Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

[Razor]

Thanks Yukinari. Just so you know, I do make use of Nobunaga's Ambition: Sphere of Influence to draw inspiration from it in terms of characters and settlements, except for those instances that are inaccurate according to my info. Sometimes that game uses castles that aren't even built yet in the available scenarios.

As for your request, I just happened to have Shikoku redone with exra mountain passes and forts, so here you go. I'm still unsure about keeping Motoyama castle as a settlement. I might turn it into a fort, together with Seifukuji castle which is held by the Shoni clan next to Muranaka (Saga) castle of the Ryuzoji clan on Kyushu.

[Razor]

I was just reading about the conquest of Shikoku by Chosokabe Motochika using the pass towards Hakuchi castle, and invading the rest of the island from that castle using parttime and ill-equipped peasant troops, as opposed to the professional and well-equipped troops of Oda Nobunaga and Toyotomi Hideyoshi.

Also, I've come up with a few ideas.

Something that sort of bothered me was the use of garrison scripts, where troops pop-up when a settlement is besieged, seemingly out of nowhere and without a clear justification other than that the settlement shouldn't be conquered that easily. I'd like to include a building called a "Beacon". This Beacon building will alarm local peasants and samurai in the region of the enemy that's nearby and about to attack the settlement, allowing them reinforce the garrison to defend the settlement. This would justify the spawning of extra garrison troops by script in the settlement, giving a number of units (3-4) to the original owner of the settlement and a smaller number of units (1-2) to any new owner of the settlement.

Also, it's quite inevitable that factions/clans will be killed off while playing the campaign (obviously) and sometimes it will make you sad to see a particular clan disappear just like that. For example, I could imagine seeing a human player playing the Oda clan or the Imagawa clan killing off the Tokugawa clan, that starts with just 1 region (albeit with above-mentioned Beacon). Also it may just get a little bit boring to see the map colored with just your own faction colors after a while. To counter this and to allow a bit of roleplaying, I'm looking to include the ability to resurrect dead factions and let them join you as an ally. I plan to do that by using a building "Restore Clan X" that you can only build in their core region once the faction is dead. Once that building is built it will spawn an army of that faction led by a family member in the region. After that you can give that faction regions using diplomacy.
For this to work I would have to give factions the so-called horde ability, i.e. allow them to continue to live on when all their settlements have been conquered. After all, they still might have family members, armies and additional forts somewhere on the map. And still, if all family members die, they will still be killed/turn rebel. After which you can then resurrect them using the mechanic explained above. It still needs to be fleshed out and tested, but I feel like this could be a great addition to the mod.

EDIT: Oof! I had to backtrack a little, because I couldn't start the campaign anymore after a few small changes that I made. I couldn't find the error so I ended up going back to an earlier build and reimplement all changes back in from scratch. It's a bit of a puzzle, but things go relatively smoothly so far. So, remember to make backups of your builds regularly when you work on a mod.

[Gigantus]

Previously killed factions can be resurrected without using the annoying horde function: put them on re_emergent in descr_strat and then spawn them via script.

[Razor]

Previously killed factions can be resurrected without using the annoying horde function: put them on re_emergent in descr_strat and then spawn them via script.

Sure, but factions do get killed and the remaining armies and family members do turn rebel once they lose their last province. Since I'm using permanent forts as minor castles. I would like to keep factions alive if they happen to occupy just forts and 0 provinces as well.

[Gigantus]

If memory serves everything goes to the rebels BEFORE the regular horde spawn happens. Might need to test that.

[Razor]

If memory serves everything goes to the rebels BEFORE the regular horde spawn happens. Might need to test that.

I just tested it and everything worked as intended; If a family member is leading an army and the last region is lost, the faction will just continue to live on. If the last family member is in the besieged settlement and the settlement is lost, then a small horde army will spawn with a family member as faction leader on the run. I might have to designate all regions as horde targets though...

[Gigantus]

Thanks for making that effort to confirm what exactly happens.

[Razor]

Thanks for making that effort to confirm what exactly happens.

[Razor]

So, one day I got tired of doing campaign map stuff and I thought it would be a good idea to update the textures of the battle banners for once. Guess what? It turns out that it's actually possible to modify the models too! "Well, well" I thought. And so, here we are left with proper Japanese nobori flags as battle banners for units! I had to dig up Milkshape from somewhere, and my God, that program is clunky as hell. More often than not I'm battling the program itself to achieve a seemingly simple thing. But I guess it does get the job done eventually.

I plan to use the nobori flag for the regular units and the square o uma jirushi designs for the general unit. I will use smaller versions of both the nobori and o uma jirushi as xp flags, allowing more designs and colors that are different from the standard faction flags. For the royal standard I will use a variety of hata jirushi designs acting as personal banners for faction family members.

As if that wasn't enough already it appears that also the strat map banner models can be edited (albeit with caution). So I've implemented proper Japanese standards for the strat map as well.

Anyway, gotta continue working on the battle banners!

[Dead*Man*Wilson]

This mod is shaping up very nicely. Kudos for tackling such an ambitious project!

[Razor]

This mod is shaping up very nicely. Kudos for tackling such an ambitious project!

Thanks.

This test battle is showing the general idea of how I plan to use variations of banners when units gain more experience. Note that the units in this pic have maximum experience and therefore show a ridiculously large amount of banners.

[Collateral_dmg]

Absolutely beautiful That's exactly what I was talking to you about! Now if only units can have different sashimono, the mod would be perfection Also, it seems you're going with some historical accuracy when it comes to nobori. So would you consider the same when it comes to the big flags on campaign and in battle, or will you keep the same colors like in previous shogun games? It's just a little weird seeing green Shimazu when the nobori and hata jirushi are white/black or blue and red.

I'll drop you a couple more links I found when searching for stuff I wanted to make, mainly family mons (wikimedia actually has quite a large sample of mons of all shapes and sizes):
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C..._family_crests

And a japanese page that talks about all the different famlies. Google translate will help you here
http://www2.harimaya.com/sengoku/bukemon.html

I assume you already saw paintings of Emmanuel Valerio. If not here's some of his stuff https://s87.photobucket.com/user/eva...ml?sort=3&o=19 if you ever want to go into the 3d nobori (which would be very cool indeed).

All in all this is really shaping up nicely. Good luck and keep us updated!

Edit: Oh and I see you made different spear models for spear units. Super cool stuff, adds a lot of flavour and breaks up the monotony

[Razor]

Absolutely beautiful That's exactly what I was talking to you about! Now if only units can have different sashimono, the mod would be perfection Also, it seems you're going with some historical accuracy when it comes to nobori. So would you consider the same when it comes to the big flags on campaign and in battle, or will you keep the same colors like in previous shogun games? It's just a little weird seeing green Shimazu when the nobori and hata jirushi are white/black or blue and red.

I'll drop you a couple more links I found when searching for stuff I wanted to make, mainly family mons (wikimedia actually has quite a large sample of mons of all shapes and sizes):
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C..._family_crests

And a japanese page that talks about all the different famlies. Google translate will help you here
http://www2.harimaya.com/sengoku/bukemon.html

I assume you already saw paintings of Emmanuel Valerio. If not here's some of his stuff https://s87.photobucket.com/user/eva...ml?sort=3&o=19 if you ever want to go into the 3d nobori (which would be very cool indeed).

All in all this is really shaping up nicely. Good luck and keep us updated!

Edit: Oh and I see you made different spear models for spear units. Super cool stuff, adds a lot of flavour and breaks up the monotony

Thanks for the comments.

Oh sure, the sashimono can certainly have different colors and like I said before I definitely get your point. However you do have to keep in mind that units and factions need to be recognizable for players. You get to a point where factions will have duplicate colors or too similar faction colors. For example, the Uesugi have dark blue and red as faction colors, but preferably I'd let them have dark blue and white, but that would coflict with the faction colors of the Date clan that already has dark blue and white. What's worse is that colors weren't set in stone and different branch families used the same kamon, but different colors. It really is a bit of a mess. It's even a bit of a stretch to use different colors and designs within units, because banners in this period were quite uniform, especially within units (unless they were higher ranking samurai). I could make a few changes here and there, but there will always be a number of clans that will get stuck with "weird" colors and for now it's easier to stick to colors for factions that people are more familiar with.

But if you have any suggestions of your own about faction colors, please give them. Provide faction list with colors that you'd like the factions to have and I'll see what I can do.

About the 3D standards, I'm still unsure if I want to include them as royal standards or as standards carried by actual standard carriers. Using them as royal standards will make them unique and these standards will be displayed next to the unit flags, but there can only be one design per faction. Also, it would be impossible to include the personal hata jirushi standards. Having it carried by an actual standard carrier will allow for more variety, but will cause it to be carried on horseback, which I hate to see.

Thanks or the links by the way! I've already gathered quite a few images made by Emmanual Valerio using just google, but the link you provided is even better!

[Collateral_dmg]

I guess it all depends on how 'historical' you want to get with the mod. The ashigaru definitely wore the same sashimono, and like you said samurai had their family sashimono. And of course I agree that it will be easier for the player to quickly recognize his units, but then again look at Rome 2. There is such huge variety in armours of factions, and many faction types (e.g. hellenistic factions) have the same armour type. When you see battles in R2 it's a total cluster where you can hardly recognize who is who unless you look hard (at least among the factions with similar armour). The big unit flags are therefore there to easily recognize friend from foe, but if you want to go to cinematic view and enjoy the battle, you will have a harder time Also look at the medieval 1212 mod for attila. It looks beautiful with such a huge amount of variety. People love it exactly for that reason of accuracy and detail.

When I say different sashimono in units, I don't mean a ton of variety, but maybe 2-3 different types (or colors if you will, cuz like you said the mons were usually the same within a family) just to demonstrate the branches. Maybe you can do something like this: The major clans like takeda, oda and shimazu can have 1-2 sashimono, as their armies were bigger and they were more united (in case of takeda for example you can add a sanada sashimono as they were retainers); and the smaller clans like kono, yamana or ito can have a bit more variety, displaying sashimono from the minor clans from their starting regions (kind of displaying a union of more smaller clans under one banner), if you get what I mean. I know you can't make like 100 factions (and that would be kinda pointless), so my idea is to display the historical colorfulness of japan with the different sashimono in units (the experience flags are already a great addition).

As for the clan colors. Well, I would say screw shogun 2 and go historical Why make flags that are exactly the same as S2? I would play S2 if I want such colors. People like new things and more variety, believe me Of course, this all depends on you as it's your work.

I'll take a look at the clans you plan to make (unless you changed something) and see how I would 'paint' them. But shimazu for instance I would make white/black, like you already did on the small flags. Uesugi and date are a bit problematic indeed. For what it's worth, Kagetoras hata jirushi was white with black mon. So maybe strat flag can be that, and the experience flags and sashimono can be blue/red and white/black. Date can be blue/gold (pretty much like in S2), with blue or black, and white sashimono.

Here's a thread of E. Valerio on samurai archives with a ton of pics http://forumarchive.samurai-archives...er=asc&start=0. Sadly the pics are blurred for some reason, but when I go on my phone they are visible (?). But I guess you already saw plently of those.

[Razor]

I guess it all depends on how 'historical' you want to get with the mod. The ashigaru definitely wore the same sashimono, and like you said samurai had their family sashimono. And of course I agree that it will be easier for the player to quickly recognize his units, but then again look at Rome 2. There is such huge variety in armours of factions, and many faction types (e.g. hellenistic factions) have the same armour type. When you see battles in R2 it's a total cluster where you can hardly recognize who is who unless you look hard (at least among the factions with similar armour). The big unit flags are therefore there to easily recognize friend from foe, but if you want to go to cinematic view and enjoy the battle, you will have a harder time Also look at the medieval 1212 mod for attila. It looks beautiful with such a huge amount of variety. People love it exactly for that reason of accuracy and detail.

When I say different sashimono in units, I don't mean a ton of variety, but maybe 2-3 different types (or colors if you will, cuz like you said the mons were usually the same within a family) just to demonstrate the branches. Maybe you can do something like this: The major clans like takeda, oda and shimazu can have 1-2 sashimono, as their armies were bigger and they were more united (in case of takeda for example you can add a sanada sashimono as they were retainers); and the smaller clans like kono, yamana or ito can have a bit more variety, displaying sashimono from the minor clans from their starting regions (kind of displaying a union of more smaller clans under one banner), if you get what I mean. I know you can't make like 100 factions (and that would be kinda pointless), so my idea is to display the historical colorfulness of japan with the different sashimono in units (the experience flags are already a great addition).

As for the clan colors. Well, I would say screw shogun 2 and go historical Why make flags that are exactly the same as S2? I would play S2 if I want such colors. People like new things and more variety, believe me Of course, this all depends on you as it's your work.

I'll take a look at the clans you plan to make (unless you changed something) and see how I would 'paint' them. But shimazu for instance I would make white/black, like you already did on the small flags. Uesugi and date are a bit problematic indeed. For what it's worth, Kagetoras hata jirushi was white with black mon. So maybe strat flag can be that, and the experience flags and sashimono can be blue/red and white/black. Date can be blue/gold (pretty much like in S2), with blue or black, and white sashimono.

Here's a thread of E. Valerio on samurai archives with a ton of pics http://forumarchive.samurai-archives...er=asc&start=0. Sadly the pics are blurred for some reason, but when I go on my phone they are visible (?). But I guess you already saw plently of those.

I've got to say, that I've grown to dislike the green Shimazu more and more, seeing that the Shimazu banners look clearly different on paintings depicting the battle of Sekigahara or the Satsuma rebellion in the mid-19th century and since I'm reworking the battle banners, I might as well look into updating some of the faction colors and symbols. On a similar note I dislike the current colors of the Imagawa (black on white) and the Hojo (yellow on blue). In fact these two could very well be switched as the Hojo used black on white at the time and the Imagawa yellow/gold on blue. However, since the Shimazu also used black on white, should I be using these colors for the Shimazu and use dark blue on white for the Hojo, or the other way around? A picture of Emmanuel Valerio also has the Shimazu showing dark blue on white as well as black on white, so both are IMO quite acceptable. Also, our beloved Mori clan under Mori Motonari also used black on white and it only became white on red under Mori Terumoto. Anyway, it's this kind of considerations that I'm dealing with and some sacrifices have to be made.

Anyway, I'll consider your advice about the differently colored sashimono.

[Aragornnn]

I've been watching the progress of the mod for months, and now that they touched on the theme of faction colors, I just want to say that, being 1 culture, therefore, they are the same armies (except for individual faction units), it wouldn't be fun to see 2 factions with the same color in battle, if you can not get the variety in unity models between different factions in a mod, try to keep the variety of colors between them, such as vanilla games.Use google translator, I hope my point of view is understood

[Collateral_dmg]

Yes I see the struggle haha. Most of the big clans had the white and black flags, Hojo as well. But at least Hojo were quite colorful, having yellow, red, blue, white and black regiments. So you can get away with them being blue I guess, and keep Shimazu white/black? I'm not sure about Imagawa, but didn't they also have white/black banner? I do like their color in S2, kind of bluish grey with gold mon. For Mori, maybe make the strat flag white/black and the experience flags and sashimono red/white? But I suppose that's not terribly necessary. Like Aragornnn said, having clans in same colors is confusing.

I found the Samurai Sourcebook in pdf, if you want to go deeper https://epdf.pub/the-samurai-sourcebook.html

Also all of the evalerio pics in one place http://www.johnstuart.biz/historical...samurai_ba.htm

[Razor]

I've been watching the progress of the mod for months, and now that they touched on the theme of faction colors, I just want to say that, being 1 culture, therefore, they are the same armies (except for individual faction units), it wouldn't be fun to see 2 factions with the same color in battle, if you can not get the variety in unity models between different factions in a mod, try to keep the variety of colors between them, such as vanilla games.Use google translator, I hope my point of view is understood

Not only would it be not fun, it would also be confusing as hell. But you're right, I should try to keep a decent amount of variety.

Yes I see the struggle haha. Most of the big clans had the white and black flags, Hojo as well. But at least Hojo were quite colorful, having yellow, red, blue, white and black regiments. So you can get away with them being blue I guess, and keep Shimazu white/black? I'm not sure about Imagawa, but didn't they also have white/black banner? I do like their color in S2, kind of bluish grey with gold mon. For Mori, maybe make the strat flag white/black and the experience flags and sashimono red/white? But I suppose that's not terribly necessary. Like Aragornnn said, having clans in same colors is confusing.

I found the Samurai Sourcebook in pdf, if you want to go deeper https://epdf.pub/the-samurai-sourcebook.html

Also all of the evalerio pics in one place http://www.johnstuart.biz/historical...samurai_ba.htm

I've decided to make the Shimazu white/dark blue. The white/black banners shown in paintings of Sekigahara are the colors of a branch family of the Shimazu while the colors of the ruling family were at the time white/dark blue. Hojo will probably be white/black. Imagawa will be blue/yellow gold. The Uesugi will probably be dark blue/white and the Date blue/white. IMO the different colors of blue are different enough to tell one apart from the other.

Thanks for the links! That's quite a collection. I've also come across this one: http://francois.beauvois2.free.fr/sources/Sengoku.pdf
Useful stuff for this mod.

Also, to my knowledge those aren't all of the Emmanuel Valerio's pics in there. I have seen a few others that aren't posted on that website.

[King Athelstan]

This is shaping up very nicely, looking forward to see how it progresses!

[Collateral_dmg]

Post #200!!

Seems like you're really going detailed with this, I can't complain haha. I agree about the flags, it's a good choice.

And since you inspired me to start a project of my own in S2 a while back, I made a little bit of progress as well, mostly doing retexturing for now. Hopefully it gives you some inspiration in return

Some screenshots. An unlikely alliance of Date and Shimazu heh

Keep us updated as always!