Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

[Crociato78]

Also a small update. As you might have learned that work on the mod has been slow the past few months. However I'm back to modding since this week so I expect things to go faster. I'm working on finishing 3D assets such as weapons (a variety of naginata, yumi longbow, quivers, teppo ammo pouches). I'm currently working on a number of tetsubo/kanabo.

I also realize that I haven't shown any ashigaru yet. Oh well, here are a few shots of some of the stuff I've been working on:

Congratulations Razor!

You are doing a great work!

Very nice your units and weapons (great details)!


I don't remember if I have already asked you, by any chance did you manage to convert some models from Shogun 2 Total War?

As for the various flags (Nobori, Hata-Jirushi, Uma-Jirushi, O Uma-Jirushi, Ko Uma-Jirushi etc ...), have you created something or are you going to use some model of some mods or Shogun 2?

Are you going to downsize the ashigaru sashimono (smaller than samurai ones)?

[Crociato78]

Ah, I see. Well, too bad, I guess. If I may ask, what changes did you make on the Imjin War mod?

No problem. Here's the descr_regions.txt file that I'm using at the moment. That in combination with the map on the first page should give you all the info about regions and castles/settlements.

Thanks for the descr_regions.txt file!

I had only brought a few modifications on the Ashigaru and their sashimono.

Nothing more, then stopped.

[Razor]

Congratulations Razor!

You are doing a great work!

Very nice your units and weapons (great details)!


I don't remember if I have already asked you, by any chance did you manage to convert some models from Shogun 2 Total War?

As for the various flags (Nobori, Hata-Jirushi, Uma-Jirushi, O Uma-Jirushi, Ko Uma-Jirushi etc ...), have you created something or are you going to use some model of some mods or Shogun 2?

Are you going to downsize the ashigaru sashimono (smaller than samurai ones)?

Thanks. I try to have as much detail while still maintaining the same scale in textures as the rest of the textures that M2TW is made to work with (sort of). At least you shouldn't expect a big texture file where one half of the texture is covered by only one arm and leg and four very detailed but very big faces, or very detailed, but very big armour pieces. It looks silly when for example you have an overlay texture for blood that includes a bloody hand print and that print is the size of the hand of a baby or a giant.

I haven't converted any of the models from Shogun 2 myself, but I have a few available sent to me by Collateral_dmg. However I find them hard to use, because they are often different from how I make models for M2TW, so they're barely of any use to me directly. Often the geometry is broken into pieces as well as the corresponding textures, which doesn't really look great in M2TW. However I do take notice of them and of how CA approached the making of some of the models. Only a select few could be of somewhat direct use, but they would still need to fit the model and texture file.

As for the different flags and banners/standards, I've already replaced the vanilla M2TW flags for nobori as well as the smaller xp flags. It would be nice if I could do the other standards as well, but I haven't been able to do that as of yet and probably won't be in the near future either. But it is planned yes. I intend to replace the vanilla royal standards with Uma-jirushi variants that family members carry with them during battles.

I'm not really sure about the size of sashimono of ashigaru units specifically. I do remember reading about the size of sashimono being 1 meter in length and some 40 cm wide, but I've read about and seen sashimono being bigger and smaller, so I think I should look into it a little closer at some point in the near future. If you have more info on this particular subject, don't hesitate to share it.

Thanks for the descr_regions.txt file!

I had only brought a few modifications on the Ashigaru and their sashimono.

Nothing more, then stopped.

Ah, I see. As for the list, I don't know what your exact plans are, but I don't think I'll be including every known vassal for every region and standard rebels for all regions will be set to ikki rebels/bandits (that are not related to the organized ikko-ikki sect). If it's for your own thing then be my guest.

[Collateral_dmg]

Regarding sahimono, I never found any mention of standard size. But I remember reading an old conscription document that mentioned how each soldier should take a flag and a pole with them (as well as other armour, weapons etc.) when going to battle, it might have mentioned a specific size but I'm not sure. Although I wouldn't be surprised if there were standard lengths among daimyos. But again, it varied. So you had some clans like the Hojo, who had soldiers carrying massive flags, a couple meters tall, to represent their might as a clan. For my mod, all sashimono are the same basically. I didn't want to make a ton of variations for something that people won't really notice (like sashimono for mounted samurai being 50cm longer or whatever, who would even pay attention to that in the thick of battle). Samurai sashimono tended to be a bit bigger though, so they are more easily recognized I guess, but I wouldn't bother with it personally. What would be cool to see are the double and triple sashimonos, and various 3D designs used by different samurai and hatamoto. Maybe take a look at the old byobu screens for some inspiration, you can really find a large variety of sashimono there.

[Razor]

Regarding sahimono, I never found any mention of standard size. But I remember reading an old conscription document that mentioned how each soldier should take a flag and a pole with them (as well as other armour, weapons etc.) when going to battle, it might have mentioned a specific size but I'm not sure. Although I wouldn't be surprised if there were standard lengths among daimyos. But again, it varied. So you had some clans like the Hojo, who had soldiers carrying massive flags, a couple meters tall, to represent their might as a clan. For my mod, all sashimono are the same basically. I didn't want to make a ton of variations for something that people won't really notice (like sashimono for mounted samurai being 50cm longer or whatever, who would even pay attention to that in the thick of battle). Samurai sashimono tended to be a bit bigger though, so they are more easily recognized I guess, but I wouldn't bother with it personally. What would be cool to see are the double and triple sashimonos, and various 3D designs used by different samurai and hatamoto. Maybe take a look at the old byobu screens for some inspiration, you can really find a large variety of sashimono there.

I think it's exactly that: different from clan to clan. I don't think I'll bother with it too much. As long as it looks alright and believable. If you want there are tons of variations you could make for everything, but it's impossible to cover every variation in a mod. My goal is to have a selection that's representative of the average look of a samurai/ashigaru etc.

If you go into the area of double and triple sashimono and especially 3D designs you're already on a slippery slope there, because if you're going to use those designs you need a ton of variations to make it believable, because you can't really have a unit that consists of multiple samurai having a tombstone as sashimono for example. The double and triple sashimono design would still be appropriate for a whole unit. But then again, designs varied between clans and there were lots of variations... Argh!

[Collateral_dmg]

Haha that's exactly my problem Thankfully shogun 2 has a decent amount of these sashimono. The only way around the issue of variety in my case, is designing units specifically for every clan. It's a ton of work for sure, but I'm a kind of fanatic, so I don't mind, because in the end it will be worth it

[Crociato78]

Yes, various clans had different sizes and shapes of sashimono.


I advise you to have your standard sashimono for all factions, at the limit you can differentiate the size scale of the ashigaru from the samurai, or leave them large the same.


On the Internet you can find several pictures.

[Crociato78]

Hi Razor!


Will you add the "mon" above to the "dō" and "kabuto" of some units, on armor upgrades (Tosei-gusoku)?




What do you think of the "jurishi", small identification flags or badges worn on the back of the helmet (kasa jirushi) or on the shoulder (sode jurishi)? Don't you find it necessary to add it to units that have sashimono? Or add them to some units without sashimono?
Or add it only to the officers with armor (kozane-gusoku)?

[Razor]

Hi Razor!


Will you add the "mon" above to the "dō" and "kabuto" of some units, on armor upgrades (Tosei-gusoku)?




What do you think of the "jurishi", small identification flags or badges worn on the back of the helmet (kasa jirushi) or on the shoulder (sode jurishi)? Don't you find it necessary to add it to units that have sashimono? Or add them to some units without sashimono?
Or add it only to the officers with armor (kozane-gusoku)?

Hmmm, I certainly planned to have the mon displayed on the upgraded do and jingasa for ashigaru units but I had not really considered the smaller jirushi badges. I always had the impression that they were somewhat old-fashioned from the mid-16th century onwards and were more fitting for the earlier Sengoku period. Also, using sashimono was a lot easier for commanders to discern friend from foe from a distance, especially since armies became bigger and bigger. On a similar note, the hata-jirushi was also somewhat old-fashioned and was replaced by the nobori. At least that's my understanding of it.

[Collateral_dmg]

They did fall out of use somewhat. Like it says in that text on the picture, I guess they were used on some special occasions (ambushes, night battles etc., I do remember reading about that). In the 16th century the armies started becoming more 'uniform' when it came to the common soldier (ashigaru), which started having mons painted on their armour, along with the sashimono of course. And yes the hata-jirushi did fall out of use as well. As clans grew in power, they wanted more elaborate flags to represent them, so the uma-jirushi were born. The hata-jirushi was indeed replaced by the nobori among most clans, but when it came to 'main' flags of the daimyo, the hata-jirushi was allowed after having a certain amount of koku (I don't remember how much exactly). So you will see the smaller, and a bit more old fashioned clans I guess, having hata-jirushi instead of uma-jirushi (which, also, you were allowed to field after a certain size of your domain).

[Crociato78]

They did fall out of use somewhat. Like it says in that text on the picture, I guess they were used on some special occasions (ambushes, night battles etc., I do remember reading about that). In the 16th century the armies started becoming more 'uniform' when it came to the common soldier (ashigaru), which started having mons painted on their armour, along with the sashimono of course. And yes the hata-jirushi did fall out of use as well. As clans grew in power, they wanted more elaborate flags to represent them, so the uma-jirushi were born. The hata-jirushi was indeed replaced by the nobori among most clans, but when it came to 'main' flags of the daimyo, the hata-jirushi was allowed after having a certain amount of koku (I don't remember how much exactly). So you will see the smaller, and a bit more old fashioned clans I guess, having hata-jirushi instead of uma-jirushi (which, also, you were allowed to field after a certain size of your domain).

Yes exactly. It was used in the early Sengoku period.
I would have thought it would be useful in some units without sashimono, especially with armor units without the upgrades.
And if, in all the units that Razor will make, they have sashimonos, "jirushi" are not needed.

[Razor]

They did fall out of use somewhat. Like it says in that text on the picture, I guess they were used on some special occasions (ambushes, night battles etc., I do remember reading about that). In the 16th century the armies started becoming more 'uniform' when it came to the common soldier (ashigaru), which started having mons painted on their armour, along with the sashimono of course. And yes the hata-jirushi did fall out of use as well. As clans grew in power, they wanted more elaborate flags to represent them, so the uma-jirushi were born. The hata-jirushi was indeed replaced by the nobori among most clans, but when it came to 'main' flags of the daimyo, the hata-jirushi was allowed after having a certain amount of koku (I don't remember how much exactly). So you will see the smaller, and a bit more old fashioned clans I guess, having hata-jirushi instead of uma-jirushi (which, also, you were allowed to field after a certain size of your domain).

Yes exactly. It was used in the early Sengoku period.
I would have thought it would be useful in some units without sashimono, especially with armor units without the upgrades.
And if, in all the units that Razor will make, they have sashimonos, "jirushi" are not needed.

I plan to have the sashimono for regular units such as basic ashigaru and samurai units. I plan to give the artillery crew neither the sashimono nor jirushi as they weren't expected to fight in melee anyway. What could be argued is that jirushi could be used for irregular "hero units" and other specialised units that carry specialised weapons such as kanabo or nodachi etc. It's at least something I consider doing. But really these are small details. I don't even have all units up and running (mainly because I want to include my own rather than using models from other mods that I'm not 100% happy with to begin with).

[Razor]

Also, a small update and announcement. It appears that my last employer was quite satisfied with me and decided to ask me back earlier than expected. This means that work on the mod will be slowed down again a bit. However, fear not: work on it will still continue (remember: slow but steady).

As for the update: I've finished making a set of kanabo variants. To have a sense of scale, the biggest ones are the size of a person. It's unclear as of yet which units will be using them, but I'm quite sure they will be used one way or another (probably a hero unit or mercenary unit or even a rebel unit):

[Crociato78]

Also, a small update and announcement. It appears that my last employer was quite satisfied with me and decided to ask me back earlier than expected. This means that work on the mod will be slowed down again a bit. However, fear not: work on it will still continue (remember: slow but steady).

As for the update: I've finished making a set variants of the kanabo. To have a sense of scale, the biggest ones are the size of a person. It's unclear as of yet which units will be using them, but I'm quite they will be used one way or another (probably a hero unit or mercenary unit or even a rebel unit):

The kanabō you created are very beautiful! Very detaileds!


Keep it up!

[Drtad]

This mod is looking awesome, can't wait!

[Arpy_Fighter]

When do you guys think this will be ready for? I would love to playtest if you need anyone.

[R.P. Gryphus]

Just a little something I made for fun. I'm very impatient to try this mod, after 3 years of development.

[Crociato78]

Just a little something I made for fun. I'm very impatient to try this mod, after 3 years of development.

Me too, can't wait to try this beautiful mod!

[Arpy_Fighter]

I wonder who you are gonna play xD

[Razor]

The kanabō you created are very beautiful! Very detaileds!


Keep it up!

This mod is looking awesome, can't wait!

Thanks

When do you guys think this will be ready for? I would love to playtest if you need anyone.

Just a little something I made for fun. I'm very impatient to try this mod, after 3 years of development.

Three years already? :o
Nice banner. Just a side note though: it says 'Sengoku Jidai', but this mod is called 'Sengoku' without the 'Jidai' part.

Me too, can't wait to try this beautiful mod!

I wonder who you are gonna play xD

I must confess that lately I've been tempted to work at unit models and textures and how they actually look and perform in-game rather than working towards a v0.1 release. I really really should work towards a v0.1 release and I promise I will start working on it shortly and leave the new models and textures for what they are at the moment. The new unit models won't be included in the v0.1 release, because they're all a work-in-progress so you'll get the old models from the Imjin War mod instead. You can expect to see the new units and models in a v0.2 release though.