Painful Lessons

[TacticalSkirmish]

Ok here is my sorry little story. Instead of moving onto a short Scotland campaign right away, last night I decided to continue with England, which I had just completed a couple nights ago as my first short campaign. I was thinking about enjoying a long campaign as I really liked the troop selection. Well that didn't happen.

So there I was, having destroyed the Scots and French, feeling all global domination British style, when it occurred to me that the Papal States were in my way to sweeping further east. Hey that little guy in white won't be too tough, right? Besides I was just excommunicated because of wiping out France. What's the harm, eh mates?

Well I only had 1 full stack (elite) army and 1 smaller, secondary army at my disposal. After quickly taking Paris from the Papal States, in walked 5+ full stack armies of quality troops courtesy of the Pope. They quickly divided my empire in half taking several newly acquired settlements. I later quickly lost several castles as I painfully learned my mistake of not keeping sufficient garrison to man the towers (thought they worked on their own like RTW ).

In the end I was left wondering where is the passive AI? Or the inability of the AI to launch a decent siege attack? 'Cause the Papal States just steamrolled over my empire, tore down castle walls, and was just rather nasty to my women folk.

So for the first time (I think) I abandon this campaign. Discouragement and frustration of my lack of understanding (i.e., don't attack the Pope and put proper garrisons in castles) was too overwhelming.

With the cleansing feeling that the delete key brings I moved into my Scotland campaign. I left it last night about 50 turns completed. I have conquered the British Isles and Caen. The British only have 1-2 settlements left, and are fighting with my French allies. I have been the 1st ranked faction with regards to finances for most of this campaign, and have lots of allies and trade agreements. I am finally using my merchants and priests well.

Currently building my military infrastructure at Caen's castle to gain access to better Scottish units. I guess the French will be next on the menu. However, I will not be attacking the Papal States this time around.

Tact – “got owned by the Pope” – S!

[smitty]

Though I have yet to try out the Lands to Conquer mod, it appears that it changes the Pope's military might and aggressiveness to reflect a more sensible Papal State. I believe it changes the Pope to only exist in Rome, and whenever he encounters military problems or something he calls in the aid of all of the Italian factions to back him up. It makes a lot more sense to me IMO because the idea of a Pope sending personalized Italian armies to conquer Europe doesn't make sense. That's what all of the Catholic nations are for! The Pope already has his lackeys, and a nation with full favor from the Pope sure feels like a Papal State army simply hailing from the correct land. Does that make sense? Anyway download that mod and try it out, I don't think you'll have too much problem with the Papal States attacking you, but you might with the other catholic nations :wink:

[CzarKirk]

I don't have a problem with the Pope trying to claim lands in Italy, but it does get a bit silly when he takes over the world.

[Metellus]

Yeah I am currently playing a campaign as English H/H like the OP I continued from a short campaign achieved. At one stage I assassinated a Danish pope then tried the Portuguese one that got elected right after (both factions being very much against me). This assassination attempt failed visibly with the assassin crying out 'England!' under torture. From that moment on the Papacy made it a personal vendetta to exterminate me (after first excommunicating me, I laughed out loud as I could just imagine the Pope condemning England as a 'hive of scum and villainy led by Satan himself!').
Well they attacked by land, sent Inquisitors, attacked by sea, etc. It must have gone on for at least 50 turns. I was already in a dominant position so I used assassins against Inquisitors, tried futilely to assassinate new Popes (it seemed all the catholic factions were hellbent on vengeance) and showed the Papacy the narrow side of a broadsword. Eventually got dominance over the Cardinals College and when at last I got my candidate as Pope (Pope Zappa I might add!), I really did breathe a sigh of relief, papal hostility evaporated like morning mist. Now they all stand in line, only the Danes and Venetians are left to challenge my Catholic goodness. I have been awarding lands I have conquered to the Papacy knowing that its better to let them live and flourish (and particularly since my current Pope, Zappa's successor, is only 33 years old), as well as buttress me against the Mongols. In short no need to try and squash the papacy, its too time consuming and painful. Rather just own them. Oh, and they only really attempt to dominate those factions who have been excommed, at least in my games thus far.

[smitty]

Actually you can't eliminate the Papacy anyway, as long as there are Catholic nations alive the Pope will take one of their regions away. I'm not sure what happens when you are the only remaining Catholic region though.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

I learned the hard way that jannisary musketeers don't shoot effectively at the enemy when standing on walls. too bad I replaced all archer garrisons by these guys