a way of moving forward, is more than appropriate to add. I added the link to insure i was not breaking SND or any other forms of TOS by linking to a Hex's post and stance about the matter, and as a reference to the derailing that i knew would come.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverknight View Post
    Nonsense, the idea behind games that cap skill level has been around long before this concept. My first hotseat was Youngblood IV. The only thing Soul did to this concept was add some art and make it come with an award/signature. The original games were literally based on the old youngblood hs mod.
    He made the concept into an official series, hosted by GS. While creating a standard of how these games are managed and organised. Also updating the awards and creating a new system of how these are handed out. The progression of the series, especially in Westeros, had gone through many submod developments and is now developing into their own mods, with unique maps, inbuilt guides for admins and players.

    As stated in the OP, i had not enough space to post full details on every subject, and invited anyone to ask questions about anything i posted so i could respond, such as now. The Curia membership do not hold a great knowledge on the hotseat sections nor on what Gaming Staff do, which has dramatically changed since you were GS, in which is the main reason i presented the application in a way so i could respond to such queries.

  14. #54
    Riverknight's Avatar Last of the Romans
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    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    Once again, official Newblood series hosted by GS.

    and again, official YB games. Getting the sense of you trying to manipulate those who do not hotseat.

    Thankyou for providing the links of the other sections, dates of thread creations confirm my statement. Giving unique designs and names for other sections is rather logical.

    Was the role Gaming Staff sunk too throughout that time, merely only admining games, i don't blame any member falling into that status quo under the management of Dux.
    Role of Gaming Staff is not to admin games, his Newblood games have just ended and waiting for the updated version of newbloods to be out before hosting any more, creating a range of submods, mods and maps, for hotseat purposes, joining roles in other staff departments to assist with rewards or advertisement of the hotseat community, management of the Gaming Staff team and expanding the team to be consistently doing work and designing a large range of fresh systems, cleaning up the sticky threads, redesigning the layout of the forums and introducing some control measures to avoid mismanagement is what makes his work, exceptional.
    As Head of Hotseating, he's involved by default in every "controversy" and by that standard would never be viable for any reward.
    Official positions as head of sections was placed in by Hader after Dux's resignation, allowing i can only presume to find individuals running sections who would be capable of the position of Director to allow Soul to take place as the GS Hex. Having middle management, running their own teams of staff (I personally recruited 3 members to my team).
    I fully agree, the application is not about him as admin of games, hence why i did not provide the full list of games he has admined over the past, merely pointing out the activity that goes with it is a raindrop falling into a lake.
    Not specifying that Soul was the only member of the GS team to work on this, i know he helped a lot with his knowledge of copyright law. Shocks me still to this day the entire GS team involved did not receive Man of the Hour awards, it would of been something that i'm not even sure i would of been able to handle myself.
    .Having a bit of fun River Was also the starting point of internal changes to GS as well as a large amount of work and contributions that i have listed in the OP.
    The Westeros section was a complete mess, with far too many unsustainable active games and far too many inactive games, with it all revolving around 3-4 individuals as either players or admins holding it together. Also 20 odd pages of threads with their redirects still remaining, as a need to make things look pretty, required a lot of work.
    As like a lot of the work since i joined, both hand in hand working together on everything. Nor do i want anyone to think the things listed in my Novus award i'm trying to place onto Soul, thus stating the involvement of both of us. As well as managing moderation while open discussion of the awards is allowed and can get heated, something that the GS are rather proud of having, unlike most of TWC awards.
    As you wish good sir, though my concerns over space at this point is equally concerning as i had over the OP. With most Westeros hotseat games, a form of RP is always linger, even if not a RP hotseat. People take pride in their accomplishments, family trees, marriage ties etc. Westeros at times had a problem with repetitive games using the same scenarios, while at the time he was relatively new to modding he used past games to create continuation sub mods. To make as clear as possible and using the Faith Militant as example, a past hotseat had ended surrounding a war of five kings scenario, he used the last saves of the game to flesh out a submod that had unique and updated factions to turn the scenario into a war between religion. This allowed players who had spent a lot of time on the game that had ended, who enjoyed the hotseat, the opportunity to play in a fresh game where their past victories and standings could be used. Faith Militant hotseat was very well received, as one who jumped in as a substitute for a faction very late into the game, was easilly seen the care the players had for the game.
    3 members of Gaming Staff and a former member of Gaming Staff actively disrupting and breaking SND, Gaming Staff Code of Conduct and Terms of Service, and in response of being found out and punished by Hex moving the entire sections hotseats away off site, refusing to hand over official TWC hosted event passwords, copying every TWC thread and then having to deal with threats of it wont be returned alongside the playerbase unless Hex's decision was reverted, simply shows Souls commitment and will to the role and to upholding the standards in place in TWC and Gaming Staff. Then having to spend every day responding to a wave of PMs, while at the same time trying to work out a way of moving forward, is more than appropriate to add. I added the link to insure i was not breaking SND or any other forms of TOS by linking to a Hex's post and stance about the matter, and as a reference to the derailing that i knew would come.
    He made the concept into an official series, hosted by GS. While creating a standard of how these games are managed and organised. Also updating the awards and creating a new system of how these are handed out. The progression of the series, especially in Westeros, had gone through many submod developments and is now developing into their own mods, with unique maps, inbuilt guides for admins and players.

    As stated in the OP, i had not enough space to post full details on every subject, and invited anyone to ask questions about anything i posted so i could respond, such as now. The Curia membership do not hold a great knowledge on the hotseat sections nor on what Gaming Staff do, which has dramatically changed since you were GS, in which is the main reason i presented the application in a way so i could respond to such queries.
    I'm glad you replied Parfix, you clarified quite a bit. Hopefully now people who aren't well versed in hotseating have some context before they make a decision.

    I still have concerns though about the App.
    As Head of Hotseating, he's involved by default in every "controversy" and by that standard would never be viable for any reward.
    You have to acknowledge the fact that this is unprecedented. Usually these "controversies" are based on one or two individuals getting moderation attention for starting a flame war. Personalities like Mithridates, Invicta, Uriyaca and myself have all caused massive fights over Hotseats, but none quite like this. This obviously isn't just some ToS break,at stake here. This is a, for whatever reason, personal fight between two groups that have very different visions of Hotseating and TWC as a whole.

    The Westeros section was a complete mess, with far too many unsustainable active games and far too many inactive games, with it all revolving around 3-4 individuals as either players or admins holding it together.
    Could Soul indirectly be blamed for this? I think not but their is an argument that the massive influx he brought destabilized the community for a little bit, nonetheless it doesn't make him any less deserving for this award.

    3 members of Gaming Staff and a former member of Gaming Staff actively disrupting and breaking SND, Gaming Staff Code of Conduct and Terms of Service, and in response of being found out and punished by Hex moving the entire sections hotseats away off site, refusing to hand over official TWC hosted event passwords, copying every TWC thread and then having to deal with threats of it wont be returned alongside the playerbase unless Hex's decision was reverted, simply shows Souls commitment and will to the role and to upholding the standards in place in TWC and Gaming Staff. Then having to spend every day responding to a wave of PMs, while at the same time trying to work out a way of moving forward, is more than appropriate to add. I added the link to insure i was not breaking SND or any other forms of TOS by linking to a Hex's post and stance about the matter, and as a reference to the derailing that i knew would come.
    How does any of that add to Soul's application? Sure you said that it shows his, "commitment and will to the role and to upholding the standards in place in TWC and Gaming Staff" but does it really?
    I am glad you went into detail about it in this post though, that's good.

    He made the concept into an official series, hosted by GS.
    So? He took an idea we were all using and slapped some cool art on the OP and put [GS] in its title, its neat and tidy but it isn't a significant contribution to the site.

    This post should have had a before and after timeline describing the Hotseating community. You should've talked about how he completely "standardized" hotseating into what it is today, for better or worse.
    By even mentioning this current drama, you've just turned this into a volatile mess. The facts are that Hotseating in its current state is in its worst state in a very, very long time. Call off the award app, let the drama end and revisit this in a bit.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverknight View Post
    () Call off the award app, let the drama end and revisit this in a bit.
    Yes, I noticed this being mentioned before by a few others and I agree. This is another award thread that has been 'polluted' by a lot of accusations and unsavoury stuff being posted. Most of it can't be checked anyway by us 'ordinary Citizens' and it severely takes away from what a discussion about awarding somebody with a large award should be IMO. It's disappointing that this conflict has not yet been resolved one way or the other, leaving us with this mess this discussion now has become.

    As it stands, I won't be voting, which would be a first for me since becoming a Citizen.

    Citizenised by Shankbot - Patron of b0Gia - House de Bodemloze

  16. #56
    General Brewster's Avatar The Flying Dutchman
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    Default Re: [Award] SoulGamesInc for Novus

    Everyone,

    I am going to close this down. I encourage that further down the line this venture will be revisited but at this moment it's simply not viable and I am of the opinion the warning's of both Flinn, Hader and myself are being ignored.

    The Curator,
    Brewster.

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