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Thread: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

  1. #21

    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    I'd imagine this would run right into moderation decisions, so it could either go on in PM
    I cannot discuss Hex or Moderation in any explicit detail be in here, pm or offsite I'm afraid. The HS series in question "Newbloods" is a cornerstone of Gaming Staffs lineup of hosted events. I should know, as I coined the term and created the first installation of it's kind. Main's was not created by Me but is an official series and by regulation cannot be ran by non-staff. I think that a fairly straight forward rule. The attempted host was welcomed to create what could've easily been exactly the same game under a different name, just without the conflict of staff material. We don't "own" mods. He and anyone is free to host any game with any mods. The official series and it's rewards tho are Staff jurisdiction.

    Again I am far from unanswerable with Hex above me as Director on a great many things. Me nor Hex made decisions lightly or without just cause. I have only done my job, down to the letter.

  2. #22
    Gimli's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    I've been a member of this community for eight years now. Obviously I had stretches where i was inactive. Over my eight year tenure here, I've seen hundreds of people come and go as they please. All of them with different reasons of why they are leaving. This community has a whole has had it's up's and down's, and each time has transitioned into a new generation of players as you could say. Each section has it's peak of activity, in which it thrived, however, obviously these wouldn't last and slowly they'd go back into a recession. There have numerous occasions in the past where players have attempted to start their own brand of hotseating in other forums, and each time it has eventually failed causing people to scurry back to Total War Center.

    Right now, from what I've seen this is merely people taking extreme measures to protest their displeasure of the current atmosphere, gameplay, ect...This isn't a cold war where people have to choose sides. You can play where you wish, nobody is forcing you to stay here, nor is nobody forcing you to play on Jadli's forum. Thing's are being blown out of proportion, and the acts of the few have had a domino effect compelling people to follow thinking this is the end of TWC Hotseating. It can't be stressed enough that this community will endure like it always has and eventually will attract a new generation of players.

    People are saying they are unhappy with how things are run, but yet i have failed to see a single post saying why they are unhappy and what needs to be changed to resolve the current situation. For those saying Soul doesn't listen, well he's here now, he is listening, you have his attention use it.

    Let's turn this whole situation into a positive in which it benefits all the parties involved, including the TWC Hotseating Community. Numerous members have made grand claims of how they love this site, they love the community, well, now is you're time to act, to have a voice that is being heard where you can directly say what is wrong and what needs to be changed. Instead of trying to tear down the community work together to bring it back up.

    ~~~~

    Soul, this is a good time to restructure, innovate, and remodel the entire hotseating community as a whole in which it has all the tools necessary to return to a golden age.
    Last edited by Gimli; January 12, 2018 at 12:25 PM.

  3. #23
    Dismounted Feudal Knight's Avatar my horse for a unicode
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    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulGamesInc View Post
    I cannot discuss Hex or Moderation in any explicit detail be in here, pm or offsite I'm afraid. The HS series in question "Newbloods" is a cornerstone of Gaming Staffs lineup of hosted events. I should know, as I coined the term and created the first installation of it's kind. Main's was not created by Me but is an official series and by regulation cannot be ran by non-staff. I think that a fairly straight forward rule. The attempted host was welcomed to create what could've easily been exactly the same game under a different name, just without the conflict of staff material. We don't "own" mods. He and anyone is free to host any game with any mods. The official series and it's rewards tho are Staff jurisdiction. Again I am far from unanswerable with Hex above me as Director on a great many things. Me nor Hex made decisions lightly or without just cause. I have only done my job, down to the letter.
    Not much more I can do here, then. If you want to fill me in more, or chat or whatever I'm open to PM or discord.
    With great power, comes great chonky dragons to feed enemies of the state. --Targaryens?
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  4. #24
    Parafix's Avatar I have this stick...
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    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    I'm agreeing with Gimli, bloody hell it is the end times...

  5. #25

    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by saleska2 View Post
    Im afraid to tell you that not everything is about you, its about the site and its state so when talking I talk about TWC as a whole, not you.
    By your logic you'd rather talk to an echo chamber and not talk to staff? I fail to grasp that. Unless you do not in fact desire a constructive discussion, but instead wish to vent frustrations and achieve nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by joerock22 View Post
    Take it from me, who has been privy to most of the conflict, but more as a third-party observer than an active participant on one side or the other.
    Joe's statement can be taken as easily the most level-headed chap I've known over the years. He is as impartial as you can get, for those few believing we "hate" anyone. That isn't the case. We do our jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimli View Post
    i have failed to see a single post saying why they are unhappy and what needs to be changed to resolve the current situation. Instead of trying to tear down the community work together to bring it back up. Soul, this is a good time to restructure, innovate, and remodel the entire hotseating community as a whole in which it has all the tools necessary to return to a golden age.
    Quite. And I entirely agree with you. I am here, listening, perfectly willing to have a long civil discussion about any changes or improvements anyone wishes to suggest. The 'Newbloods' matter and Moderation/Hex decisions cannot and will not be undecided. I can only assure people that nothing is done rashly or without due evidence and consideration. To innovate is always the goal. I am and always have been open to player opinion.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulGamesInc View Post
    By your logic you'd rather talk to an echo chamber and not talk to staff? I fail to grasp that. Unless you do not in fact desire a constructive discussion, but instead wish to vent frustrations and achieve nothing.
    ...? I can talk to you and have the subject about something not you?

    1. I put down a list of statements that I think make TWC unhealthy
    2. You take every single statement personally, as if they are all aimed at you and claiming as if they are.
    3. I say they are not, they are about TWC, not just you.
    4. Now im better off talking to an echo chamber because...? If the conversation is about TWC, how can I not talk to you? You are the GS overseer and as you said yourself, you represent all of GS. However, when in a conversation in a thread about TWC, all subjects are directly aimed at you why again? How come I cant talk about something that isnt related to you but is related to TWC again?


    Im supposed to have a constructive discussion with someone who just yells im wrong about everything I stated for no reason... This truly is a waste of time like this.

  7. #27
    Mergor's Avatar T H E | G O R
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    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    I'll put forward a possible resolution to the current situation:

    Unban Jadli, let us hear his side publicly, and react to what he says. Currently you are talking about him like everything he says is a lie which is simply not true.

    Jadli is one of the (If not THE) figurehead of main. If he remains banned, the playerbase that respects him and enjoys his HS-s will follow him to his new forum because they would like to play in his hotseats.

  8. #28
    ArBo's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    I agree with Mergor. Even if you're completely in the right, at least make an effort to keep the community together. If you do nothing to resolve this many players will leave, period.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by saleska2 View Post
    1: I put down a list of statements that I think make TWC unhealthy 2: You take every single statement personally. 3: I say they are not, they are about TWC, not just you. 4: Now im better off talking to an echo chamber because...? If the conversation is about TWC, how can I not talk to you? You are the GS overseer and as you said yourself, you represent all of GS.
    1: A list that is half reliant on evidence you refuse to present publicly, the other half small personal preferences/grievances that you haven't expanded upon or offered solutions. Sharing is caring. 2: This thread is designed to ask Me questions, so naturally I answer. 3: They are about Twc and I represent that, inside a thread designed to address concerns. 4: Here you seem to do a U-turn. You implied you didn't want to talk to Me now say "how can I not talk to you" as if I'm saying you shouldn't talk to me, despite me clearly inviting people to talk to me on the OP and multiple posts. Again I question your desire to 'talk' and invite you to provide this supposed evidence publicly.

    Quote Originally Posted by saleska2 View Post
    Im supposed to have a constructive discussion with someone who just yells im wrong about everything I stated for no reason
    I haven't been anything but civil. You claim evidence. I ask you provide it out of the shadows, otherwise it's highly suspicious even if I wasn't already privy to all the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mergor View Post
    If he remains banned, the playerbase that respects him and enjoys his HS-s will follow him to his new forum
    The decisions are not made without a mountain of hard evidence. Those decisions will not be unmade because any individual causes a raucous, so I can only assure people that nothing is done without cause. As stated on the OP if a few players decide to leave our fair site blindly following their messiah to the promised land at the end of the day people are free to go where they please and think for themselves. They'll be welcome to return.

    I can do nothing but offer a stage to combat otherwise unchallenged claims. We make no decisions without proper oversight, my bosses doing nothing without just cause.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    Idk. This is truly pointless. You take my claims personal as if you did everything I wrote. I have no problem showing everything in PM because it will be a huge crappy show here and irrelevant discussions will start. Some people have already taken their time to PM me, they must be super exhausted now. Its not worth it to start a discussion with one not willing to send a PM or get through steam or discord. Aside from that I have no intention of trying to buy people in, they can play wherever they want but as I can see it there is no effort being done to fix any potential problems thus far so ill leave this discussion to others as I doubt we can ever come in agreement.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by ArBo View Post
    I agree with Mergor. Even if you're completely in the right, at least make an effort to keep the community together. If you do nothing to resolve this many players will leave, period.
    I also agree because keeping community together should be main goal now and that could be huge step to fix the problems.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by saleska2 View Post
    Its not worth it to start a discussion with one not willing to send a PM
    I'm hearing a lot of "I wont share the evidence publicly" and poor excuses as to why. It's almost as if your afraid I'll dismantle it. Strange.

  13. #33
    Mergor's Avatar T H E | G O R
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    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    Jadli did what he did at the end because a choice against him has been already made. If it's already all over, having the mentality to just don't care about the rules is justifiable in his case. So I think the ban can, and will have to be reversed. Again, Jadli is a figurehead of main, this needs to be done to have a chance of reconlitiation.

    By the way Soul, one can say that you don't PM saleska for the evidence either. It's almost as if your afraid that he'll be right. Strange.
    Last edited by Mergor; January 12, 2018 at 01:58 PM. Reason: Was misinformed

  14. #34
    ArBo's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    Soul's objections to PMing Sal and at least looking at his claimed evidence is really nothing more than the equivalent of a child closing his ears with his hands and shouting "I can't hear you!".

    I propose that, among other changes to be negotiated, Main (Default, as Para kindly pointed out to me) and Westeros be completely separated, without one operating under another and with the least possible amount of contact between the leaderships, who clearly can't stand one another. Principles and personal vendettas aside, this honestly seems to me like the only long-term solution of keeping the community together.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Mergor View Post
    one can say that you don't PM saleska for the evidence either
    This is a public discussion thread. If posting his evidence would win his argument... why hesitate?

    Note - The matter of reverting a Hex decision is NOT up for debate. It's not changing. I suggest everyone accept this fact and processed to offer constructive ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by ArBo View Post
    I propose that, among other changes to be negotiated, Main and Westeros be completely separated
    ^ This (although I disagree) is a constructive idea, that at least can be debated. The separation of sections isn't a solution to any problems. It's only slightly less damaging than any individuals attempt to separate whole forums and would solve nothing of any issues (that still haven't actually been clearly specified btw) anyone may have. I'd still like to hear what people suggest in way of constructive improvements. Separating isn't improving.

  16. #36
    Mergor's Avatar T H E | G O R
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    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    You asked for ideas Soul, we gave you two. Unban Jadli, and the separation of main and westeros. These two can even be called cornerstones of our argument and where we want to develop.

    If TWC flat out refuses to even think about reverting an unpopular decision made by the Hex, there will be no advancements. Now, there should be no such thing as "not up for debate".

    If you are not willing to change things you personally don't like or don't agree with by the community's request, then you don't really want to make a compromise, you just want to keep everything as it is, which will not work.

  17. #37
    Dismounted Feudal Knight's Avatar my horse for a unicode
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    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    It's not particularly helpful when one side refuses to provide anything and wonders if the other side is scared, while the other side refuses to poke and wonders if the first side is scared.


    And as for unbans contributing to debate, I think I'll mention what I mentioned on discord. Unban advocacy is best seen here...
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...and-Discussion
    With great power, comes great chonky dragons to feed enemies of the state. --Targaryens?
    Spoiler for wait what dragons?



  18. #38
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    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulGamesInc View Post
    Note - The matter of reverting a Hex decision is NOT up for debate. It's not changing. I suggest everyone accept this fact and processed to offer constructive ideas
    If we're living through Ragnarok, it seems like everything should be up for debate.

    I get that you strongly feel that he was banned with "just cause" (since he's not here, it's probably OK to share the details?). However, even if he was (which is entirely plausible), that doesn't mean upholding the ban is the right thing to do.

    To go back to history again, Nelson Mandela blew up enough stuff that the South African government had more than enough "just cause" to toss him in prison. However, that didn't change the fact that he still had a bunch of good ideas, and the stuff he was fighting against needed to be changed. Yes, he'd done some bad stuff, and taken in isolation he probably deserved prison time. But only by bringing him into the discussion could reconciliation take place.

    (NOTE: I'm not necessarily saying that Jadli is Mandela. Just making a point about the importance of reconciliation and working with people who you feel are in the wrong.)

    EDIT: I like to think I'm on reasonably good(ish) terms with all parties, I've barely been involved in Hotseats for awhile, I'm pretty good at keeping things calm and civil, and I'm willing to change my mind and admit that I'm wrong. If you'd like me to serve as a go-between in this I'd be happy to. Or somebody else can . I just suspect that, at this point, any talks between the two parties won't go well.
    Last edited by AdmiralThrawn; January 12, 2018 at 03:07 PM.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    Hex decisions are NOT up for debate and I cannot discuss them explicitly. That is final. We are not separating the sections either as that's no solution to anything. I've yet to hear any actually ideas for improvements. Rules? Admins? Games? The continued repeating of already addressed statements is not going to progress anything and threats of "do X or we'll leave" are certainly not going to get you anywhere with Me or anyone else.

    Again, this thread is for constructive ideas and improvements. It's not a forum for anyone to issue threats. If you've nothing to say but "Undo X" then your not contributing.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdmiralThrawn View Post
    since he's not here, it's probably OK to share the details?
    Not how it works I'm afraid. I'm not allowed to discuss Hex/Moderation nor internal Staff matters after a certain point. Thus that topic is a dead end. It wont be changed here.

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    ^ Thank you Commodus, that 'matter' is not for debate here. I will view continuation of that matter as off-topic and derailing. Please focus on things that we can actually debate/discuss.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

    You saying separation is no solution to anything doesn't have the slightest shred of relevance, it's one of our demands, that doesn't need your approval but your acceptance.

    Unbanning is very much not off-topic here. You wanted suggestions. You wanted to hear what we wanted. You don't get to pick and choose what comes out of that.

    "Constructive" has become a synonym to "something Soul isn't too opposed to", which won't get us anywhere. You have to stop treating this thread as if you decide where it comes from, what we say and what comes out of it, or you'll never get a solution to this problem. And if you don't, I'll be very surprised to see even one Main section hotseat up and running for a very long time.

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