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Thread: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

  1. #141
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Hmmm that's some interesting stuff! However, I feel that having both a yari samurai unit and separate samurai heavy infantry unit armed with both naginata and yari is quite redundant. I think it's best to add naginata pole-arms to the yari samurai instead. By the way, a similar case can be made with the nodachi and the nagamaki. Hmmm... Another problem is that the way the samurai fought in battle - between the lines and acting as a screen and support/officers of the ashigaru - is impossible to replicate in M2TW, especially by the AI. So I'm afraid we have to take a few liberties here and there. The best representation in M2TW would be to place the yari samurai behind the nagae-yari ashigaru units.

    About the heroes being recruitable as general, I merely meant to say that I could make them recruitable as a named character so they could get their own portrait, traits and ancillaries. The game calls them a general, but that can easily be renamed to 'leader' or something like that.

    As for the red devils, I feel that it's too limiting to have them only recruitable in one specific province. Especially since the red armour was an idea that some samurai caught from another samurai. I find that it fits the idea that a general with a certain amount of dread is able to recruit red devils that are meant to scare the enemy. It also gives the player a gameplay reason for having generals with dread instead of just honor/chivalry.

    Oh sure, the links are very useful. The bulk of info is info that I already know, but there's some new stuff here and there.

  2. #142

    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Yea having 2 units using the same weapon could be a bit redundant. If it was up to me, I would keep the yari samurai but give them a bit longer spears. Not nagae yari, but a bit longer than the regular one used for close quarters. The samurai used spears anywhere from 1-3 meters. So that unit would be a kind of solid infantry in the front lines, a heavy pike/spear unit I guess. It's all mainly for unit variety. And I know about the limitations of AI and all that, I was just explaining the way tactics were used so you could get a better picture The AI will use the units in any way it sees fit I guess.

    Here's a painting of samurai on foot with long spears (it's from the book Samurai Warfare I linked you):



    There were occasions when the mounted samurai were order to go on foot. In such cases you would see them with such long spears, some up to 4m long.

    Here's a bit of info about yari https://bushido.fandom.com/wiki/Yari.

    Yes the nagamaki is similar to nodachi, but they were even rarer than nodachi, because it required a very skilled user. I don't think the nodachi was all that common either. Like the naginata, it was used both on foot and on horseback. On foot mostly used as anti cav, and on horse used as anti infantry. You could probably add a couple nagamakis to the nodachi unit.

    So the heroes characters would be able to lead armies?

    My only problem with red devils being mercenaries is that you could see them in two different armies fighting against each other. When that simply wouldn't happen cuz they are from the same clan . You could still make a mercenary unit armed with kanabo, looking all fierce and dreadful. And for highly chivalrous generals, maybe a mercenary unit like Spears of Shizugatake or something like that.
    Last edited by Collateral_dmg; September 24, 2019 at 06:54 AM.
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  3. #143
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Hmmm something to think about...
    I always thought that the nodachi required more skill than the nagamaki, since the nagamaki was a bit of a shorter naginata...

    In M2TW units can operate on their own and don't need named characters to lead them. Any named character can lead an army, so hero characters could as well in that scenario.

    As for the red devils, I see your point. I would have to test if that will happen a lot. Although you're right that historically speaking it was one specific clan that used the red color, it could very well have been used by different clans on several occasions.
    Last edited by Razor; October 24, 2019 at 12:34 PM.

  4. #144

    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Oh lol I completely forgot that armies don't need generals in older total wars. In that case the idea of such heroes is indeed pretty cool.

    Nagamaki is a wierd weapon. Somewhere between the nodachi and naginata. As far as I saw, it's extremely rare in old paintings, there's maybe a couple of them pictured throughout the centuries. Which would mean it was not your everyday weapon for the samurai.

    The red color was indeed used mostly by the Ii clan, but it wasn't exlusive to them. The red color had some meaning, but I forgot which. I think it stood for bravery and courage.
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  5. #145
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Yes, the red color had indeed such meaning and therefore resembled the oni (red devils/demons) in Japanese mythology. Several known samurai wore red and had such trademarks, such as Ii Naomasa, but also Sanada Yukimura/Nobushige and Yamagata Masakage.

  6. #146

    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Coming to think of it concerning the nagamki, it probably was easier to use than nodachi. But still the accounts of its use are rare. The mod is yours though so you have the freedom to decide which weapons to use

    Anyway, how is your progress? You mentioned you were working on buildings?
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  7. #147
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Yes, I'm working on the buildings. I had to revisit them and shuffle things around and implement a few new mechanics of which I thought they were impossible to implement. Then there's the descriptions and pictures/icons. And then tying traits and ancillaries to the new buildings. There's quite a lot to do.

    Also, here's a nice read on units in the Sengoku period: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/japa...nits-t187.html

  8. #148

    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    New mechanics, that's always nice

    Some cool stuff on that forum for sure. Too bad TW AI doesn't really apply any such tactics.

    Here's a bit more on infantry http://gunbai-militaryhistory.blogsp...-infantry.html
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  9. #149

    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Great job! I just found this mod today. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

  10. #150
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

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  11. #151
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukinari View Post
    Great job! I just found this mod today. Can't wait to see how it turns out.
    Thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by Morrowgan View Post
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  12. #152

    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Hope to get to play it!
    It's looking up to be like the quality of Rise of Three Kingdoms.

  13. #153
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    If you want I can share with you some scripts that I have done for EBII. They go from maritime raids where you can gain or lose money due to blockades and get an event, events that appear when you are being besieged or besiege a settlement (they are mostly to simulate situations that would happen during sieges), ancillaries that you gain after a battle or after mercenary service and if you take the General near the capital he will loose the ancillary and you will gain money, plenty of other stuff.

  14. #154
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fahnat View Post
    Hope to get to play it!
    It's looking up to be like the quality of Rise of Three Kingdoms.
    That would be more than great to start with. All I can say is that I'm doing the best I can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    If you want I can share with you some scripts that I have done for EBII. They go from maritime raids where you can gain or lose money due to blockades and get an event, events that appear when you are being besieged or besiege a settlement (they are mostly to simulate situations that would happen during sieges), ancillaries that you gain after a battle or after mercenary service and if you take the General near the capital he will loose the ancillary and you will gain money, plenty of other stuff.
    You have my interest. Concerning scripts nothing is set in stone. I do like scripts that add something new to the game and make events happen that would otherwise never occur in a normal non-scripted M2TW play session, but at the same time I don't want the game to be too heavy on scripts that will slow down the game. I'm not much of a scripter myself and am treading the path of scripting with care and dread at the same time with trial and error. I'm not even sure what all the possibilities are, so I'm interested in what you have come up with for EBII and what further ideas you may have.

  15. #155
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Well, after EBII releases the next patch, I will put my siege and maritime events as free resources so that may everybody use in their mods

    But are there things that you would like to have on your mod to simulate real events that you don't know how to do them? I might give some help with that.

  16. #156
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Actually, I have no idea what to include in my mod script-wise. So far I have only added a few garrison scripts, Kalmar Union scripts. Nothing revolutionary. I'm considering implementing a faction morale system like in the Imperium Romanum mod, where factions desintegrate or merge with other factions when they get below a certain morale score, but I'd have to think it through. On a similar note I would like to make it easier for factions controlling Kyoto to take over other factions, which could very well be implemented using a faction morale system.

    Perhaps you have a few ideas of your own? You mentioned events during sieges. How would that work exactly?

  17. #157
    Morrowgan's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    A faction moral system? Interesting
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  18. #158
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Yes, it's a very interesting concept. Basically factions start with a base morale score (you can set different scores for factions) and the script adds up or subtracts from the score when a faction wins or loses a battle or when a faction conquers or loses settlements. In the Imperium Romanum mod there are several mini campaigns that deal with different Roman civil war scenarios where one of the Roman factions can take over the other Roman factions by simply defeating their armies in battle and lowering the faction morale until it gets below a certain threshold after which the factions merge.

  19. #159
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    The moral system on first thought appears to be a somewhat complex script, after all you need to keep track of who fought whom, a simple point system (highest score absorbs lowest score) won't really do a satisfactory job. Worthwhile looking into for sure.



  20. #160
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    The moral system on first thought appears to be a somewhat complex script, after all you need to keep track of who fought whom, a simple point system (highest score absorbs lowest score) won't really do a satisfactory job. Worthwhile looking into for sure.
    It's true that the point system alone wouldn't do a satisfactory job. But it could be amended with conditions like diplomatic stance, number of regions owned, specific regions owned (or lost), number of allies (if possible), power ratio, economic ratio, proximity to the absorbing faction (if possible), etc.

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