Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

[R.P. Gryphus]

Ultimately I still plan to rework them so that they have a similar style that resembles the portrait style of RTW and M2TW.

I think that's what bothered me then. I think you should keep the portraits as they are and just sharpen them 2 notch and it should be perfect, but it's really up to you.

[Razor]

I think that's what bothered me then. I think you should keep the portraits as they are and just sharpen them 2 notch and it should be perfect, but it's really up to you.

Here's a comparison shot of the portraits in their original state and after reworking them. Some portraits need a lot of reworking, others only minimal. It's just that the portraits vary in color, lighting and sometimes in style and I try to harmonize them in some way. At the moment I have some 130 portraits, however I'm not equally happy with every one of them. But hey, at least there's something.

[R.P. Gryphus]

So it's just my opinion, and want to state that I totally respect your choice and vision, but I think it is a bit of a waste of time SINCE I think the portrait are already just perfect as they are, no matter some nuance they might have from one another. But that said, if you feel it gives a better feel to alter them the way you do, that's the way the mod needs to go. I might be bias or something, but it just that I feel these portraits give a good feel of old medieval time, a painting of ancient characters from an ancient world. And leaving them as they are would save you much time to do other things. Anyway, keep doing what you love, I'm sure there's way more people waiting for your mod than those that actually expressed it in this thread. It will be a hit for sure!

[Razor]

So it's just my opinion, and want to state that I totally respect your choice and vision, but I think it is a bit of a waste of time SINCE I think the portrait are already just perfect as they are, no matter some nuance they might have from one another. But that said, if you feel it gives a better feel to alter them the way you do, that's the way the mod needs to go. I might be bias or something, but it just that I feel these portraits give a good feel of old medieval time, a painting of ancient characters from an ancient world. And leaving them as they are would save you much time to do other things. Anyway, keep doing what you love, I'm sure there's way more people waiting for your mod than those that actually expressed it in this thread. It will be a hit for sure!

Sure, I understand, but personally speaking I find it very hard to empathize with a character whose portrait looks cartoony or just silly or in any other way off compared to other portraits. It's something that I personally experience with Total War mods and submods and even normal Total War releases.

[Aragornnn]

I have another question in your mod xD, the "Toyotomi Loyalist" faction, it is as if you are preparing another campaign in sekigahara haha, but seriously, would it not be better to use that faction space for the hatakeyama clan or another clan? i don't understand its existence in this mod.Sorry for errors, google traductor.

[Razor]

I have another question in your mod xD, the "Toyotomi Loyalist" faction, it is as if you are preparing another campaign in sekigahara haha, but seriously, would it not be better to use that faction space for the hatakeyama clan or another clan? i don't understand its existence in this mod.Sorry for errors, google traductor.

Well-spotted! I could have used that faction slot for another faction like the Hatakeyama clan, but that would add little to the game. Besides that the Hatakeyama were split into multiple branches and representing them as just rebels wouldn't be inappropriate. Instead, I wanted to use that faction slot for a faction to stir things up and have some kind of endgame mechanic/event where you end up with something akin to the situation leading to the battle of Sekigahara.

The list is a bit outdated. I used the pope faction for the Toyotomi clan and used another faction to represent the loyalists of the Toyotomi/imperial court cause. However, I felt that it didn't quite work out the way I intended it. Right now the pope faction is renamed to the Imperial Court again and the Toyotomi Loyalists have been reverted back to the Toyotomi clan. I might go back and forth on this a little testing stuff for this mechanic to see what works and what not.

[Frunk]

Off-topic posts have been deleted.

[R.P. Gryphus]

Not sure if you already have this, but here's some event pictures for your mod. I don't have as many as I'd wish (only 131), but it is better than having none I guess loll. They are hard to come by.



Attachment 361475

[Razor]

Not sure if you already have this, but here's some event pictures for your mod. I don't have as many as I'd wish (only 131), but it is better than having none I guess loll. They are hard to come by.



Attachment 361475

I already use very similar ones for my mod, but I'm not sure if I will keep them or use Shogun 2's style eventually instead. Still thanks for trying to help out, because this is good stuff.

[Aragornnn]

I am aware that the hatakeyama clan was divided into three branches (I don't know if there are more) and 2 of them had at least a small participation at that time, but after what you said, it is better to continue with your idea, if anything goes wrong, you can still implement this clan or ichijo xD

Edit: Oh I see you added to the imperial court (is it the same as saying ashikaga clan?), that's good

[Razor]

I am aware that the hatakeyama clan was divided into three branches (I don't know if there are more) and 2 of them had at least a small participation at that time, but after what you said, it is better to continue with your idea, if anything goes wrong, you can still implement this clan or ichijo xD

Edit: Oh I see you added to the imperial court (is it the same as saying ashikaga clan?), that's good

It's a bummer that I can only have 31 factions. If I could I would have added a lot more factions.

About the Imperial Court, well, yes and no, but in practice: yes. When I first started this mod I intended to use the Ashikaga Shogunate as the pope faction where clans try to influence the shogunate and potentially use it as a puppet, but that idea was way too fancy for M2TW. Also, the whole point of this mod is to eventually overthrow the Ashikaga Shogunate and become Shogun yourself. Using the Ashikaga Shogunate as pope faction rendered the whole pope mechanic moot as you can kill/remove popes and elect new popes, but once you run out of cardinals (and there would be no one to elect as pope), the seat becomes vacant, but the whole mechanic would still be there. And also, how do you get your faction leader to become the Shogun if only 'cardinals' could potentially become Shogun? I felt that I had to use something else to represent the central government and using the Imperial Court would be more appropriate.

[Darhan]

How is work on the mod going? really looking forward to this wonderful mod. thank you for the work!

[Razor]

How is work on the mod going? really looking forward to this wonderful mod. thank you for the work!

Thanks and your welcome. Work is progressing steadily. I've reworked all the faction symbols and banners and changed some of the faction colors to make them look more authentic, while at the same time making them look not too similar to one another. I've also reworked the diplomat model and added the new faction colors to the textures.

I've finished placing a bunch of permanent forts on Kyushu and Shikoku and the Kanto and Shinano area (thank God for Google maps).

As of now I'm doing some work on models and textures for units to get my mind off the campaign and to figure out how I will be organizing the space in my textures, starting with reworking the weapon models and textures. The yari variants and katana and nodachi variants are basically finished, but need some rework. I've nearly finished the teppo from scratch (the original from the Imjin War mod was a complete disaster).

So in short: all is going well. Most time will be spent on placing forts on the campaign map as it involves a lot of research and adding changes to the map. However this also allows me to fix the geography and open the map up by adding new additional passes.

[Virian]

These look pretty interesting. I can't wait to try this mod when it comes out.

I'm also curious of the clan in the east of the map. It might make sense historically to have it alone there but all I'm seeing is another Russia with no enemies and plenty of rebel settlements up for taking.

[Razor]

These look pretty interesting. I can't wait to try this mod when it comes out.

I'm also curious of the clan in the east of the map. It might make sense historically to have it alone there but all I'm seeing is another Russia with no enemies and plenty of rebel settlements up for taking.

Yes, that is a legitimate point you make. The clan in the northeast is the Nanbu clan. The northeast is a bit of a backwater and less developed compared to the rest of Japan. You're right that it has no enemies in its immediate surroundings, but they still need to deal with rebel settlements. Also, the Date and the Mogami tend to expand northwards towards the Nanbu so it's not like the Nanbu will simply take all of them. It can also be balanced out by things like poor economy, few troops and tough rebels etc. to deter any easy expansion.

[LordKainES]

Thanks.

This test battle is showing the general idea of how I plan to use variations of banners when units gain more experience. Note that the units in this pic have maximum experience and therefore show a ridiculously large amount of banners.

Whoa! wonderful! seeing that army with plenty of banners as they really wore on japanese battlefields right?

BTW what an extraordinary mod are you doing!!! I just discovered it recently and never expected to see something like this on Medieval II...

I have a question:

Will you mod also the siege maps? I mean using original japanese castle models and so?

[Collateral_dmg]

Great to see you're making progress bro

I was also wondering about the sieges but never asked. I imagine there's a way to make it work. With so many years of modding behind M2 there must be plenty of knowledge and resources. It would be very cool to see some siege weapons like rams that the japanese actually used.

Keep it up man, it seems so close to the finish line!

[Razor]

Whoa! wonderful! seeing that army with plenty of banners as they really wore on japanese battlefields right?

BTW what an extraordinary mod are you doing!!! I just discovered it recently and never expected to see something like this on Medieval II...

I have a question:

Will you mod also the siege maps? I mean using original japanese castle models and so?

Thanks. Yeah, that's pretty much what those banners looked like. The banners on those pics are really outdated though. The only thing is that each regiment had its own banner and the banner variety was more between regiments and not so much within regiments, but we've got to work within the limitations of M2TW so it's what it is.

Great to see you're making progress bro

I was also wondering about the sieges but never asked. I imagine there's a way to make it work. With so many years of modding behind M2 there must be plenty of knowledge and resources. It would be very cool to see some siege weapons like rams that the japanese actually used.

Keep it up man, it seems so close to the finish line!

To answer both of you, I would love to add actual Japanese castles so siege battles look more authentic. The Imjin War mod uses Japanese castles, so perhaps I will include them. However, I'm a bit uncomfortable including whole assets from other mods and releasing them without clear permission from the Imjin War mod team. And if I'm perfectly honest, I'm not 100% satisfied with those Japanese castles either. I'd like to take things a step further and to have more accurate castles with several layers of defense and moats and such. It's definitely something that can be done, but it's an area of modding that requires specific knowledge and it's not something a whole lot of people can do. I have never tried it and I probably won't try it until after I've finished the unit models. I have disabled siege towers and ladders for that matter (so that both won't show up in custom battles) and I only allow battering rams for now.

I'm not sure if I'm close to the finish line, but I'm definitely somewhere past the middle.

[Virian]

Yes, that is a legitimate point you make. The clan in the northeast is the Nanbu clan. The northeast is a bit of a backwater and less developed compared to the rest of Japan. You're right that it has no enemies in its immediate surroundings, but they still need to deal with rebel settlements. Also, the Date and the Mogami tend to expand northwards towards the Nanbu so it's not like the Nanbu will simply take all of them. It can also be balanced out by things like poor economy, few troops and tough rebels etc. to deter any easy expansion.

Still only having one direction to defend from is a pretty big deal. Economic problems can be solved by the players making the most out of the troops they're given on the campaign map and thus not needing to worry about replacing their troops as much. With a bit of cheese or clever positioning you can quite literally kill an army bigger than yours with less than 10% casualties(even on H/H and VH/VH) which is pretty damn sweet when you only need one or two armies to go further and further.

The only thing making the beginning harder is make the game slower as it take the player a bit longer to conquer but there is little challenge once the settlements have grown numerous enough regardless of their development and the Nanbu clan seems like the ideal place for such a thing.

Unrelated to the Nanbu clan issue, this map reminds me with the problems I had with the Americas expansion. The problem with the DLC wasn't that the Meso faction didn't advance and the like or that the Europeans were a thing but the fact that the war there was a grinding mess. There were no unexpected strategic moves you could do like in the European maps( like make a sea invasion from the other part of the Mediterranean ) everything was just take army to the nearest enemy, fight it (those fights were fun when against the Europeans), sack city and repeat, with the only trouble being getting my troops there. As such I feel like I need to ask if you have something planned, like some events that would make the game not just an endless grind but bring an element of uncertainty and urgency like the mongol invasion, jihads/crusades , emergent factions, re-emergent factions, hordes and the like.

[Razor]

Still only having one direction to defend from is a pretty big deal. Economic problems can be solved by the players making the most out of the troops they're given on the campaign map and thus not needing to worry about replacing their troops as much. With a bit of cheese or clever positioning you can quite literally kill an army bigger than yours with less than 10% casualties(even on H/H and VH/VH) which is pretty damn sweet when you only need one or two armies to go further and further.

The only thing making the beginning harder is make the game slower as it take the player a bit longer to conquer but there is little challenge once the settlements have grown numerous enough regardless of their development and the Nanbu clan seems like the ideal place for such a thing.

You're basically describing every Total War game. You can't nerf human intelligence. All you can do is figuring out a way to help the AI by giving them an edge over the human player like certain bonuses (extended vision on the map, higher fertility rate, money scripts etc.) without making it too stupid. I could also make it more difficult for the player, but I don't want to hamper the human player too much, causing the game to be frustrating. I guess it's a balancing act and it would need testing once I get to that point.

Unrelated to the Nanbu clan issue, this map reminds me with the problems I had with the Americas expansion. The problem with the DLC wasn't that the Meso faction didn't advance and the like or that the Europeans were a thing but the fact that the war there was a grinding mess. There were no unexpected strategic moves you could do like in the European maps( like make a sea invasion from the other part of the Mediterranean ) everything was just take army to the nearest enemy, fight it (those fights were fun when against the Europeans), sack city and repeat, with the only trouble being getting my troops there. As such I feel like I need to ask if you have something planned, like some events that would make the game not just an endless grind but bring an element of uncertainty and urgency like the mongol invasion, jihads/crusades , emergent factions, re-emergent factions, hordes and the like.

Yes, but thing is that the geography of Japan is how it is. The only thing I can do (and am doing) is opening up the map by adding additional passes through mountains in order to prevent the map from becoming a corridor map with only one or two corridors to choose from to get from one side to the other and grinding your way towards it. Sea invasions are of course still possible. I do understand the frustration of continuously grinding your way from one end of the map to the other.
To counter this I intend to implement is some sort of Kalmar Union script that makes factions join another faction when certain conditions are met (At war, owning core region of enemy faction, owning more than x amount of provinces, owning Kyoto, perhaps a morale score system for factions). At the same time I want to implement a number of 'surprise mechanics' (no, not loot boxes) by adding a faction that will turn everything upside down and inside out (like the Mongols and Timurids did in M2TW) and that will take over from whichever faction that's controlling Kyoto and Osaka/Ishiyama Honganji and x amount of provinces (similar to the Realm Divide event in Shogun 2 Total War) and that has a succession crisis because its faction leader has died. At the same time I would like to add the possibility for factions to re-emerge due to rebellion and also the option for players to reinstate a clan when it's dead. If a player owns a core region of that faction it can restore a clan by building a special building. This will then strigger a script that spawns an army of that faction which will join you automatically as an ally, after which you can donate regions to it by using diplomacy.
I also want to include crusades renaming them "military campaigns" sanctioned by the imperial court.

These are the features that I had in mind. I don't know how they will turn out in the game once I've Implemented them eventually, but these are intended to make the campaign more interesting throughout the campaign, even in the late game. I get your concerns. But first I need to finish the core of the mod.