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Thread: Another GS Announcement/Thing

  1. #1
    Hader's Avatar Things are very seldom what they seem. In my experience, they’re usually a damn sight worse.
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    Default Another GS Announcement/Thing

    This is mainly just to announce I'll be here as GS Hex for the time being. So that should mean anything GS related, which by extention just about anything hotseat related, will be what I am musing over.

    That said considering what has happened here as of late (of which I am no stranger to so don't worry on that account), I'll once again re-invite anyone in this community to PM me any questions or concerns, or anything else you wish to discuss. In all likelihood I'll have some sort of additional statement later on about things but that will be some time, and of course you're welcome to PM me in that time and any time. Just FYI, try to keep it mostly to PMs please (not that there is too much other choice anyways), mainly as my computer time is pretty limited on a day to day now and I cannot always be on here, so at the very least I get an email with your PM text that I may look at on my phone or at work so I don't have as much to catch up on all at once later.

    The Emperor protects...

  2. #2
    Hader's Avatar Things are very seldom what they seem. In my experience, they’re usually a damn sight worse.
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    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    I'm hoping to have something more substantial ready to post by tomorrow. This is no guarantee, but I'm hoping it falls together by then. I understand the wait sucks, but understand it's quite a bit to review, and I already have an incredibly busy weekend even without this. Feel free to PM me still with anything.

  3. #3
    Hader's Avatar Things are very seldom what they seem. In my experience, they’re usually a damn sight worse.
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    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    Thank you all for your patience in the recent days/weeks, and to those that have provided their input and PMed or contacted me. I'll jump right in and try to keep things somewhat short.


    As much as I wish I had all the answers right now and could make any sort of "final" decision, I've learned through investigating this all that that is not likely to happen tonight. I realize everyone in the end wishes to get back to their hotseats and have no further interruption, on top of whatever other changes you may feel necessary, but I can just tell right now that nothing super conclusive can come yet, and potentially may need to be slightly longer term.


    Suffice to say, and I am speaking in broad terms here, the bulk of what I see is most simply summarized as bias. Very little of what I hear seems to line up with other stories or facts entirely and personal biases, while expected, seem to be more at the forefront of everything. Again, I am speaking quite broadly, not exposition or towards anyone specifically. And it's the fact that I can say that so broadly that makes it both troubling and difficult to get somewhere conclusive with this.


    In an effort to keep this somewhat short still, I won't go much farther than that aside from saying I'll still be looking into it, which is about as much as I can do at this point, as much I hate to say it. So no one hesitate to still PM me with whatever, especially if you are non staff member and have something you wish to say. I may open this specific thread for public comment soon too, though for now I prefer to keep it as PMs.


    Now, I do not intend necessarily to break with SND and talking about members publically just for the sake of doing so. I don't do anything without reason. SND (staff non disclosure) means that anything that happens within staff, stays withing staff, in simple terms. This generally just applies to discussions between staff members, regardless of branch, within staff closed doors, and making sure that things discussed there that are not necessary to be public for the running of whatever branch or department. It's hard to give many specifics and easy to throw around as a reason to not talk about something, I know, but is most important in fostering a team to work together in their given area and making sure issues don't become bloated and overthought for no reason. So in that light, consider this some clarification.


    Simply put, breaking SND is strong enough grounds for removal from staff in most cases. What constitutes SND is outlined in rules for staff that all know of when taking any staff position. So there is no excuse for ignorance when breaking it. Yes, perhaps there is room for confusion along a grey line of what actually may or may not be against SND, and those have almost always been discussed and dealth with appropriately by all parties. Some GS members knowingly broke these rules, and disregarded more proper channels for dealing with issues, and thus suffered the known potential consequence of it - removal from staff.


    The reason for Jadli's recent ban is, in short, for misrepresenting of himself and/or GS operations. This does bring to light that perhaps clarification or restructuring of some hotseating rules may need to happen, but suffice to say that at the time certain things were discussed, especially of what was and was not acceptable, and this was not fully heeded, hence a ban. Which I believe now is expired anyways. A temp forumban from hotseats is still in effect and will likely stay in effect until further notice, or more like, it expires.


    Please remember it is not always, if ever, that specific people are talked about in relation to moderation actions done upon them, unless they specifically go to the tribunal with it. Given the situation though, on top of the fact I am sure it has been talked about offline of TWC by many already anyways, I am doing this to this extent.


    While anything final is again, not quite here, there will be changes, and you may see some of them sooner and some later, depending on how things go. Very likely the "Main" hotseats section will be moved as it's own subforum in here, if anything to help with cleaning some clutter as well as more easily defining local mod rights and sections overall. Important and general threads will be kept here in this forum for posting and reference as needed, but for the most part will not be a place for new threads or hotseats.


    Further restructure will likely not happen right away, especially if I feel more time is needed to gather more community feedback or anything else is going on. Right now, the moving of main to its own subforum is more aesthetic and organizational than anything. From what I have gathered so far, potential small changes to how GS runs hotseats, in terms of what it means for a hotseat being official and whatnot, as well as how regular members interact with that and/or create their own hotseats. Or if anything, at the very least, minor rules clarifications/updates.


    Again, I am still looking into things, and it is a lot to look into, and I still have three jobs and studies to attend to. PMs are the best way for me to stay as updated as possible so I can read emails of PMs ahead of being on my computer. I still ask that anyone with anything to say to any degree at all PM me about it.


    I can guarantee I will read everything, even if I do not respond right away, and take everything into consideration. If I had to give my impression of things now though, I am doubting that whatever happens is going to please everyone, and I hope you all realize that too. Though I will still strive for whatever the "perfect" solution conceivably could be regardless.


    One last time, just PM me.


    -Hader

  4. #4
    Hader's Avatar Things are very seldom what they seem. In my experience, they’re usually a damn sight worse.
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    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    I will open this up temporarily for anyone that wishes to make public statements or questions. I do still prefer you PM me to talk to me directly and more quickly, but will leave this open for a while before likely removing it before any final sort of statement if need be.

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    Imperator Majora's Avatar What's under your mask?
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    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    Structural questions - how will the new section be managed? Will gaming staff be chosen from current staff, or remaining players, or simply remain a sidethought of current staff as no dedicated staff exist for the time being? And then, when that is determined, will users have the general autonomy to create a hotseat, recruit for it, and operate it without issue?

    Further, as most of the hotseats that have moved to the new section have already moved well away from TWC, will they be archived? Isles of Chaos in particular comes to mind, as all players are now on another site, and there is no longer a reason for it to stay outside of the archive.

    And now for the suggestion; this section almost seems wasted when you have two perfectly viable places to put threads. First you have the stickied threads, which will always remain at the top. Then you have space below, which I think is an opportunity to expand in scope somewhat. The rest of the section could be used for general discussion, interest checks, and other topics that are relative to hotseating in general, as compared to cramming all discussions and statements to section-divided chats. Naturally with similar rules to the rest of the site.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    how will the new section be managed? Will gaming staff be chosen from current staff, or remaining players, or simply remain a sidethought of current staff
    The same way it's always been managed. The 'General' section (unless anyone's a better name) wont have a Lead until one proves themselves; otherwise there is nothing stopping any GS from helping there nor players proving themselves capable future GS in that area. A little something I've been saying for years. The future lays with new, not old, and I've been inclined for awhile now to look to future generations of staff.

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    Further, as most of the hotseats that have moved to the new section have already moved well away from TWC, will they be archived?
    Any games refusing to share codes so we might try and continue them will be archived as others have, the section largely starting anew. I haven't finished archiving.

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    And now for the suggestion; this section almost seems wasted
    We're not finished moving things quite yet. It'll have a number of threads for Intro, Guides, Lists, Medals, FAQ, General Chat, Etc

    I'm sure Hader will add anything I don't quite have the time to go in-depth on, but above is the gist. The restructure should be 'finished' in a day or two.
    Last edited by SoulGamesInc; January 23, 2018 at 01:22 PM. Reason: kept it brief so Haders still something to talk about :P

  7. #7
    Hader's Avatar Things are very seldom what they seem. In my experience, they’re usually a damn sight worse.
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    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    Structural questions - how will the new section be managed? Will gaming staff be chosen from current staff, or remaining players, or simply remain a sidethought of current staff as no dedicated staff exist for the time being? And then, when that is determined, will users have the general autonomy to create a hotseat, recruit for it, and operate it without issue?

    Further, as most of the hotseats that have moved to the new section have already moved well away from TWC, will they be archived? Isles of Chaos in particular comes to mind, as all players are now on another site, and there is no longer a reason for it to stay outside of the archive.

    And now for the suggestion; this section almost seems wasted when you have two perfectly viable places to put threads. First you have the stickied threads, which will always remain at the top. Then you have space below, which I think is an opportunity to expand in scope somewhat. The rest of the section could be used for general discussion, interest checks, and other topics that are relative to hotseating in general, as compared to cramming all discussions and statements to section-divided chats. Naturally with similar rules to the rest of the site.
    I'll likely be deferring to current staff on specifics for hotseats that exists or may stop. If anyone has issues with specifics on that regard they are still free to PM me, but otherwise it is best I don't get that involved in something I have no prior involvement or experience in.

    What was formerly the main section, speaking strictly in terms of forum space, is going to exist no matter what; the move of Main to its own subforum and rename to General hotseats is organizational for its sake first. There is no way to really get rid of the forum space here in this main forum without turning it into a category, which is just not going to work as nicely techincally speaking. So that space can be used instead for the most general hotseating threads, with no specific ties to any one section. There won't be any penalty for posting in that area, aside from normal forum rules that apply, but hotseats won't be held there, only general discussion, brainstorming, etc., nonspecific to anything the subforums cover will be allowed.

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    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Hader View Post
    What was formerly the main section, speaking strictly in terms of forum space, is going to exist no matter what; the move of Main to its own subforum and rename to General hotseats is organizational for its sake first. There is no way to really get rid of the forum space here in this main forum without turning it into a category, which is just not going to work as nicely techincally speaking. So that space can be used instead for the most general hotseating threads, with no specific ties to any one section. There won't be any penalty for posting in that area, aside from normal forum rules that apply, but hotseats won't be held there, only general discussion, brainstorming, etc., nonspecific to anything the subforums cover will be allowed.
    Sounds good.

  9. #9
    Hader's Avatar Things are very seldom what they seem. In my experience, they’re usually a damn sight worse.
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    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    Just to post another reminder to everyone; Please, PM me.

    Not just because with my schedule it's going to be easier for me, but I'm going to have a much easier time addressing what needs addressing and getting a clearer picture if individuals PM me. I realize this is inviting a potential wave of inbox spam, but that's better in the long run for sorting things out. And hopefully I can then call this my final addendum to this announcement and be more well on with anything else that needs doing to hopefully make everyone content again.

    I also just really wanted to post something in red again. I'm a big fan of red.

  10. #10
    Matto16's Avatar Steward of Middle Earth
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    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    I won't write much here, everthing I wanted to say I already said in PM and that should be enough. I'm still feeling connected with this community which is why it saddens me to see such things happening because however you look on it it remains the fact that it hurted the hotseat community.

    My hope remains that the best solution shall be found which will prevent similar things to happening again in the future. I'm sure that with right measures similar scenarions can be prevented before escalating any further.
    TATW HS Community Award

  11. #11
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    About time this nonsense is made public Hader (The last 2 years of it), tis spilling over to any section possible they can grab their hands on. Their demands should also be made public, anything thats been told to everyone but you, is that they want Jadli to be unbanned. Considering the large list of things people provided me on discord of those who have left, was easily argued as something that was never enforced or flat out lies, from the at the time default section staff.

    Issue is easily fixed, by allowing an ease on SND, which everyone wants at this point, so we can actually state the actions of those who have been banned and kicked from GS, currently, Jadli in their eyes is a Martyr, when all of this could of simply been handled 8 months ago when Gaming Staff voted in a majority to deal with it.
    Last edited by Parafix; February 14, 2018 at 12:27 AM.

  12. #12
    Hannibal2001's Avatar Simply Barbaric
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    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    About time this nonsense is made public Hader (The last 2 years of it), tis spilling over to any section possible they can grab their hands on. Their demands should also be made public, anything thats been told to everyone but you, is that they want Jadli to be unbanned.
    Perhaps the responses that were given to them after they announced their leaving was the last straw. "Purging the section" was a phrase that was commonly used off site by some parrots during those days, who still haunt us to this day . Those parrots who spread this "Section racism" should also be dealt with, since this is one community, same group of people .

    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    was easily argued as something that was never enforced or flat out lies, from the at the time default section staff
    Sighs, I'm not even gonna bother responding to that .

    Quote Originally Posted by Parafix View Post
    Jadli in their eyes is a Martyr,
    And who are you to speak for them? My goodness
    Last edited by Hannibal2001; February 14, 2018 at 01:12 PM.

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    Imperator Majora's Avatar What's under your mask?
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    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    I've been an advocate of further disclosure in the first place. The issues will continue and people will be dug into their camps so long as information is withheld.

  14. #14
    Riverknight's Avatar Last of the Romans
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    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    Let the process play out; these guys have dealt with things like this before.

  15. #15
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    With Hader about to essentially turn GS into a meaningless title, and ignoring the entirety of the GS team on a handful of matters, to appeal to the whims of those who have left the community following an individual who's done nothing but what was predicted by Dux, Joerock, Soul, Myself and Dragon 2 years ago when all agreeing Jadli was an issue.

    With this, no different to my resignation of Gaming Staff 8 months ago, i refuse to partake in something that goes against every form of standard that of which is expected. All future projects planned for Westeros i have been designing, shall be pulled. Future mods / maps that where being designed for hotseating, will be now focused on single player. Awards that i have payed for will no longer be granted by myself, those who have won or will win can take their prizes up with the Gaming Staff Hex. Any rule system i have put in place, that states permission use, shall not be granted.

    Anyone wanting full details, on the entire situation, of which we have been heavily silenced on, will be brought to light off site. Before this post is deleted, i will be copying to the relevant channels of which the majority of the hotseaters have access too.

    To those individuals that wanted to cause as much harm for their childish, petty, pathetic little ego's, congratulations, you win, now kindly leave my life alone.

    I will still be hosting private games, for those who are interested, can message me and will be provided the relevant information if you are welcome.
    Last edited by Parafix; February 25, 2018 at 03:37 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Another GS Announcement/Thing

    I cannot continue to work under these conditions. I've been Gaming Staff for 4-5 long years (it feels like 20) and handled more private and public drama in the role than any member of Gaming Staff was ever dealt with in the staffs history, all with a level head meditating this and that while organizing games, mods, events, etc etc for the community. In my years as Staff I've seen and done more than my share to help Hotseating evolve and improve with the help of other Staff and overall the last years have been a great success. I had some great times and some extremely stressful ones but I don't regret the years I've put into the community.

    I'll not bore anyone with the total history of my service (alot of it behind SnD/Staff Non-Disclosure) but decisive to say I have decided it's past time I retire.

    The last months have only gotten more and more stressful; on and offline. I am physically tired of dealing with the stress of it all. I work tirelessly as Staff, and these last months have received an unhealthy amount of stress. I've gotten barely any sleep these past weeks because my mind is occupied with TWC. I am tired. It's been years, and I am both physically and emotionally tired. I can only stress so much before I ask myself... why? It pains me to think on and I cant help but worry I'd have failed the community by not being strong enough to keep suffering through it... but there has to be a line somewhere. If not then it wouldn't shock me if I was found dead of a heart attack one day, with the amount I stress and worry about this community. There MUST be a line.
    It's with sincere regret and a heavy heart that I draw that line here.

    I wish the remaining GS good fortune in the wars to come.

    Regards
    - Soul



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